Chuck Long has a Lot to Say about the Iowa Offense

desihawk

HR Heisman
Oct 1, 2002
7,462
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While the overall message might be no different than what's been discussed for ages, it is good to see a couple details come out in terms of moving play-calling from both qb and center to the sidelines. that is something more concrete that has been divulged prior.
 

83Hawk

HR Legend
Sep 17, 2002
20,337
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I just shake my head at those bashing Chuck Long. No, he was not a very good head coach. But he was one of the greatest college QB’s of all time and definitely the best Iowa has ever had. He still knows more about football than anyone in this thread.

I’ll take his opinion over the yahoos on this board.
 

cmhawks99

HR Heisman
Jul 23, 2002
9,295
3,447
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I'll just address this because it is ridiculous to compare the era Chuck Long played in to today, or to make the connection that because Long was a good quarterback in college means he will make a good coach wherever he goes, and if he doesn't make a good coach (for whatever reasons), that somehow his football acumen is then diminished.

What Chuck Long spoke about, IMO, is pretty common sense. To put it succinctly, if you want to have a game manger at quarterback, you better have a solid running game and a dominant OL behind him (I would add accuracy is important too). I'm really not sure how that is controversial.

Now, do I understand the average fan doesn't get nuance or how real football is different than XBox 360? Absolutely. That still doesn't change the fact Iowa was at the bottom of college football in offense and that that result should be unacceptable.

All that’s true, but so is the fact that although Chuck “sees it“ he couldn’t coach it.

Not a direct one off analogy but to me it’s akin to my wife complaining about me leaving glasses and shoes laying around when I trip over her shoes nearly every other day and there’s probably seven glasses sitting on her bed stand…

Get my point awful damn convenient of Chuck to see what’s wrong kind of the same as all the rest of the fans… If it was easy they should go do it .
 
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cmhawks99

HR Heisman
Jul 23, 2002
9,295
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I just shake my head at those bashing Chuck Long. No, he was not a very good head coach. But he was one of the greatest college QB’s of all time and definitely the best Iowa has ever had. He still knows more about football than anyone in this thread.

I’ll take his opinion over the yahoos on this board.

One of the greatest college quarterbacks of all time… Seems pretty strong.

it’s funny I find the opposite thing comical…

The greatest quarterback in Iowa history still lost 13 games and tied one and scored under 10 points multiple multiple times and yet here we are bashing the current regime for not scoring enough pretty ironic really!
 

cmhawks99

HR Heisman
Jul 23, 2002
9,295
3,447
113
This makes me cautiously optimistic.

FTR, I wasn't talking about the fans who bitch just to bitch. I'm talking about the fans who (e.g.) voiced concerns even when Iowa was winning at the beginning of the year because of obvious red flags. My point was you can voice concerns and disagreements and still be a "good" fan. As I've always maintained, Kirk gets way more right than he ever does wrong, but that doesn't mean there aren't a couple things that are...perplexing and frustrating.

So, I think there can be a happy medium between being a homer and a complete Debbie Downer while understanding this level of football is extremely competitive, Iowa's opponents are trying to win just as much, and that it ain't easy.

You do know, not that you probably care 😊, but your line of reasoning/questioning is realistic and fair. But you are different than these others… you concede points and are understanding how difficult it is, these other cats are not!
 

kceasthawk

HR Legend
Nov 5, 2016
11,550
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I’m not saying he is totally wrong, but Chuck has an axe to grind with the current coaching staff. He seems to like to pylon.
This exactly. I take anything he said with a measured grain of salt.....
I just shake my head at those bashing Chuck Long. No, he was not a very good head coach. But he was one of the greatest college QB’s of all time and definitely the best Iowa has ever had. He still knows more about football than anyone in this thread.

