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Climate crisis strikes again

So is this global warming?Ice in record amount=global warming.Sounds like doublethink to me.
 
It's global warming, not local warming. 2014 was the warmest year on record.
 
In 10 years all these guys will be trying to claim that they were never deniers.
Probably. What choice will they have?

Have you also noticed that the right has started to change their stance on Climate Change? Before, they denied that Climate Change was even happening. Now, they concede that it is, but that we're not the main cause. Then, they will admit that we're the main cause, but that it's not a big problem. And finally, the right will admit that we're the main cause, that it is a problem, but that the Liberals were the ones to hold up solutions to fix it.

I can see this coming already.
 
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Didn't Algore say the ice caps would be melted by now as his criss crosses the globe adding multiple times more CO2 to the atmosphere than the average human?
 
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Probably. What choice will they have?

Have you also noticed that the right has started to change their stance on Climate Change? Before, they denied that Climate Change was even happening. Now, they concede that it is, but that we're not the main cause. Then, they will admit that we're the main cause, but that it's not a big problem. And finally, the right will admit that we're the main cause, that it is a problem, but that the Liberals were the ones to hold up solutions to fix the problem.

I can see this coming already.

Correct. It's like the stages people go through when they lose a loved one or are told they have terminal cancer.

You left out two end-stage steps that I've already heard a few times. The first is that it's real and it's a big deal but we'll just have to roll with it because it's too expensive to fix (sometimes expressed as it puts us at too much of a competitive disadvantage if we try to fix it, or there's no point acting if countries X and Y don't act). The other is that it's real and it's big but it's too late.

That last one is starting to look like a self-fulfilling prophecy - at least as far as the 2-degree target is concerned. We're seeing more talk about 4-6 degrees this century if we don't take aggressive action. The IEA says we have to stop increasing the release of Carbon by 2017 to have a chance - something that now looks nearly impossible.
 
Correct. It's like the stages people go through when they lose a loved one or are told they have terminal cancer.

You left out two end-stage steps that I've already heard a few times. The first is that it's real and it's a big deal but we'll just have to roll with it because it's too expensive to fix (sometimes expressed as it puts us at too much of a competitive disadvantage if we try to fix it, or there's no point acting if countries X and Y don't act). The other is that it's real and it's big but it's too late.

That last one is starting to look like a self-fulfilling prophecy - at least as far as the 2-degree target is concerned. We're seeing more talk about 4-6 degrees this century if we don't take aggressive action. The IEA says we have to stop increasing the release of Carbon by 2017 to have a chance - something that now looks nearly impossible.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. — Arthur Schopenhauer
 
And anyone who believed him implicitly was a fool.

However, the vast majority of real climate scientists agree the earth is in fact warming, and evidence comes from decreased Arctic Sea ice.
I realize even reasonable people don't want to get stuck defending Gore. But let's acknowledge that he has been on the right side of this issue for a very long time, and his efforts to draw public attention to it have been laudatory. Those who think that Gore has somehow made things worse seem to ignore that the attack machine has attempted to destroy just about everybody who has raised the alarm. Gore just happened to be an easy target for other reasons. But he was (and is) still mostly right.
 
We all know you will be long gone by then LC.
Not if the Parsers of the world are right. Or maybe you think I won't last another year or two.

As for Al Gore......we were supposed to believe everything he said at the time he said it, and anyone who questioned his movie was called a denier. Since it turned out a lot of stuff in the movie was pure bullshit, now we're criticized for citing him, since he isn't a real scientist.

The warmistas have nobody to blame but themselves for the presence of skeptics like LC. If they had been honest in the past, or even if they were honest now, it would help their case. But they weren't and they aren't, so it didn't.
 
Oh, I'm not a denier. Anyone who's read my posts on the subject knows that. I'm a skeptic of the doomsday scenario, which is not the same thing.
Anyone who has read your posts over the years knows that you are a denier, but you always claim you aren't - and then go on to downplay the risk following the steps that Huey and I have outlined. You have shifted your stage of denial over time, but you are still arguing against it being important enough to act. And you still attack those who have been right from the beginning - whether scientists or those of us who pay attention to science.
 
Not if the Parsers of the world are right. Or maybe you think I won't last another year or two.

As for Al Gore......we were supposed to believe everything he said at the time he said it, and anyone who questioned his movie was called a denier. Since it turned out a lot of stuff in the movie was pure bullshit, now we're criticized for citing him, since he isn't a real scientist.

The warmistas have nobody to blame but themselves for the presence of skeptics like LC. If they had been honest in the past, or even if they were honest now, it would help their case. But they weren't and they aren't, so it didn't.

