China Warns US of "Forceful Measures" if Nancy Pelosi Visits Taiwan

globalhawk

HR Heisman
Dec 16, 2003
5,314
5,760
113
I mean there is a populist movement going on since at least trump to bring business back to America. Covid showed why we need to do this as well and kept that populist movement chugging along. The administration just passed the CHIPs bill for this very reason. It’s slow moving but there is process being made
I am in agreement with bringing back crucial products back home. It will definitely be a long process.
 

jamesvanderwulf

HR Legend
Nov 27, 2015
23,671
25,705
113
People's Republic of Johnson County
Very long term and expensive. There are many who will shit their pants because things will cost a lot more. That's the point.

There are alternatives that cost more. What are you not understanding?
That's why we should buy from Wal-Mart rather than the local mom/pop stores, right? I'm sure you talk out of the other side of your mouth when that's the case...
 

RileyHawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2002
35,198
20,696
113
That's why we should buy from Wal-Mart rather than the local mom/pop stores, right? I'm sure you talk out of the other side of your mouth when that's the case...
WTF are you talking about? I've said bringing manufacturing back to America or NA like some are talking about will be expensive. And it will. Those of you doing contortions don't want to acknowledge that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: littlez

Uniformed_ReRe

Scout Team
Nov 5, 2011
89
142
33
Not cool....

China signaled on Wednesday it plans to dramatically escalate military provocations aimed at Taiwan to include flying missiles over it for the first time, a clear sign that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s departure from visiting the island nation marks not the end of a burgeoning standoff with the U.S. but rather the beginning of one.




Some kind of tantrum was the expected response from China. No one will be impressed by the fact that they can shoot a missile over an island located right off their coast.

This is about Xi trying to save face in the esteem of the inner party. China erred bigly by making dramatic threats and setting themselves up to be humiliated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HawkRCID

gonegolfing

HR Legend
Gold Member
Jan 6, 2009
14,747
12,336
113
China's bluff got called, and now they look like typical communist pussies.

Russia's military has proven to be an absolute joke. No doubt China's is more effective than Putin's, but they don't know how much more effective especially against western power so are in a conundrum.
 

Hawkfan_08

HR Legend
Nov 9, 2002
18,666
14,121
113
North Liberty
WTF are you talking about? I've said bringing manufacturing back to America or NA like some are talking about will be expensive. And it will. Those of you doing contortions don't want to acknowledge that.

I am all for paying more. I am not wealthy but it is what is best for people. It will cut down on reckless spending by our citizens which is best for... everything? A consumer culture is great but we have gone overboard to get us in this mess.
 

seminole97

HR Legend
Jun 14, 2005
17,635
17,908
113
Every populist (GOP) on this board was against the TPP. Seems like a pretty smart plan now.
The U.S. International Trade Commission (USITC) has estimated that the TPP would bring modest overall benefits to the U.S. economy once implemented, slightly increasing both output (0.15%) and employment (0.07%) above a baseline scenario without the agreement. According to the USITC study, most agriculture and services sectors would see expansions, while some manufacturing and natural resources sectors would be expected to contract relative to baseline projections as resources shifted within the U.S. economy

When your agreement is 5,000 pages long it isn't describing 'free' trade. It's laying out highly detailed plans for governments to manage trade.
But 'free' trade is a much quicker and easier sell than '5,000 pages of trade restrictions and rules', even if it is a tad disingenuous.
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 13, 2006
24,951
32,865
113
AIPEI, Aug 3 (Reuters) - Taiwan scrambled jets on Wednesday to warn away 27 Chinese aircraft in its air defence zone, the island's defence ministry said, adding that 22 of them crossed the median line separating the self-ruled island from China amid rising tensions.


 

RileyHawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2002
35,198
20,696
113
The U.S. International Trade Commission (USITC) has estimated that the TPP would bring modest overall benefits to the U.S. economy once implemented, slightly increasing both output (0.15%) and employment (0.07%) above a baseline scenario without the agreement. According to the USITC study, most agriculture and services sectors would see expansions, while some manufacturing and natural resources sectors would be expected to contract relative to baseline projections as resources shifted within the U.S. economy

When your agreement is 5,000 pages long it isn't describing 'free' trade. It's laying out highly detailed plans for governments to manage trade.
But 'free' trade is a much quicker and easier sell than '5,000 pages of trade restrictions and rules', even if it is a tad disingenuous.
It's comical that you are suggesting something needs to be more concise. Complete lack of self awareness.
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 13, 2006
24,951
32,865
113
Taiwan left holding the bag after the visit....