I’ll take his opinion over the yahoos on this board.
Personally, I'm not bashing Long or what he accomplished at Iowa. Never said that. He was a very solid QB who had a GREAT team around him, which had a lot to do with his success. Thats a fact. I'd also agree he knows a great deal about the game. As others have posted however, his comments provide VERY little insight that most average fans don't already know, and most of its already been talked about here. As for the axe to grind, its also a fact that there's no love lost between KF and Long, and probably part of the reason he'll never be on the staff here. Should kind of make you think considering his status as a player here, his availability, and most of our staff is made up of ex Hawkeye players.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
40,693
68,954
113
Not a direct one off analogy but to me it’s akin to my wife complaining about me leaving glasses and shoes laying around when I trip over her shoes nearly every other day and there’s probably seven glasses sitting on her bed stand…
chicks-be-like-you-left-the-toilet-seat-p-made-35618943.png
 

83Hawk

HR Legend
Sep 17, 2002
20,337
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As others have posted however, his comments provide VERY little insight that most average fans don't already know, and most of its already been talked about here.
I guess that validates what many fans have been saying. Yet these same fans get berated by members of the Sunshine Club and other Superfans who think Kirk does no wrong.

Neither you or anyone else here can attribute Chuck’s motives as having “an ax to grind.” You don’t know that.
 

cmhawks99

HR Heisman
Jul 23, 2002
9,295
3,447
113
I guess that validates what many fans have been saying. Yet these same fans get berated by members of the Sunshine Club and other Superfans who think Kirk does no wrong.

Neither you or anyone else here can attribute Chuck’s motives as having “an ax to grind.” You don’t know that.

I know I’m on your ignore list, thankfully actually…

But for anyone else…that is utter bullshit. I have not seen one sunshine guy on here that says KF does no wrong. That’s just what these Jacklopes say because they can’t win any points in an actual debate.

It’s indicative of a very weak mind & cognitive thinking skills for the record.
 
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kceasthawk

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Nov 5, 2016
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I guess that validates what many fans have been saying. Yet these same fans get berated by members of the Sunshine Club and other Superfans who think Kirk does no wrong.

Neither you or anyone else here can attribute Chuck’s motives as having “an ax to grind.” You don’t know that.
I'm talking about his history with the current staff. There is most certainly an issue between Long and KF. His name is brought up often by people wanting him on the staff, and there's a reason it hasn't happened, and is never going to happen. Frankly I don't get the point of his podcasts or his being asked about the program. He's not an insider at this point, and most of what he says, (like this latest) is just basic stuff as we've discussed. He doesn't know anymore about whats going on inside Iowa football then the gentleman who run this board.
 

83Hawk

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Sep 17, 2002
20,337
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I'm talking about his history with the current staff. There is most certainly an issue between Long and KF. His name is brought up often by people wanting him on the staff, and there's a reason it hasn't happened, and is never going to happen. Frankly I don't get the point of his podcasts or his being asked about the program. He's not an insider at this point, and most of what he says, (like this latest) is just basic stuff as we've discussed. He doesn't know anymore about whats going on inside Iowa football then the gentleman who run this board.
My opinion would be that Chuck….thru his connections…knows as much or more than the gentleman who runs this board about what’s going on inside Iowa football. But neither of us really know for sure.

None of us know why Chuck isn’t on staff. Maybe he has no interest in it. And how do you know there is still an “issue” between him and Kirk? How do you know that any differences weren’t patched up years ago?

Pure speculation. You could be right, and you could just as easily be wrong.
 
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cmhawks99

HR Heisman
Jul 23, 2002
9,295
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Chuck has all the evidence on his side. He's talking about an offense that ranked #121 of 130 teams last season and that has been poor for years. Maybe some posters should stop being KF apologists. This offense is, to use an Iowa term, bullshit. And most people who know a lick about football recognize that reality. We don't like it, but we do recognize it, which is the first step in fixing it. KF and BF don't appear to be there yet . . . but then it's only been 23 years for KF.

And anyone who thinks the QB "competition" is fair hasn't paid attention the last couple of decades either. It's Petras or bust. And we know how that worked out last year. The defense won games. The special teams won games. The offense stunk it up. Plain and simple.
Chuck has all the evidence on his side. He's talking about an offense that ranked #121 of 130 teams last season and that has been poor for years. Maybe some posters should stop being KF apologists. This offense is, to use an Iowa term, bullshit. And most people who know a lick about football recognize that reality. We don't like it, but we do recognize it, which is the first step in fixing it. KF and BF don't appear to be there yet . . . but then it's only been 23 years for KF.