His movie came out 10 years ago. Did it get everything right? No. But it nailed the larger picture which is that the Earth is warming and that we're the cause. Why do you keep denying this?
 
Not if the Parsers of the world are right. Or maybe you think I won't last another year or two.

As for Al Gore......we were supposed to believe everything he said at the time he said it, and anyone who questioned his movie was called a denier. Since it turned out a lot of stuff in the movie was pure bullshit, now we're criticized for citing him, since he isn't a real scientist.

The warmistas have nobody to blame but themselves for the presence of skeptics like LC. If they had been honest in the past, or even if they were honest now, it would help their case. But they weren't and they aren't, so it didn't.
Even the genuine alarmist - not the IPCC, whose reports have been pretty conservative, which is why they keep being revised to predict worse outcomes - aren't predicting extreme levels of harm before 2030-2040. So you and I have a shot a front row seats.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative LC, but the truth rarely does - on this or most topics.

I love how you are starting to refer to yourself in the 3rd person.
 
Nothing is going to change until China changes and they are going to increase polution freely until 2030. The problem is there is nothing holding them to change in 2030. Obama made a worthless deal with China with only the USA suffering.
 
His movie came out 10 years ago. Did it get everything right? No. But it nailed the larger picture which is that the Earth is warming and that we're the cause. Why do you keep denying this?
global_warming_cartoon650px.jpg
 
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His movie came out 10 years ago. Did it get everything right? No. But it nailed the larger picture which is that the Earth is warming and that we're the cause. Why do you keep denying this?
The point about Gore's movie wasn't just that it "didn't get everything right." The point was that it was effing dishonest. Just like a lot of the alleged "research" the warmistas promote.
 
Even the genuine alarmist - not the IPCC, whose reports have been pretty conservative, which is why they keep being revised to predict worse outcomes - aren't predicting extreme levels of harm before 2030-2040. So you and I have a shot a front row seats.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative LC, but the truth rarely does - on this or most topics.

I love how you are starting to refer to yourself in the 3rd person.
I've always referred to myself in the third person here, and I see you are struggling again, resorting to personal attacks. Par(ser) for the course.
 
Anyone who has read your posts over the years knows that you are a denier, but you always claim you aren't - and then go on to downplay the risk following the steps that Huey and I have outlined. You have shifted your stage of denial over time, but you are still arguing against it being important enough to act. And you still attack those who have been right from the beginning - whether scientists or those of us who pay attention to science.

I've read his posts over time, and have observed that, like me, he's always been a skeptic, mostly because of the crazy claims alarmists have been making.

This just looks like demagoguery to me - if someone doesn't toe the line in your worldview - try to label them as something they're not. LC is a pretty reasonable guy. I don't always agree with him, but he has generally sound reasoning behind most of his posts.

I don't think your namecalling will work very well, except for others who are deeply invested in the same ideology as you. The rest of us pretty much understand how you operate in this area. It does get old, though.
 
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The warmistas have nobody to blame but themselves for the presence of skeptics like LC.

Translation: I've been very wrong, and democrats are to blame. Ole LC started this thread to establish he/she will loudly and proudly continue to be very wrong, because democrats.

Not enough icebreakers available to deal with the Great Lakes.

Translation: Partisan and simplistic thought is the only way to consider climate change, because liberals. On a related note, it is Al Gore's fault I conclude there is not a drought in California because it just rained in Texas.
 
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Translation: I've been very wrong, and democrats are to blame. Ole LC started this thread to establish he/she will loudly and proudly continue to be very wrong, because democrats.



Translation: Partisan and simplistic thought is the only way to consider climate change, because liberals. On a related note, it is Al Gore's fault I conclude there is not a drought in California because it just rained in Texas.

I hope you're not trying to suggest that the drought in California has anything to do with global warming/climate change. Because that would make you look pretty ignorant.
 
I have long since been a doubter of the methodology of how they can achieve a true "global temperature" to even know how fast or how much it is rising.

Even under the greatest of all circumstances, we only have 200 years of accurate and reliable temperature readings.

Basing policies on such a short sample size seems next to ludicrous.
 
The GW topic became too political too quickly when the carbon tax idea came about. I dont disagree that humans affect mother nature...we cause smog so we sure the hell can cause issues on a larger scale. The problem is the solution. Can we do anything about it? The whole world has to be involved and that wont happen. The carbon tax was a liberal wet dream to take money from corporations and give it to others. Money and politicas got involved and ruined the discussion.
 
I realize even reasonable people don't want to get stuck defending Gore. But let's acknowledge that he has been on the right side of this issue for a very long time, and his efforts to draw public attention to it have been laudatory. Those who think that Gore has somehow made things worse seem to ignore that the attack machine has attempted to destroy just about everybody who has raised the alarm. Gore just happened to be an easy target for other reasons. But he was (and is) still mostly right.

