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Cook Might Be Our Best Chance At Recruiting A Point Guard

iowalaw

All-Conference
Jan 20, 2015
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Fran's struggles at landing even an avg pt guard during his time at Iowa are well known. A point guard was the missing piece to this year's team. Next year's team will again be missing a point guard. It sounds like our top recruit, Cook, is putting the full court press on Illinois' Mr. Basketball, a point guard, Moore. Let's hope he can seal the deal. We need the guy big time.

http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...ommit-tyler-cook-helping-recruiting/83099348/
 
Hopefully good old-fashioned peer pressure works. Who know who else is talking to Charlie Moore, though. You would have to think immediate available playing time would be a huge selling point.
 
A. Fran has not struggled "landing even an avg pt guard."
B. Next year's team will not be missing a pt guard.

You want to complain that they haven't gotten an elite or even a top 3-4 in the B1G type, fine. You want to say that PG could be a weakness next year, fine. But the allusion you're making in your OP is at best ignorant, at worst, trolling.
 
A. Fran has not struggled "landing even an avg pt guard."
B. Next year's team will not be missing a pt guard.

You want to complain that they haven't gotten an elite or even a top 3-4 in the B1G type, fine. You want to say that PG could be a weakness next year, fine. But the allusion you're making in your OP is at best ignorant, at worst, trolling.

For those people who are all about stars, wasn't Mike Gesell a 4-star top 100 recruit? Just because his career didn't go how people may have expected or hoped for, the young man was still highly recruited out of high school. Also, I believe I read somewhere where Tyler Ullis was quoted as saying he was leaning toward Iowa until Kentucky swept in at the last minute.

Anyway, I agree that the criticism of Fran's recruiting efforts are unwarranted.
 
Ahhh...never mind. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Moore hasn't listed Iowa as an interest since last summer. So I'm not holding my breath. Nor do I think we are short on a point guard. I like Williams for sure and I'm trusting Fran on Bohannon as I haven't seen much of him.
 
Bryce Cartwright led the B1G in assists-McC recruit. Mikey G, while certainly not a top 1-4 kind of player, observed above, was certainly a far above average point guard. Not a great player but certainly not a below average player.
 
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Bryce Cartwright led the B1G in assists-McC recruit. Mikey G, while certainly not a top 1-4 kind of player, observed above, was certainly a far above average point guard. Not a great player but certainly not a below average player.

And it certainly shouldn't be lost that he broke the single season record for assists this year. Iowa has had some pretty good point guards over the years, so I'd say that's pretty impressive.
 
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I like Cook's attempt but it sounded like a rift between Fran and Moore's AAU handlers forced us to back away. I see NW and Wiscy is involved
 
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Fran's struggles at landing even an avg pt guard during his time at Iowa are well known. A point guard was the missing piece to this year's team. Next year's team will again be missing a point guard. It sounds like our top recruit, Cook, is putting the full court press on Illinois' Mr. Basketball, a point guard, Moore. Let's hope he can seal the deal. We need the guy big time.

http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...ommit-tyler-cook-helping-recruiting/83099348/
So our below avg point guard was 3rd in assists (17th nationally), 6th in steals and 2nd (14th nationally) in assist to turnover ratio in the B1G. What are you looking for besides an improvement in end of game situations?
 
Bohannon is a 4* by ESPN,, People try to trash ESPN to prove Bohannon is not any good.

It's unfortunate that anyone would be critical of a kid coming in to the program who hasn't even suited up yet. As I've stated many times before, star ratings are great, but there not a sure fire predictor of how well a kid is going to develop or perform. Numerous examples have already been referenced before (i.e. Aaron White).
 
as for Gesell all he did in his 4 year career was lead IA to 4 straight post seasons appearances win 89 games 3rd most in IA's 100+ year history, back to back 3rd place finishes which has not happened since these years
1986-87 season
1987-88 season

and yet people keep trashing the kid, I will take that from any PG Fran gets,
 
MG broke single season assist record and is 4th all time in Iowa history. Pretty piss poor I guess. Problem is we needed a shooting guard.
 
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For those people who are all about stars, wasn't Mike Gesell a 4-star top 100 recruit? Just because his career didn't go how people may have expected or hoped for, the young man was still highly recruited out of high school. Also, I believe I read somewhere where Tyler Ullis was quoted as saying he was leaning toward Iowa until Kentucky swept in at the last minute.

Anyway, I agree that the criticism of Fran's recruiting efforts are unwarranted.
The criticism of Fran's recruiting efforts for a PG are spot on. MG was at best an avg B1G PG, and I think that's being generous. Ulis doesn't count because he didn't end up at Iowa. I've also read where Iowa wasn't his top 2 choices. The point is that 1 avg PG in Fran's entire tenure at Iowa, is terrible recruiting. PG is the most important position on a basketball team, it's like the QB for football. To make matters worse is Fran has been just as bad recruiting 2 guards, or combo guards.