And anyone who thinks the QB "competition" is fair hasn't paid attention the last couple of decades either. It's Petras or bust. And we know how that worked out last year. The defense won games. The special teams won games. The offense stunk it up. Plain and simple.
@

@FWIW4922463

Nothing eh…… not willing to talk about all these poor quarterback decisions so people can come in and correct you?
 

BigOHawk

HR All-American
Oct 27, 2001
3,499
4,035
113
Omaha, NE
While the overall message might be no different than what's been discussed for ages, it is good to see a couple details come out in terms of moving play-calling from both qb and center to the sidelines. that is something more concrete that has been divulged prior.
Interesting. So are going to 'line up,' then everyone look over to the side at 5 random people holding memes and logos to send in the play? Always seemed like a circus to me and why isn't that a false start on the OL who are set then stand up or rock back while looking over there too?
 

ghostOfHomer777

HR Heisman
May 20, 2014
8,138
9,062
113
A take ...

Coaches often fall into 2 primary categories (although some other categories exist) ... schemers and fundamentalists. Schemers rely upon scheme for their successes ... whereas fundamentalists rely upon their players playing fundamentally sound ball for their success.

We all know that Kirk falls into the fundamentalist camp ... and he impresses that philosophy upon his staff. In contrast, Long was much more of a schemer.

The caveat with "scheming" as a strategy ... is that you're always reliant upon innovation ... so that you can stay ahead of the D in the cat-and-mouse strategy game against the opposing D. You're essentially constantly embroiled in an "arms race" of sorts.

Schemers don't always enjoy coaching longevity (or sustained success on the field) ... their success if fleeting once opposing coaches successfully learn to counter their schemes.

Fundamentalists particularly exploit in the college game that the great majority of players are still effectively "novices." To fundamentalists, they recognize how the game swings so much upon rare events. Rare-events are typically predicated upon player mistakes/errors. From this perspective ... games are more often lost than won.

Everyones a critic ... but Ferentz's strategy has produced more Ws than Ls ... its sustainable ... and its led to pretty unprecedented coaching longevity.

Of course, that doesn't imply that Iowa's schemes shouldn't evolve ... however, the way that they evolve should be compatible with Kirk's existing strategy ... because it works!
 

ghostOfHomer777

HR Heisman
May 20, 2014
8,138
9,062
113
I'm not saying that folks shouldn't consider SOME of what Chuck suggests ... but nor should folks lend undue weight to it either.

Chuck's offenses at Oklahoma were quite good. He also served as the primary QB coach. Oklahoma's recruiting under Bob was ridiculously good. Thus, Chuck had the benefit of sick-talent at his disposal at RB, WR, and QB (among other positions).

However impressive the stats of Chuck Long's offenses at Oklahoma ... his QBs NEVER made a splash in the NFL. Not unlike the QBs of Urban Meyer and other classic "schemers" ... much of the success of the O is a product of the scheme. While many, if not most) of the QBs possessed great talent - was their talent not misused if they never developed adequately to reach the next level?

In contrast, look at the more traditional Os like Michigan back in the day, Michigan State (under Dantonio and somewhat before), 'Bama under Saban, etc ... those programs produced disproportionately many QBs to the NFL. Their systems were obviously NFL friendly ... but the bigger thing was that their QBs truly learned the game. When you combine that with plenty of talent ... then the result obviously translates to the next level.
 
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cidhawkeye

HR Legend
Jun 21, 2009
12,932
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I just shake my head at those bashing Chuck Long. No, he was not a very good head coach. But he was one of the greatest college QB’s of all time and definitely the best Iowa has ever had. He still knows more about football than anyone in this thread.