Does being a raging lunatic that makes outlandish statements really help the cause or make him on the 'right side' of the issue? I don't think so. I would say he would draw better attention to the issue if he didn't make stupid predicitons that everyone, including him, know are untrue and therefore cause more people ignore most everything he says.
 
I hope you're not trying to suggest that the drought in California has anything to do with global warming/climate change. Because that would make you look pretty ignorant.

Implying that localized weather phenomena and climate are the same topic, as is the clear and intended implication of this thread, is very wrong.

I hope you're not trying to suggest that the current level of fresh water surface ice in Lake Superior has anything to do with a lack of global warming/climate change. Because that would make you look pretty ignorant.
 
I think you need to review the definitions of "global" and "local" before you're allowed to comment on this topic.

And, for your reading enjoyment...
If we can be serious and have a rational discussion for a moment -- I realize that excludes Parser from the conversation, but every cloud has a silver lining -- my questions and criticisms are prompted by the changing and/or inaccurate predictions that have been presented over the years as "accepted science," etc., and thus are supposed to be immune from questions and criticisms.

In line with that, my posting of the information about the Great Lakes was not just because I saw a random case of cold weather. I realize "global" means "global" and "climate" isn't "weather." (Not all the warming alarmists do, of course, but that's another topic).

I was struck by the story about the Great Lakes region because that's a region that previously was singled out by the warming advocates as one that would be adversely affected by warming. Unless you put the Union of Concerned Scientists in the same bag with Al Gore as a source that is to be ignored when it's wrong. (Frankly, I have long thought the UCS was a bogus source, but again, that's another topic).

What I'm talking about isn't science. It's logic and common sense. Hypothetical example: If Joe Blow cites a reduction in the arctic ice as evidence of global warming, Joe Blow can't ignore an increase in antarctic ice as irrelevant and Joe sure as hell can't pass of an increase in arctic ice as irrelvant.

When high-ranking IPCC scientists resign under protest because their work is being manipulated and misrepresented to show something it simply doesn't show, that's not irrelevant.

When models that are touted as definitive proof turn out to be wrong, they can't be dismissed out of hand as irrelevant.

My position always has been that I lack the training and information to make an informed judgment on the science, but I have seen enough snake oil sold to recognize the signs. I have never said the climate isn't changing, and I have never denied that human activity has a role in it. I have questioned the practicality and efficicacy of some of the measures proposed to deal with the perceived problems, and I have questioned why so much effort is being devoted to preventative measures that are highly unlikely to make a substantive difference instead of to measures that will help deal with the results of climate change.
 
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Probably. What choice will they have?

Have you also noticed that the right has started to change their stance on Climate Change? Before, they denied that Climate Change was even happening. Now, they concede that it is, but that we're not the main cause. Then, they will admit that we're the main cause, but that it's not a big problem. And finally, the right will admit that we're the main cause, that it is a problem, but that the Liberals were the ones to hold up solutions to fix it.

I can see this coming already.
We probably aren't the main cause, I do think we are accelerating it though.
 
Implying that localized weather phenomena and climate are the same topic, as is the clear and intended implication of this thread, is very wrong.

I hope you're not trying to suggest that the current level of fresh water surface ice in Lake Superior has anything to do with a lack of global warming/climate change. Because that would make you look pretty ignorant.

I never brought up a local weather phenomenon in this thread. You did, in a response to LC. Glad to hear you recognize it was a silly thing to do. Unfortunately, I think you still don't completely understand why.
 
Implying that localized weather phenomena and climate are the same topic, as is the clear and intended implication of this thread, is very wrong.

I hope you're not trying to suggest that the current level of fresh water surface ice in Lake Superior has anything to do with a lack of global warming/climate change. Because that would make you look pretty ignorant.
Tell it to the scientist from NOAA. Story is from two years ago.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Energy/2...Climate-change-to-worsen-Lake-Erie-algae.html
 
That's how conservatives always work, but I'd bet more like 20 years.
Depends on how quickly it gets bad.

And who's in office when it gets bad. We could see a repeat of the GOP schizophrenia on things like Libya and Syria where, on the other hand, they are beating up the Dem in the White House for doing anything at all, yet simultaneously saying they would do it much more powerfully.
 
The point about Gore's movie wasn't just that it "didn't get everything right." The point was that it was effing dishonest. Just like a lot of the alleged "research" the warmistas promote.
This is a puzzling claim since his movie's message was that Global Warming is real, it's caused by man, and unless we start taking the necessary steps to address this problem, it will wind up biting us in the ass later on. There is nothing dishonest in that message.
 
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