Fran has done a nice job of recruiting the 3-5's but a terrible job recruiting guards. He's recruited guards who can't shoot beyond the arc and can't beat anyone off the dribble. College bball is all about the guards and Fran is striking out too often.
 
as for Gesell all he did in his 4 year career was lead IA to 4 straight post seasons appearances win 89 games 3rd most in IA's 100+ year history, back to back 3rd place finishes which has not happened since these years
1986-87 season
1987-88 season

and yet people keep trashing the kid, I will take that from any PG Fran gets,
Yes, it had everything to do with MG instead of Uthoff and Jok, a couple of the better players in the B1G. LOL.
 
I'm skeptical of a committed recruit's ability to sway friends to their chosen school based on their friendship alone.

Every year you see posts here about the value of a certain player having a very close friendship with another potential recruit, or high school teammates signing with one school as a "package deal", or a recruit tweeting a tease message to another target, or posting a selfie with a prospect, or some other version of the "player as recruit" .

It almost never pans out. Committed recruits suck at "recruiting" their peers.

Friendship or close relationship with a player / committed recruit is probably the least reliable measure in predicting if another potential recruit signs with the same team .... it has superficial appeal ..... and that's why iowalaw likes the idea.
 
MG broke single season assist record and is 4th all time in Iowa history. Pretty piss poor I guess. Problem is we needed a shooting guard.
Crowing about assists is like crowing about RBI. It's one of the most useless, or at least, overrated stats in evaluating a player's performance. It's totally reliant on the play/performance of others. So, a guy can have 10 assists and they could be due to a teammate having an incredible shooting game, or a guy could have zero assists (even with some amazing passes) because his teammates can't make a layup. Use advance metrics to evaluate a players true value/performance value. Talking about assists is like arguing wins/losses to evaluate a pitchers performance. We need to move past the useless, antiquated stats. MG was an avg PG, an avg guard. His good defense propped him up to avg, otherwise he would have been a below avg guard.
 
MG broke single season assist record and is 4th all time in Iowa history. Pretty piss poor I guess. Problem is we needed a shooting guard.
we did but he was playing the WG while Fran could not find a player to play the 3,

RSFR Ellinbson, FR Flemming, SO Uhl never really took control of a starters role, the loss of Jones hurt far more than people realize,

Uhl became a solid 6th man in the role that Olaseni had, 6th in mpg, 6th in ppg and 3rd in rebounding while leading the team in 3 point shooting @ 46.2%.

next year Uhl's role will expand and looking at who offered he looks pretty good
Temple could not understand why he chose IA over their school,
Maryland offered him
PSU offer
Minnesota offer
NW offer
Miami of Forida a ACC Team offered him as well,
even Syracuse and Indiana were both recruiting him neither offered as both were full.
 
Crowing about assists is like crowing about RBI. It's one of the most useless, or at least, overrated stats in evaluating a player's performance. It's totally reliant on the play/performance of others. So, a guy can have 10 assists and they could be due to a teammate having an incredible shooting game, or a guy could have zero assists (even with some amazing passes) because his teammates can't make a layup. Use advance metrics to evaluate a players true value/performance value. Talking about assists is like arguing wins/losses to evaluate a pitchers performance. We need to move past the useless, antiquated stats. MG was an avg PG, an avg guard. His good defense propped him up to avg, otherwise he would have been a below avg guard.
go follow another team if you hate the players that much also those same player may not have scored W/O those assists,
 
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go follow another team if you hate the players that much also those same player may not have scored W/O those assists,
And they may have scored w/o those assists. That's the point. It's a terrible stat to use to evaluate the ability of a player, but it's the same antiquated thinking we see with old time baseball fans who talk about wins/losses, RBI, batting avg, to evaluate a baseball players performance.

No, I'll remain right here following this team as a fan and trying to provide a little objectivity to offset the misguided opinions of some fans, like yourself. I'm sorry that different opinions frighten you so much that they must be silenced.
 
I was disappointed for Mike that he really had to be the only ballhandler for two years.

More ballhandlers make eachother more effective.

He did do a very admirable job considering pg was not necessarily ideal for his skill set IMO. He didn't make many mistakes but he didn't take allot of chances either. I think he could have been a much more effective player if Iowa had another guard who could have shared the ball handling responsibilities.

Its really to bad Paige didn't come with Mike and Woody. It could have been so much different the past 4 years and last year could have been an all time great team at Iowa.
 
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So our below avg point guard was 3rd in assists (17th nationally), 6th in steals and 2nd (14th nationally) in assist to turnover ratio in the B1G. What are you looking for besides an improvement in end of game situations?
You forgot, Mike is Iowa's all time assist leader.
 