I’ll take his opinion over the yahoos on this board.
Definitely better than the guy selected overall #1 in the NFL Draft?
 

desihawk

HR Heisman
Oct 1, 2002
7,462
6,703
113
Interesting. So are going to 'line up,' then everyone look over to the side at 5 random people holding memes and logos to send in the play? Always seemed like a circus to me and why isn't that a false start on the OL who are set then stand up or rock back while looking over there too?
i loathe that as well but if it makes us execute better i'll hold my nose and accept it.
 

nbanflfactory

HR Heisman
Aug 22, 2021
6,497
6,280
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I'm talking about his history with the current staff. There is most certainly an issue between Long and KF. His name is brought up often by people wanting him on the staff, and there's a reason it hasn't happened, and is never going to happen. Frankly I don't get the point of his podcasts or his being asked about the program. He's not an insider at this point, and most of what he says, (like this latest) is just basic stuff as we've discussed. He doesn't know anymore about whats going on inside Iowa football then the gentleman who run this board.
What insiders actually ask the hard questions and make honest statements about our well below avg offense? You have to be a kiss ass it appears....

And if you're not a kiss ass then you must hate kf it also seems
 

cmhawks99

HR Heisman
Jul 23, 2002
9,295
3,447
113
I'm talking about his history with the current staff. There is most certainly an issue between Long and KF. His name is brought up often by people wanting him on the staff, and there's a reason it hasn't happened, and is never going to happen. Frankly I don't get the point of his podcasts or his being asked about the program. He's not an insider at this point, and most of what he says, (like this latest) is just basic stuff as we've discussed. He doesn't know anymore about whats going on inside Iowa football then the gentleman who run this board.

Ill be honest with you, Chuck long is not my hero but I’ve always found him articulate & a pleasant man…

However I have never found him to be a brilliant football mind nor have I ever pined for him to be on the staff.

Kind of like Don Patterson: I don’t know why Don‘s opinion gets so much weight by some people it’s not like he had a storied head coaching career at Western Illinois. I think he was 64 and 37 and only made the playoffs a couple times.

Im supposing it’s part of the grass is always greener and there’s something better somewhere else mantra that people fall into….🤷‍♂️
 

cmhawks99

HR Heisman
Jul 23, 2002
9,295
3,447
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Yeah kf offense is what wins games.

Derp derp.

Ive said this before but it’s worth repeating…

Other than the company of a handful of guys on here that I really enjoy reading their stuff and some of the information I can’t get anywhere else or as timely I should say.

The thing that drives me to respond the most is just stupid ass thinking & poor debate skills…

I mean honestly think about what you just said… Guy makes a point about Chuck Long an offensive guy criticizing our offense & then points out Chuck’s career record again as an “offensive guy“ being way poorer than Kirk apparently a “defensive Guy” and all you can say is…”offense wins games”…

I mean Holy stupid Batman, apparently it doesn’t in this scenario….Derp, Derp!
 
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cmhawks99

HR Heisman
Jul 23, 2002
9,295
3,447
113
What insiders actually ask the hard questions and make honest statements about our well below avg offense? You have to be a kiss ass it appears....

And if you're not a kiss ass then you must hate kf it also seems

I feel badly for you…. As Homer often says reading comprehension is a skill.
 

NorthDSMHawk

HR Heisman
Oct 24, 2016
6,004
12,188
113
Ankeny
While the overall message might be no different than what's been discussed for ages, it is good to see a couple details come out in terms of moving play-calling from both qb and center to the sidelines. that is something more concrete that has been divulged prior.
Unless I missed where Chuck has been in coaches meetings or even just at all the practices this spring, this is why he thinks they might do.

"Chuck said it's 2 fold: (1) they have probably taken some audibles & some responsibility off the QB.

(2) you have a new center, so they might be trying to simplify the center's responsibilities."


It could be the case that this ends up being correct, but I'm pretty sure he has about as much insight as any of us about the actual changes going on right now.
 

ICWestfan

HR Legend
May 26, 2005
11,763
5,653
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We ran the ball for over 5 ypc in the bowl and didn't allow a sack, Our defense kept our opponent under 21 points and we still found a way to lose the game.


It isn't the Lines fault because the QB can't hit the broad side of a barn, it isn't the QBs fault because the play calling makes vanilla ice cream look exciting, it isn't the play calling because our line can't block.



It's all circular bullshit. Our line would look better if our QB could make accurate quick throws and slow a pass rush down. Our running game wasn't terrible and would have been better If the defense had to respect our passing attack at all. KF needs to get past the 1990s mold of QBs.
I was trying to think of way to say what you said in a succinct manner. So i'll just say this...

Ditto.

