Coaches interviews??
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I didn't like Smith in the 90's. For the last several years I have appreciated his post match comments. He did a great job commentating at the olympics. I now like the elder statesman.
I like John. Don't care for his guys' style of wrestling, for the most part, but I think he seems like a good dude and a great ambassador for the sport.
I have a ton of respect for the Iowa wrestling program, but this argument about style just kills me. Tying up the head and pushing the other wrestler around and wearing out your opponent, just takes the beauty out of the sport. If you want a fitness contest, watch cross country. personally I'd rather watch someone like Dieringer who can score on you 100 different ways.
I will say the Iowa style is effective in folk style. You've taken some lesser talented kids through the years and made them AAs. I just personally prefer free flowing creative offense. Pedo has accumulated enough bonus from guy's like Ruth and Taylor to equate to another wrestler making the finals. High flying offense does that. It (and the fact I think they have to cheat) is why they have so much success come tournament time.
But I digress. Smith's "style" changed wrestling and led him to become the most decorated American wrestler. I don't see how that can be disputed.
I'm all for free-flowing offense. There have been a plethora of Iowa wrestlers over the decades who have been offensive machines, for that matter, with all the free-flowing offense you could ever want.
It's the use of the stall and the edge as strategic tools that I don't care for. As for cardio fitness, it's one area where Okie State wrestlers have generally lacked, and it's every bit as much a part of the sport as any move you can name. Commitment to optimizing fitness is an aspect of the sport I admire. Probably a cultural difference between Iowa and Oklahoma. It's no coincidence that Okie State uses the smallest mat in the nation or that Iowa uses the biggest one allowed.
I love offense of all kinds. I find it extremely distasteful, however, to watch a poorly conditioned wrestler score early on a slick move only to stall, wrestle the edge, take obvious lung timeouts, dive out of bounds when he's on the verge of giving up a score, etc. All staples of what Okie State guys have done for decades.
There are plenty of exceptions, but there's no denying that these are pretty significant characteristics of Okie State wrestling. Give me a hard-nosed kid with a work ethic and a will to win any day. Give him a huge offensive arsenal and I'll be even more excited to watch him.
John was a phenomenal wrestler, and an offensive machine. I'm not commenting on his style as a wrestler, but what we've often seen from Okie State dating back at least to the 70's, since I've been watching.
I didn't go out of my way to criticize Okie State here. To the contrary, I went out of my way to compliment Coach Smith, with a small qualifier. I'm just clarifying my position, since your response indicates that you didn't fully grasp what I was getting at. I'm sure you disagree. That's cool. Good luck in March; I'd rather see the Pokes win it all than any of our other primary rivals.
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They are never in great shape during the season but seem to find a way to be at nationals whereas we are always in great shape. Different strokes for different folks. I prefer our way.
We need those free flowing offensive guys and right now we have 2, Kem and Gilman. Brooks looked the part last night but we will find out about him Friday night and where he stands. All in all, I wasn't unimpressed with our guys for the most part. I think Sorenson needs to start attacking more, Meyer the same thing, and Stoll quit pushing so much. Clark will be there in March, idk if Brock will be. Carton has a real shot at AAing (I'd like to get his lifting plan lol).
One thing I don't like are Gilmans antics. Like with SDSU and now with Okie State just this year. Just win your national title and quit trying to stir the pot when you can let everyone know just how good you are with your wrestling.
We need those free flowing offensive guys and right now we have 2, Kem and Gilman. Brooks looked the part last night but we will find out about him Friday night and where he stands. All in all, I wasn't unimpressed with our guys for the most part. I think Sorenson needs to start attacking more, Meyer the same thing, and Stoll quit pushing so much. Clark will be there in March, idk if Brock will be. Carton has a real shot at AAing (I'd like to get his lifting plan lol).
One thing I don't like are Gilmans antics. Like with SDSU and now with Okie State just this year. Just win your national title and quit trying to stir the pot when you can let everyone know just how good you are with your wrestling.
