Coaching greatness vs. talent on the field

[Kinnick.At.Night]

Nick Saban is probably going to be regarded as the GOAT in college football coaching when he retires. Who can argue with 7 national championships? Or additional titles that he'll more than likely win before he's done? How much of what he's accomplished would you attribute to being a great coach? And how much of it would you attribute to the talent and depth that he has one his roster year after year? I tend to think Saban's success as a whole can be described as 35% pure coaching and 65% talent on the field.

 

[General Tso]

Nick Saban is probably going to be regarded as the GOAT in college football coaching when he retires. Who can argue with 7 national championships? Or additional titles that he'll more than likely win before he's done? How much of what he's accomplished would you attribute to being a great coach? And how much of it would you attribute to the talent and depth that he has one his roster year after year? I tend to think Saban's success as a whole can be described as 35% pure coaching and 65% talent on the field.

I see it as they both contribute to each other. You win by being a great coach, which attracts players (plus paying the players)

 

[tippet1]

I have always wondered how he would have done at Michigan St. if he had stayed.

 

[Birdmanil]

I think you'll find different answers and criteria to what makes someone a great coach. One thing I think most of us agree on is he is a great manager, where in some sports manager is the equivalent to a coach. The way the different position groups perform and the way he manages the position group coaches that oversee the performance given the coaches change from year to year is amazing. The way he sets up his practices, game preparation and managing of egos has to be mentioned as well. Recruiting also plays into being a good coach at the college level and we see those results year in and year out. I'm not sure how great he is as an in-game strategist or play caller, but the great manager he is, he delegates that and oversees from a high level. Whatever criteria you use to establish what is a great coach, I bet after grading each criteria you will find he is a great coach. Love him or hate him.

 

[24 so far]

Nick Saban is probably going to be regarded as the GOAT in college football coaching when he retires. Who can argue with 7 national championships? Or additional titles that he'll more than likely win before he's done? How much of what he's accomplished would you attribute to being a great coach? And how much of it would you attribute to the talent and depth that he has one his roster year after year? I tend to think Saban's success as a whole can be described as 35% pure coaching and 65% talent on the field.

If I'm the QB and you're the running back and our friends and relatives make up the rest of the team, Nick Saban is not winning a damn thing. There's your answer. (no offense intended to your athletic prowess of course....I'm going out on a limb......Ha!)

Coaching does matter, but it's ALWAYS the Jimmy's and Joe's. If someone else has them and you don't, you're getting your ass beat. I would put the % closer to 90/10 or higher.

In Saban's case, he brought back a sleeping giant to life, so he certainly deserves credit for that. And especially in Football with the huge rosters, you can miss on some 4 and 5 star players and have some other 4 star "scrub" fill in just fine. Jimmy and Joe.

 

[iafan44]

You definitely have to be able to coach. All you have to do is look at teams like FSU, Miami, etc to see that it takes more than a bunch of talent.

 

[desihawk]

One thing to note about Saban and imo it is to his credit -- the guy's success hasn't ever to my recollection been completely dependent on a single superlative QB or for that matter any single position player. Imagine certain teams without their VInce Young orTLawrence. Granted saban has talent all over but i think he could win a NT with petras at qb

 

[ukrainehawk]

One thing to note about Saban and imo it is to his credit -- the guy's success hasn't ever to my recollection been completely dependent on a single superlative QB or for that matter any single position player. Imagine certain teams without their VInce Young orTLawrence. Granted saban has talent all over but i think he could win a NT with petras at qb

So can we. ;-)

 

[mlb1399]

Nick Saban is probably going to be regarded as the GOAT in college football coaching when he retires. Who can argue with 7 national championships? Or additional titles that he'll more than likely win before he's done? How much of what he's accomplished would you attribute to being a great coach? And how much of it would you attribute to the talent and depth that he has one his roster year after year? I tend to think Saban's success as a whole can be described as 35% pure coaching and 65% talent on the field.

If you don’t have the top end talent, you’re not going to win the big one. Having said that, Texas, USC, Oregon, Michigan are all bringing in top end talent and not winning the championship. Coaching matters A LOT. And Saban is clearly one of the best all time.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

As others have mentioned, it's hard to separate the two. Part of being a great coach is getting top talent. But you can't just throw 'em out there and expect to win, there still has to be a system, consistent coaching and execution by the players.

We've seen plenty of examples where teams had highly rated talent who ended up with lackluster careers or couldn't be used to build a great team. (see Nebraska). Certainly it's easier to recruit to Alabama than Kansas, but you still have to do the work every day. (Bama was 36-27 in the 5 years prior to Saban...even with cheating.)

Look no further than the other "blue bloods" where recruiting isn't an obstacle (UCLA, USC, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, Florida State). They still haven't found a coach that can get 'em to the playoff even once...much less a NC.

Saban is a machine, or rather, he has built one. He deserves full credit.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

One thing to note about Saban and imo it is to his credit -- the guy's success hasn't ever to my recollection been completely dependent on a single superlative QB or for that matter any single position player. Imagine certain teams without their VInce Young orTLawrence. Granted saban has talent all over but i think he could win a NT with petras at qb

Actually, in the 2010s (especially mid to current day) they actually did have the premiere players at certain positions.

RB, just about any position on defense but especially DB and LB, and by far and away WR. Look at all the names in the NFL right now that have come out of Alabama from the WR position over the last several years. And because of recruiting, Bama has typically had a good to great college level QB and that's really all they need when you have the talent surrounding him.

It is also worth mentioning that Saban typically hires some of the best, most innovative assistant coaches at the college level, who are always going to be on short lists for future head coaching jobs.............which is an odd paradox considering all the reports of Saban getting feisty about his assistants leaving to take said coaching jobs over the years.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

He deserves full credit.

For cheating.....

 

[not_mantiteo]

You have to give Saban a lot of credit. His entire coaching staff turns over every other year, as do players obviously, and yet Bama keeps winning. The one constant is Saban.

 

[24 so far]

You have to give Saban a lot of credit. His entire coaching staff turns over every other year, as do players obviously, and yet Bama keeps winning. The one constant is Saban.

And top 3 recruiting classes for a decade don't hurt.

The real question might be could Kirk Ferentz, Harbaugh, etc., beat Nick Saban if Nick had their players and they had his.

 

[StillGold]

And top 3 recruiting classes for a decade don't hurt.

The real question might be could Kirk Ferentz, Harbaugh, etc., beat Nick Saban if Nick had their players and they had his.

Bum Phillips Quotes

Bryant can take his'n and beat your'n, and then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n. ~ On Bear Bryant

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Much of success that Alabama enjoys is there because of the structure and culture that Saban has put in place.

Many "fans" attribute too much credit to schemes. Yet others attribute too much credit to "recruiting stars."

Saban is supremely good at managing the personnel, instituting a culture where the guys hold each other accountable, and for obviously bringing in high-level talent. The framework he has in place at Alabama allows for there to be the coaching carousel ... and yet they still win at an amazing clip. Part of it is also on the administrative end ... of how he handles boosters. There certainly may be some cheating going on ... but Saban has seemingly managed to "control" them (the boosters) enough so that any cheating remains in the shadows (and is harder to catch). At other schools, powerful boosters have managed to help ruin programs that they loved. You need/want the financial backing of those deep pockets ... but you also don't want them interfering too much either.

If you look at Wisconsin ... it would appear that Barry Alvarez has managed to kinda do the same thing ... even though he's not their coach. His "hand print" is still all over their program as it relates to recruiting, roster management, and style of play ...