As to Iowa's offense, they looked pretty damn good when they had a RB that could run inside the tackles. I hope the Williams twins can do that this year and they can find a serviceable 3rd down back. Maybe one of those 2 has that ability. It seems like it's been a long time since they had a bruiser of back.
 

DodgerHawki

HR Heisman
Nov 19, 2002
9,478
11,115
113
This is just pathetic for someone to say out loud in 2022

You need the QB to be a playmaker irrespective of the running game. Said differently: you need the QB to be a playmaker even if you have a great running game.

-- a QB who is good at sensing rush pressure and protection breakdown
-- a QB is capable of scrambling away from pressure and avoiding sacks
-- a QB who is able to tuck and run for a positive gain when receivers are covered


With few exceptions (Beathard, Tate, Banks), Iowa QBs under Ferent have been woefully deficient in the above traits (Vandenberg, Stanley, Petras, many others). Cement-booted QBs who ended up with NEGATIVE or close to negative career rushiing yards. Sitting duck targets for blitzing LBs.

Iowa doesn't need a Russell Wilson/Marcus Mariotta type QB to be much more effective IMO. Iowa needs a QB with a decent arm who can run a fvckn 5.0 forty and smart enough to run the goddamn ball for a gain, preferably a 1st down, 3,4,5 times per game in order to keep drives alive and keep the defenders honest instead of cannon-shot missiles aimed at a fence post.
yes to this. It's not rocket science. Need a guy who can run for 6 yards if needed on 3rd down and 5, and/or have the moxie/presence to sense when the rush is closing in and make a play. Almost everything on the field has to go right when the QB can't make a play. Receivers have to get open, line has to block really well, etc.
 
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grayhair81

HR Legend
Sep 3, 2006
10,536
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This is just pathetic for someone to say out loud in 2022

You need the QB to be a playmaker irrespective of the running game. Said differently: you need the QB to be a playmaker even if you have a great running game.

-- a QB who is good at sensing rush pressure and protection breakdown
-- a QB is capable of scrambling away from pressure and avoiding sacks
-- a QB who is able to tuck and run for a positive gain when receivers are covered


With few exceptions (Beathard, Tate, Banks), Iowa QBs under Ferent have been woefully deficient in the above traits (Vandenberg, Stanley, Petras, many others). Cement-booted QBs who ended up with NEGATIVE or close to negative career rushiing yards. Sitting duck targets for blitzing LBs.

Iowa doesn't need a Russell Wilson/Marcus Mariotta type QB to be much more effective IMO. Iowa needs a QB with a decent arm who can run a fvckn 5.0 forty and smart enough to run the goddamn ball for a gain, preferably a 1st down, 3,4,5 times per game in order to keep drives alive and keep the defenders honest instead of cannon-shot missiles aimed at a fence post.

Just wait til SP's pro day: he will run a 4.76.
 
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83Hawk

HR Legend
Sep 17, 2002
20,337
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yes to this. It's not rocket science. Need a guy who can run for 6 yards if needed on 3rd down and 5, and/or have the moxie/presence to sense when the rush is closing in and make a play. Almost everything on the field has to go right when the QB can't make a play. Receivers have to get open, line has to block really well, etc.
These are good points and part of the reason why Petras struggles against some of the better teams/defenses he faces. He does not have a lot of mobility (he won’t beat you with his feet), and he tends to panic when pressured. Who can forget him throwing the ball into the stands on 4th down vs Wisconsin?

You can do these things and still be a game manager. Heck….you don’t even have to be mobile, as long as you can do the other things well. There have been a lot of successful “statue” QB’s. They made up for their lack of mobility by excelling in the other aspects of their game.

There are some who think he will suddenly be able to make plays, stop locking in on one receiver, etc. this season. Maybe he will. I hope he does, as I want the QB at Iowa to succeed NO MATTER WHO IT IS.

Being a game manager is fine, but at some point a QB is going to have to make plays and put together a game winning drive near the end of the 4th quarter. At this point, many Hawk fans do not have confidence in Petras being able to do this on a consistent basis.
 
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farina1

HR All-State
Gold Member
Mar 17, 2021
606
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I’m not saying he is totally wrong, but Chuck has an axe to grind with the current coaching staff. He seems to like to pylon.
You are so off base it is pathetic. He has made many valid comments. A decade worth of an underproducing offense is fine with you I guess.
 