I think you see what you want to see. I didn't see any gross stalling in the match. I also believe that it's all practice until March. For the most part, OSU is always in tournament shape. Again - that's why there are blue cars and red cars - so everyone can have what they want.
But Iowa has had many wrestlers that won because they hung on the head, hardly ever scored, except off mistakes, but were big physical gas tanks who were near impossible to take down. Is it any less stalling to lock up in a front headlock and not shoot?
At the end of the day it's about winning matches, duals and titles. Both of us can point to plenty of each. I just don't understand the need of many Iowa fans to insinuate that osu doesn't wrestle "manly" enough.
The idea is to win. If you can win by getting a couple of takedowns and holding on, it's still a win. If you win by pin, it's still a win. If you ride a guy out for a 1-0 win, it's still a win. The other wrestler always gets a say. If it was easy to stall out a match, lesser wrestlers would be more competitive. Especially with the edge rules now. Your heavy scored 4 points and never even attempted a shot. Didn't even tap a knee. He used his almost fifty pound advantage to push our heavy to the edge and get stalls called, but that kind of wrestling all teams should decry. So yeah I'm sensitive about the characterization that we are a bunch of stallers. It's like the sec football teams looking down their noses at spread offenses ... a few years back. Funny, now pretty much all teams spread it and throw it.
Anyway ... go beat pedo.
I can't believe it when we were so close to catching them on NCAA Championships, I started listening to him on wrestling as a sport. So help me I started to admiring him. I agree with you now, as long as Gable is still in the conversation
To be fair, the Iowa style of push and move ahead makes it look like OSU is stalling because they like to wrestle from distance a lot more. They try to get distance and Iowa crowds them and they try to get more distance and pretty soon they are on the edge of the mat. When OSU wrestles other teams, they seem to mix it up more.
But it's not really high flying offense unless it's executable by guys like DRinger who was more Iowa than OSU. DRinger dominates, but Heil is just good enough. Iowa guys don't sign on the dotted line that they will wrestled the "Iowa Style." Nor do Cowboys. PSU has three great guys who carry the reputation of the whole team...what about the other 7? Some animals are more equal than others.
For a minute, I was like "Pedo?" Who the F is Pedo? Was there a wrestler named Pedro? But than I was like..ahh, gotcha. Since the wrestling program had nothing to do with Pedo and I can't prove they cheat, I can only think of one thing to call them since Cael got there: Damn good.
When a team places ahead of teams at the national tournament on a regular when they lose to them during the year, you will hear that they peak later. When they beat people at the NCAA tourney who have beaten them earlier in the year, you will hear that.
This. DRinger had guys moving weight classes to avoid him. Heil not so much.
The small mat irritates me....why else have such a small mat if not so you can get out of bounds to avoid being scored on?
This whole thing gets to me as well, other than Stoll pushing Schafer to the edge what other match yesterday wasn't two guys going at it in the middle of the mat?
until someone took a shot and their progress carryed them off the mat before they could finish....how many times did Gilman drag his guy back on....Clark had a critical takedown that went off the mat....wouldnt have in Carver....Okie State beat us fair and square.....those small mats though...
I am not sure of the difference in the size of mats, but how does that favor one team over another?
I personally respect Smith A lot more than Carl. That being said I respect Carl also. My top 3 coaches would be Terry, Smith then a toss up between Tom and Carl. Once Carl takes a kid like Dennis who NEVER won a state title and puts him in the finals it will be hard to to argue he is not #1. My wife was working security at the grapple and had a REALLY nice conversation with Smith's dad and John himself. Class acts BIG TIME!! Assistant coaches not so much...
Side note my LEAST favorite coaches are Manning, Ryan and Knoll and little Sanderson Total jackasses!! If you only heard half they say at the duals and about Iowa you would understand. One of the many perks of your wife working security for a booster for for my daughters softball team. Manning is a classless prick that loathes everything about Iowa wrestling!!
