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Clayton Kershaw an all-time great?

H

HawkeyesAndCubs1023

HB Legend
Jul 30, 2004
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I can't help but wonder every time I see another shutout from Kershaw if we are witnessing a pitcher who will go down in history as one of the 5 or so best pitchers ever. While some focus on a couple of bad playoff outings against St. Louis, his regular season dominance is the best we have seen in awhile, and he appears to be getting even better.

His career ERA at age 28 is sub-2.40, his FIP (fielding independent pitching) is an insane 2.36, and his K/9 and K/BB are out of this world. Additionally, when you watch the guy, you wonder how he ever gives up a hit.

For those of you who have followed baseball longer and closer than I -- how does Kershaw stack up with Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, etc.?
 
The guy has a great arm with a somewhat Greg Maddox mind. Kershaw is coming in to his prime right now. Coming in to your prime with the sickest curve ball in the history of the game spells good things for Kershaw. I agree, he will go down as one of the greats if not the greatest of all time.
 
Pedro Martinez is the best pitcher I've ever seen, and considered the best in the last 20-25 years. Right now, Kershaw is number 5 for me in the last 20-25 years, but by the end of his career could be as high as 2 on my list.

My top 5 over the last 20-25 years is, in order: Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, and Clayton Kershaw.
 
He has to do it longer than he has, but he's certainly on that path right now. A couple more years and he might even be in Sandy Koufax territory where even a relatively short run of greatness is ok if your greatness is that great. While their styles are not similar in really any way, I agree with the earlier comparison to Maddux smarts. He's more the classic power pitcher, but he has a very smart approach on the mound.
 
Hime_Peterson said:
I can't help but wonder every time I see another shutout from Kershaw if we are witnessing a pitcher who will go down in history as one of the 5 or so best pitchers ever. While some focus on a couple of bad playoff outings against St. Louis, his regular season dominance is the best we have seen in awhile, and he appears to be getting even better.

His career ERA at age 28 is sub-2.40, his FIP (fielding independent pitching) is an insane 2.36, and his K/9 and K/BB are out of this world. Additionally, when you watch the guy, you wonder how he ever gives up a hit.

For those of you who have followed baseball longer and closer than I -- how does Kershaw stack up with Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, etc.?
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Don't know, bug Doug Kershaw certainly was one of the greatest.

doug-kershaw.jpg
 
IF he continues on the path he has been on he will definitely be a top 5 all time.
 
I agree that he's been very good, but the all-time greats mostly were great for many, many years. Not to mention that many of the greats who pitched for so long won't have quite as sexy advanced stats due to slowing down and getting less strikeouts and some down years at the end.
 
hawkeyesjtb said:
Pedro Martinez is the best pitcher I've ever seen, and considered the best in the last 20-25 years. Right now, Kershaw is number 5 for me in the last 20-25 years, but by the end of his career could be as high as 2 on my list.

My top 5 over the last 20-25 years is, in order: Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, and Clayton Kershaw.
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Hard to argue with those 5 guys, but I would put them in a different order. Randy Johnson, Maddux and Clemens were better for longer periods than Pedro. However, Pedro at his peak was unreal. I hate Clemens. The last 6 years, Kershaw has been amazing. We will see what he does the next 10 years, but he is peaking right now. For 1 season, Dwight Gooden in 1985 was perhaps the best pitcher I have ever seen.
 
Nolan Ryan was overpowering at times, but got hit around at times too.

Chris Sale is right there too,
 
ANYCHawk said:
Not without more playoff success.
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Not as if the guy has had much help with that line-up and bullpen. He did get torched in 2013 by STL, but his other losses have not all been his fault if I recall. I know the majority of people around here are Cubs fans and are marveled by Arrietta, and for good reason, but Kershaw has been doing this for 6 years now.
 
Pedro Martinez may be the reason I am no longer a Dodger fan.

If Clayton Kershaw hadn't had the post-season failures, I believe he would be ranked right up there with the best.
 
gojojo said:
Not as if the guy has had much help with that line-up and bullpen. He did get torched in 2013 by STL, but his other losses have not all been his fault if I recall. I know the majority of people around here are Cubs fans and are marveled by Arrietta, and for good reason, but Kershaw has been doing this for 6 years now.
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He got torched in a lot of them. Look at the numbers they are bad for pretty much all. Now we was good against the Mets. But he needs more consistent post season success.
 
in 2013 he had 4 starts...in one he got torched like I mentioned and in the other 3 he gave up 1 earned run. Stl lit him up again in 2014 with 8 ER, but a lot of his losses were due to many other Dodger Eff ups. LA has really been a mess besides CK and then ZG last year.

in the 2 games I mentioned he gave up 15 ER.

In the other 11 he gave up a total of 18 ER. That's pretty solid.
 
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