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cmhawks99

HR Heisman
Jul 23, 2002
9,295
3,447
113
This is just pathetic for someone to say out loud in 2022

You need the QB to be a playmaker irrespective of the running game. Said differently: you need the QB to be a playmaker even if you have a great running game.

-- a QB who is good at sensing rush pressure and protection breakdown
-- a QB is capable of scrambling away from pressure and avoiding sacks
-- a QB who is able to tuck and run for a positive gain when receivers are covered


With few exceptions (Beathard, Tate, Banks), Iowa QBs under Ferent have been woefully deficient in the above traits (Vandenberg, Stanley, Petras, many others). Cement-booted QBs who ended up with NEGATIVE or close to negative career rushiing yards. Sitting duck targets for blitzing LBs.

Iowa doesn't need a Russell Wilson/Marcus Mariotta type QB to be much more effective IMO. Iowa needs a QB with a decent arm who can run a fvckn 5.0 forty and smart enough to run the goddamn ball for a gain, preferably a 1st down, 3,4,5 times per game in order to keep drives alive and keep the defenders honest instead of cannon-shot missiles aimed at a fence post.

Meh….is it?
yes to this. It's not rocket science. Need a guy who can run for 6 yards if needed on 3rd down and 5, and/or have the moxie/presence to sense when the rush is closing in and make a play. Almost everything on the field has to go right when the QB can't make a play. Receivers have to get open, line has to block really well, etc.

I think you just explained the problem of football and why it’s a challenging game to play and coach….

I guess for me things are equally more complicated and also more simple… I feel like people act like dual threat quarterbacks are the New Age and I wonder what they think Sammy Baugh or Fran Tarkington etc. etc. were….

Tom Brady is no longer even arguably the greatest quarterback in the history of the game and he’s always been a statue with a rocket arm and an incredible mind…

Recruiting services for some reason or another still continue to rate statuesque quarterbacks with 4-stars and other teams keep offering them, why? Why do you think that is?

I'm serious? If it is stupid to have a quarterback that can’t run a little bit how in the hell do they keep coming out of high school with multiple offers and four stars?

For me this is where the rubber hits the highway; Oklahoma has more history than us, they are right next to recruiting Shangri-La, they always have top 10 classes (even though similar NFL players interestingly enough ) and they clearly have been better than us yet at the end of the day their defense has held them back from two or three more national championships and their fans are pissed…

Also Hall of Fame coach Bobby stoops and future Hall of Fame Coach Lincoln Riley between the two of them somehow managed to a amass 10 or 11 losses in 12 seasons to double digit underdogs….

It is what it is….at the end of the day you settle in and try to enjoy your favorite sports team or you continue to be upset because they haven’t done enough!

Im not gonna be on the back end of that equation… Yes our offense sucks yes there are times when I get sick to my stomach it is so miserable watching them but I have enough sports experience over my lifetime to realize it isn’t just us and it’s never just as simple as making this one little thing a little bit better…

Many of you do think that and I wish you really did have the answer because I would readily vote you coach ,but you’d be throwing darts just like 99% of everybody else !!!

and not you dodger I know you’re not typically anti-Ferentz!
 
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pistachio1999

HR MVP
Nov 29, 2021
1,247
1,559
113
Chuck has all the evidence on his side. He's talking about an offense that ranked #121 of 130 teams last season and that has been poor for years. Maybe some posters should stop being KF apologists. This offense is, to use an Iowa term, bullshit. And most people who know a lick about football recognize that reality. We don't like it, but we do recognize it, which is the first step in fixing it. KF and BF don't appear to be there yet . . . but then it's only been 23 years for KF.

And anyone who thinks the QB "competition" is fair hasn't paid attention the last couple of decades either. It's Petras or bust. And we know how that worked out last year. The defense won games. The special teams won games. The offense stunk it up. Plain and simple.
Yeah dammit. 10-2. We should have been 13-0 Kirk!!!!!!!! And all you guys tell your wives they need to lose 10 more pounds while they are at it too. We are all seeking to be better right!