Side note my LEAST favorite coaches are Manning, Ryan and Knoll and little Sanderson Total jackasses!! If you only heard half they say at the duals and about Iowa you would understand. One of the many perks of your wife working security for a booster for for my daughters softball team. Manning is a classless prick that loathes everything about Iowa wrestling!!
Wrestling style / philosophy it suits their style well thats why they do it.....not sure if you have any connections to the Iowa program or not but ask one of them what they think of the small mats....I think Gilman brought it up in his premeet interview....but you are right they wrestle on the same mat we do....sure no one is using it for an excuse....there are exceptions but I always viewed OSUs guys as counter wrestlers...they score alot off of other guys shots....and they are excellent riders tougher to get out of bottom with less room too
April Racer....this is a funny story about Oklahoma wrestling at Iowa years ago....Kurdelmeier put a 72 foot mat in for the dual....I get Oklahoma isnt Okie State but it reflects on the whole mat size thing
Gary Kurdelmeier also put fans in the stands with innovative promotions. For instance, for the 1975 dual meet vs. Oklahoma, he made a deal with the local McDonald's: If the Hawkeyes held the Sooners to fewer than ten points, each fan in attendance would score a free hamburger.
Gary Kurdelmeier
The promotion didn't stop there. For that Iowa vs. Oklahoma dual meet, Kurdelmeier had a 74-foot square mat put down on the floor of the Iowa Field House. "The mammoth mat practically covered the entire basketball floor, and the circle extended beyond the basketball foul lines on each end," according to Steve Hunte, Iowa's 134-pounder at the time.
"Oklahoma was notorious for playing the edge, hence the huge mat. You should've seen the looks on their faces when they came out into the gym and saw that huge mat for the first time … It really got the Iowa crowd excited."
The big mat worked. The dual meet was wrestled in just 56 minutes, with action being stopped only once for going out-of-bounds. The Hawkeyes drubbed the Sooners 34-5. As then-assistant coach J Robinson told Andy Hamilton for The History of Collegiate Wrestling, "It just about broke McDonald's. All of the sudden they had 9,000 people descending on them for a free hamburger."
Gary Kurdelmeier also put fans in the stands with innovative promotions. For instance, for the 1975 dual meet vs. Oklahoma, he made a deal with the local McDonald's: If the Hawkeyes held the Sooners to fewer than ten points, each fan in attendance would score a free hamburger.
Gary Kurdelmeier
The promotion didn't stop there. For that Iowa vs. Oklahoma dual meet, Kurdelmeier had a 74-foot square mat put down on the floor of the Iowa Field House. "The mammoth mat practically covered the entire basketball floor, and the circle extended beyond the basketball foul lines on each end," according to Steve Hunte, Iowa's 134-pounder at the time.
"Oklahoma was notorious for playing the edge, hence the huge mat. You should've seen the looks on their faces when they came out into the gym and saw that huge mat for the first time … It really got the Iowa crowd excited."
The big mat worked. The dual meet was wrestled in just 56 minutes, with action being stopped only once for going out-of-bounds. The Hawkeyes drubbed the Sooners 34-5. As then-assistant coach J Robinson told Andy Hamilton for The History of Collegiate Wrestling, "It just about broke McDonald's. All of the sudden they had 9,000 people descending on them for a free hamburger."
Will never forget that meet or that big,
beautiful, square mat. It was priceless.
I don't think Smith gets the credit he deserves "up here". He was the first guy I ever saw consistently score by grabbing a foot and having seemingly no where to go with it. I remember thinking "what the hell is that".
I also remember what Ok. St. Wrestled like before John, ass over the edge limited action and they did stall.
The rule change we have now kind of limits guys from always having their ass on the edge and Johns Pokes can go hard for the duration so hats off I give Smith and the Pokes their due. Now just get a big boy mat
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