I support Pelosi visiting Taiwan. I just hope we follow through with some massive arms deliveries to Taiwan.....they'll pay for them so it's not charity.

Lift the restrictions on arms sales. If we've learned anything from Ukraine it's that restricting arms sales to appease Russia or in this case China....doesn't work.
 

goldmom

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
19,923
23,261
113
The missiles fired by China today are more “puffery” but I for one have little doubt that they may actually try something before US elections in 2024. It makes sense from their perspective.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawkfan_08

binsfeldcyhawk2

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 13, 2006
24,951
32,865
113
The missiles fired by China today are more “puffery” but I for one have little doubt that they may actually try something before US elections in 2024. It makes sense from their perspective.
China has been building towards an invasion of Taiwan for a long time...it's coming which is why taking restrictions off arms deliveries is so important.

China has been building up their Naval Capabilities for basically the last 20 years...basically the last piece of the puzzle is Amphibious Assault ships which China has been bringing online the last couple years...

We need to get serious about lifting arms sales restrictions on Taiwan NOW........China is probably close to being ready to go.

The more immediate problem is Taiwan. The Taiwanese may not have enough modern ships and anti-ship weaponry to stop an amphibious landing, especially if it is supported by a PLAN carrier battle group and the landing zone is prepped by bombers and fighters firing stand-off cruise missiles and other precision-guided weaponry.

China clearly has the upper hand in amphibious warfare with these ships. The marines will be ready to fight. Transport helicopters can resupply troops on shore after they create a beachhead, and the attack helicopters can offer close air support. The Chinese shipbuilders can build amphibious ships faster than the Taiwanese can produce their smaller corvettes. It is looking like an amphibious landing by China against Taiwan would be an unfair fight.


 

seminole97

HR Legend
Jun 14, 2005
17,635
17,908
113
It's comical that you are suggesting something needs to be more concise. Complete lack of self awareness.
I’m not arguing it should be concise, I’m pointing out it’s a ‘managed trade agreement’, not a ‘free trade agreement’.

But it’s easier to argue the benefits of free trade than discuss what restrictions and stipulations they spend 5,000 pages detailing.

Again, it’s not a ‘free trade’ agreement. That’s just spin/marketing/propaganda.
 

HawkAttackDial911

HR Heisman
Feb 1, 2012
7,037
6,229
113
Your Mom's House
China has been building towards an invasion of Taiwan for a long time...it's coming which is why taking restrictions off arms deliveries is so important.

China has been building up their Naval Capabilities for basically the last 20 years...basically the last piece of the puzzle is Amphibious Assault ships which China has been bringing online the last couple years...

We need to get serious about lifting arms sales restrictions on Taiwan NOW........China is probably close to being ready to go.

The more immediate problem is Taiwan. The Taiwanese may not have enough modern ships and anti-ship weaponry to stop an amphibious landing, especially if it is supported by a PLAN carrier battle group and the landing zone is prepped by bombers and fighters firing stand-off cruise missiles and other precision-guided weaponry.

China clearly has the upper hand in amphibious warfare with these ships. The marines will be ready to fight. Transport helicopters can resupply troops on shore after they create a beachhead, and the attack helicopters can offer close air support. The Chinese shipbuilders can build amphibious ships faster than the Taiwanese can produce their smaller corvettes. It is looking like an amphibious landing by China against Taiwan would be an unfair fight.



I haven't read this thread but I thought it was pretty clear China could take Taiwan for awhile now. The problem is that 80% of the population do not want to be under China's rule. China will have to go scorched earth to take and then maintain control. There would be a ton of casualties, cost lots of money, and may not be much left when done. It could be a pyrrhic victory.
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 13, 2006
24,951
32,865
113
I haven't read this thread but I thought it was pretty clear China could take Taiwan for awhile now. The problem is that 80% of the population do not want to be under China's rule. China will have to go scorched earth to take and then maintain control. There would be a ton of casualties, cost lots of money, and may not be much left when done. It could be a pyrrhic victory.
I think if China could...they would.

Taiwan isn't an easy target. They're pretty capable militarily but unfortunately we've limited arms sales over the years to appease China. Time for those restrictions to go away.

I think what you describe is why China is holding off....they want to get to a point where taking Taiwan won't incur catastrophic casualties.

If we don't arm Taiwan to the teeth (and Taiwan is willing to pay for it) the Chinese will get to that point sooner than later.

