Chuck Long has a Lot to Say about the Iowa Offense

sober_teacher

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You make valid points and I agree that no one should be handed anything.

Also, no one (at this point) should be given the benefit of the doubt …as in viewed as the “incumbent”. That’s where I’m afraid Kirk has a weakness. He may say it’s an open competition, but does he truly treat it as one?

He believes above all else in consistency and repetition when preparing for a game. He wants everyone to believe in the system, don’t deviate from it, stick with it and wait for the opponent to make a mistake. That philosophy isn’t conducive to replacing a 2-yr starter at QB unless circumstances (like injury) force him to.

How many here don’t think Petra’s is going to get the lions share of the starting unit snaps from day one of fall camp?

I wish it wasn’t the case, but history with Kirk and the QB position clearly prove otherwise.

You mean like when Kirk replaced a 2 year starter in Rudock with Beathard? Rudock who went on to win 10 games and got drafted the following year? Or when Stanzi replaced an established starter in Christensen once it became clear that Stanzi was better?

For some reason you have apparently decided that Kirk is lying to his players about an open competition, with zero actual evidence. I can think of no greater sin for a head coach than to lie to his players, because once players lose trust in their coach the entire locker room falls apart. And if we know anything about Kirk, it’s that he genuinely cares about his players.
 
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LaQuintaHawkeye

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You mean like when Kirk replaced a 2 year starter in Rudock with Beathard? Rudock who went on to win 10 games and got drafted the following year? Or when Stanzi replaced an established starter in Christensen once it became clear that Stanzi was better?

For some reason you have apparently decided that Kirk is lying to his players about an open competition, with zero actual evidence. I can think of no greater sin for a head coach than to lie to his players, because once players lose trust in their coach the entire locker room falls apart. And if we know anything about Kirk, it’s that he genuinely cares about his players.

I'll give you the move with Stanzi, but the Beathard move was 100% dictated by "daddy getting his way".

Sometimes it's not a lie if you actually believe it.
 

cmhawks99

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Kids want to believe what their leadership tells them. When I was young I actually believed what politicians had to say.

What I’m saying is that I have zero faith that Kirk will actually proceed with an open competition. Kirk has proven time and time again his preference to “pick a horse” and stay with it regardless of how previous results would encourage reconsideration.

Anyone with eyes can see that this team has won in spite of Spencer Petras and not because of Spencer Petras.

It’s also had to overcome poor offensive play calling, or lack of will to play call …but that’s not on Petras. He’s not Drew Tate after all.

It seems the guys on the board that I gravitate to. The ones that I think seem the brightest and with the best logic train don’t agree with your history statement nor do I think a poor Coach with a poor track record makes it 24 years with his team improving immensely over his last five years.

Really not any way to explain that away. Keep trying if you want but I’d say it’s not playing with the majority of people.

I also don’t think the playcalling has been as poor as you’d like to pretend… And watching a lot of highlights lately lotta pretty good play calls out there they get overshadowed because of bias on peoples parts like you.

The problem really is we sucked pretty bad last year with consistency everywhere on offense….

And I guess the LSU game is going to carry Drew through for the rest of his Hawkeye dome… Honestly for me I think Ricky Stanzi is my favorite quarterback of all time. Ricky made a hell of a lot of great plays.

Honestly though I’ve gotten tired of this conversation it’s ridiculous we’re talking about a 24 year coach that is still continually lampooned by a certain segment of the Fanbase. Even though for all intents and purposes, except offense, he’s gotten better at everything. It really is tiresome I hope you guys have similar critics in your life that just constantly bash you over and over!
 
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sober_teacher

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I'll give you the move with Stanzi, but the Beathard move was 100% dictated by "daddy getting his way".

Sometimes it's not a lie if you actually believe it.

I’ll agree to some extent Kirk knew Beathard would transfer if he didn’t outright name him the starter…but I also think Beathard would have ultimately won the job by the start of 2015 season.

I’m just saying that there’s this narrative out there that Kirk has this long history of always starting the wrong quarterback and there really isn’t. At best you have Rudock/Beathard, where Rudock was simply okay (not terrible) as a starter his first year in 2013, prompting Kirk to experiment with a 2 QB tryout in 2014 that went badly, but Rudock was still okay as a starter.
 
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David1979

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I’ll agree to some extent Kirk knew Beathard would transfer if he didn’t outright name him the starter…but I also think Beathard would have ultimately won the job by the start of 2015 season.

I’m just saying that there’s this narrative out there that Kirk has this long history of always starting the wrong quarterback and there really isn’t. At best you have Rudock/Beathard, where Rudock was simply okay (not terrible) as a starter his first year in 2013, prompting Kirk to experiment with a 2 QB tryout in 2014 that went badly, but Rudock was still okay as a starter.
Yeah, I think they knew that Beathard provided a certain element that Rudock didn't even though Rudock was a good QB. So I think he was going to start regardless. But it isn't like Rudock was bad he was a really good QB and they still would have had a really good season with him at QB.
 
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sober_teacher

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Yeah, I think they knew that Beathard provided a certain element that Rudock didn't even though Rudock was a good QB. So I think he was going to start regardless. But it isn't like Rudock was bad he was a really good QB and they still would have had a really good season with him at QB.
More than anything else. Beathard had that undefinable “IT” factor that the team rallied around.
 

LaQuintaHawkeye

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And guess the LSU game is going to carry Drew through for his rest of his Hawkeye dome… Honestly for me I think Ricky Stanzi is my favorite quarterback of all time. Ricky made a hell of a lot of great plays.