I keep bringing up Taiwan paying for the stuff because they do...they'd buy more if we let them. It's not something that would be at US taxpayer expense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: goldmom

Uniformed_ReRe

Scout Team
Nov 5, 2011
89
142
33
The missiles fired by China today are more “puffery” but I for one have little doubt that they may actually try something before US elections in 2024. It makes sense from their perspective.

It’s possible. But the cost-to-benefit ratio does not favor a serious attempt to forcibly take Taiwan.

China is more poweful than Russia, but they are also more vulnerable. Russia is energy independent and their small, isolated economy can be propped up for years by selling oil to non-Western-aligned countries.

The US can easily close the Strait of Malacca and choke off Chinese shipping elsewhere, which would wreck their export-dependent economy and leave them with about three months before they run out of oil. Subjugating Taiwan would probably take longer than three months.

Off course, Xi could still decide it's worth it.
 

Firekirknow

Scout Team
Aug 20, 2013
131
122
43
Won’t be nuclear annihilation. Either Pelosi won’t go, thus showing how weak the US is, or she does go, China fires at US planes, and the U.S. does not retaliate, showing weakness.

I don’t see any way America, with the leadership we have, comes out of this not looking like we caved to China. They are making a play to take over as the world’s leading Superpower. And they will win.

But I hope I’m wrong.
No need to hope. You’re always wrong
 

RileyHawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2002
35,198
20,696
113
I will guarantee I run a much larger business then you do. Not going to get into who has bigger knowledge of how business works. I'll leave it at that.
LOL. "My dick is bigger than your dick" only said by people with small dicks.

You're a complete tool. How big is "your" business?
 

kcnole63

HR All-State
Jan 11, 2021
645
844
93
Taiwan left holding the bag after the visit....

I support Pelosi visiting Taiwan. I just hope we follow through with some massive arms deliveries to Taiwan.....they'll pay for them so it's not charity.

Lift the restrictions on arms sales. If we've learned anything from Ukraine it's that restricting arms sales to appease Russia or in this case China....doesn't work.
Didn't Taiwan welcome her with open arms? I am sure that they knew what the repercussions could be and would have told Pelosi not to come if they didn't want her there. So far, it is a lot of show from China but no effects. China had to do something to somewhat save face. I will be surprised if there is anything else they do.
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 13, 2006
24,951
32,865
113
Didn't Taiwan welcome her with open arms? I am sure that they knew what the repercussions could be and would have told Pelosi not to come if they didn't want her there. So far, it is a lot of show from China but no effects. China had to do something to somewhat save face. I will be surprised if there is anything else they do.
What were they supposed to do…tell her not to come? They rely on the US for weapons and support v China.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: RileyHawk

Hoosierhawkeye

HR Legend
Sep 16, 2008
46,918
38,974
113
40
Are the forceful measures imminent?

See to me this part of being president would be very hard. I can be diplomatic for the most part until someone says something that you know they can't or won't really back up.

And then I just really really get tempted to mock them.
 

HawkRCID

HR All-American
Nov 7, 2018
4,271
8,154
113
Send a carrier group to the Taiwan strait and tell China to take a hike. I have serious doubts they actually want to commit economic suicide and do this….but if they do, then let’s get on with it.
 

RileyHawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2002
35,198
20,696
113
What? You think Taiwan should have said no to the visit?
WTF? You asked if Taiwan was supposed to tell her not to come - the answer is YES if they didn't want her to come. They did. They welcomed her. This isn't the US or Nancy Pelosi forcing themselves on Taiwan. That suggestion is absurd.
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 13, 2006
24,951
32,865
113
WTF? You asked if Taiwan was supposed to tell her not to come - the answer is YES if they didn't want her to come. They did. They welcomed her. This isn't the US or Nancy Pelosi forcing themselves on Taiwan. That suggestion is absurd.
You don’t understand the hierarchy of the relationship. US calls the shots….
 
  • Haha
Reactions: RileyHawk

desihawk

HR Heisman
Oct 1, 2002
8,207
7,672
113
so are we on course for a thread. called “This might be a little tougher than Xi thought...” or are things fizzling out?
:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: binsfeldcyhawk2

HawkRCID

HR All-American
Nov 7, 2018
4,271
8,154
113
so are we on course for a thread. called “This might be a little tougher than Xi thought...” or are things fizzling out?
:)
Well, Biden did say we would defend Taiwan, it is not Ukraine….so yeah I would say Xi would find it much tougher…