To clarify, my comment about Drew Tate wasn't that he was the best QB of the Ferentz era, but that he was known for audibling ...even early on as a starter. The guy had an arrogance and swagger about him that he wasn't afraid to disregard the play call from the box/sideline and would change it at the line if he saw the defense lined up to stop what was called and/or looked vulnerable to a different play than what was called. Petras seems to follow orders.

Regarding the rest, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I have little hope that even if Labas (or AP) wows them in practice with his limited reps, we'll still see Petras trotting out there to line up under center to start the season.
 

sober_teacher

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To clarify, my comment about Drew Tate wasn't that he was the best QB of the Ferentz era, but that he was known for audibling ...even early on as a starter. The guy had an arrogance and swagger about him that he wasn't afraid to disregard the play call from the box/sideline and would change it at the line if he saw the defense lined up to stop what was called and/or looked vulnerable to a different play than what was called. Petras seems to follow orders.

Regarding the rest, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I have little hope that even if Labas (or AP) wows them in practice with his limited reps, we'll still see Petras trotting out there to line up under center to start the season.
Maybe, but then you’re buying the premise that Kirk won’t start Labas or Padilla just to spite us fans, who mostly believe Petras has stalled out in his development.

I don’t rule out Petras starting against SDSU. If that happens, I think it’s more because Labas or Padilla failed to wow in August. I would be surprised if he has a long leash if he struggles again however.
 

mooresville hawk

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To clarify, my comment about Drew Tate wasn't that he was the best QB of the Ferentz era, but that he was known for audibling ...even early on as a starter. The guy had an arrogance and swagger about him that he wasn't afraid to disregard the play call from the box/sideline and would change it at the line if he saw the defense lined up to stop what was called and/or looked vulnerable to a different play than what was called. Petras seems to follow orders.

Regarding the rest, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I have little hope that even if Labas (or AP) wows them in practice with his limited reps, we'll still see Petras trotting out there to line up under center to start the season.

Why do you say Tate disregarded the play call from the sideline? Chuck Long said the Iowa coaches expect the quarterback to get the offense in the correct play based on what he sees at the line of scrimmage. This is why it has taken a while for new quarterbacks to get up to speed and why Kirk tends to stick with the quarterback with more experience. Chuck said his personal approach was to take this responsibility off of the quarterback, though that approach was not necessarily better than what Kirk has done. You hold Tate up as the exception and use him as an example of a quarterback who thrived in spite of the coaching staff when in fact he did what the coaching staff is expecting.
 
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LaQuintaHawkeye

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Maybe, but then you’re buying the premise that Kirk won’t start Labas or Padilla just to spite us fans, who mostly believe Petras has stalled out in his development.

I don’t rule out Petras starting against SDSU. If that happens, I think it’s more because Labas or Padilla failed to wow in August. I would be surprised if he has a long leash if he struggles again however.

I'm actually buying the premise that Kirk will choose consistency and sticking with his guy.
 

sober_teacher

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Why do you say Tate disregarded the play call from the sideline? Chuck Long said the Iowa coaches expect the quarterback to get the offense in the correct play based on what he sees at the line of scrimmage. This is why it has taken a while for new quarterbacks to get up to speed and why Kirk tends to stick with the quarterback with more experience. Chuck said his personal approach was to take this responsibility off of the quarterback, though that approach was not necessarily better than what Kirk has done. You hold Tate up as the exception and use him as an example of a quarterback who thrived in spite of the coaching staff when in fact he did what the coaching staff is expecting.

There’s also an assumption that unless the QB makes big gestures or something he isn’t changing the playcall somehow. There’s so much we likely miss not being at field level in terms of calling out assignments, changing the play or which direction, etc.

I would love an honest conversation with BF or any other OC - what percentage of plays are changed at the line of scrimmage vs what the initial call was, especially when it was called in a huddle.
 
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mooresville hawk

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Kirk is stubborn.

Do you doubt that Kirk is playing the quarterback he feels gives Iowa the best chance to win? I do not believe he is playing one quarterback over an other because he likes one better than the other or to prove to the fans that he is right. He recruited all of the quarterbacks on the team, so they should all be "his guys." That does not mean he has the same confidence in all of them at the same time.
 

LaQuintaHawkeye

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That’s not an answer tho. Of course he’s stubborn, most coaches are.

Do you think if Petras starts next season, it’s because Kirk believes he’s the best option or because Kirk just doesn’t want to change the qb?

Kirk will play it safe and go with a known commodity ...again, consistency and sticking with his guy.

"His guy" = the one he tabbed as starter 2 years ago and is still on the team, and who hasn't looked terrible, just hasn't looked great.
 

David1979

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Petras is one of the 2 or 3 worst starting QBs in KF era. The problem is right now it isn't looking like he is being challenged by his backups which isn't good. Labas is still young so he could end up being pretty good but sounds like he will have to make a big jump to beat him out. And Padilla was even worse last year than Spencer. Should have tried to upgrade through the portal but all we can do now is hope the backups really put in the work to improve to give Iowa a better option.
I think it is clear that Brian and KF want more from the QB situation as well. Petras isn't the "safe" option. his TD to INT ratio is horrible and he gets sacked a lot.
 
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sober_teacher

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Kirk will play it safe and go with a known commodity ...again, consistency and sticking with his guy.

"His guy" = the one he tabbed as starter 2 years ago and is still on the team, and who hasn't looked terrible, just hasn't looked great.
But we know from kirks history, if past is prologue, he WILL make the qb change if he feels he has a better option.
 
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