I thought this post, based upon its title, was a discussion about Cook publically reaching out to Charlie Moore and the point guard position for next season. In the end, it becomes yet another debate about the career of Mike Gessell.
That is what happens all too often.
 
we did but he was playing the WG while Fran could not find a player to play the 3,

RSFR Ellinbson, FR Flemming, SO Uhl never really took control of a starters role, the loss of Jones hurt far more than people realize,

Uhl became a solid 6th man in the role that Olaseni had, 6th in mpg, 6th in ppg and 3rd in rebounding while leading the team in 3 point shooting @ 46.2%.

next year Uhl's role will expand and looking at who offered he looks pretty good
Temple could not understand why he chose IA over their school,
Maryland offered him
PSU offer
Minnesota offer
NW offer
Miami of Forida a ACC Team offered him as well,
even Syracuse and Indiana were both recruiting him neither offered as both were full.

If you say Uhl is good because of who offered him why do you think Bohannon is going to be so good when nobody offered him?
 
So our below avg point guard was 3rd in assists (17th nationally), 6th in steals and 2nd (14th nationally) in assist to turnover ratio in the B1G. What are you looking for besides an improvement in end of game situations?


Yeah, he got a lot of assists passing the ball to Jok and Uthoff. Problem was we need a 3rd guy that could score and Gesell was a brick layer himself. Next PG, let's find a guy with more offensive skills.
 
Gessel had one of the worst shooting percentages of any player in the Big Ten conference. Sure, he was lucky enough to pass the ball to a couple of guys who scored 20 points per game. But most of the points they scored were uncontested three pointers. Not exactly a result of the point guard threading the needle and hitting guys in mid stride for wide-open dunks. That is the only kind of assist that matters. I could have had five assists per game playing the amount of minutes he played with the roster we had.

No, it is a fact that Fran has yet to land a difference maker point guard or even an average big 10 point guard.
 
Looking forward for the Cook era to begin! Hopefully he dominates and other 4 star recruits want to line up to play alongside him.
 
All of you losers bashing Gesell couldn't hold his jock strap. He was a scholar athlete, four year starter for the Hawks and will probably be far more successful in his life than all of you petty whiners.

Mike, thank you for many great memories!
 
I thought this post, based upon its title, was a discussion about Cook publically reaching out to Charlie Moore and the point guard position for next season. In the end, it becomes yet another debate about the career of Mike Gessell.

One of the reasons this board has become unbearable as of late. I keep coming back hoping for change, yet it remains the same. Guess i will try again next weekend.
 
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For anyone who has seen both, how does Bohannon compare quickness-wise to Mike G? I loved watching Gesell compete. Felt he was just a few % points (shooting) from being a truly elite PG.
 
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Crowing about assists is like crowing about RBI. It's one of the most useless, or at least, overrated stats in evaluating a player's performance. It's totally reliant on the play/performance of others. Talking about assists is like arguing wins/losses to evaluate a pitchers performance. We need to move past the useless, antiquated stats.

Please cease these dumb uninformed blatherings about baseball; bad enough that you constantly display your ignorance about hoops without trashing truths about a game whose basic playing rules and practices have survived and prospered for 150 years. People who know the game are aware that stats have to be understood in the context of batting order, type of offense, matchups, 162 game schedule, etc.etc. A stat like RBI used in relationship to the OBP & baserunning of batters preceeding him---his run-scoring opportunities, live ball or dead ball era, managerial style---hit & run, Earl Weaver's 3-run HR, etc, and the duration---number of games/playoffs & the like---has always been recognized by astute baseball men as an exceedingly meaningful measure of offensive value.

And wins/losses reflect durability, endurance, conditioning, determination, conditioning both physical and emotional, and ability to help himself with both glove & bat. Only a pretentious moron would babble about the improtance of any single stat out of the overall setting of team's performance in the field and offensively: yes, occasionally in rare instances a Ralph Kiner or Ernie Banks leads in all the power categories and is the MVP, and just as rarely a pitcher like Steve Carlton wins 28 while losing only a 4th as many games. But what makes baseball uniquely a game that meshes individual performance with that of the team is how EVERY player's statistical measurements are integrated into team performance in every game for the full course of the season.

Those who foolishly believe baseball is played by"draft selections" on the internet are especially ignorant of such attributes as speed, fielding range, throwing strength & accuracy, and defensive & baserunning skills--- almost entirely so. The childish ignorance that amuses me most is the "analytics" crowd's use of OPS in place of XBH, HR & RBIs (OPS actually counts base hits twice, but ignores totally stolen bases, SB % of success, extra bases taken % runs scored as consequence in a supposedly precise measurement of offensive contributions).

(Oh, and that reflects a priceless distortion & reversal of the meaning of "analytical": an analytical proposition is the opposite of a synthetic proposition. Analytic statements express only LOGICAL relationships (TRUTHS), which are by definition ABSTRACT as in HYPOTHETICAL models---unlike SYNTHETIC statements (what we normally call FACTS), which describe the empirical ("real") world.

ALL STATISTICS are attempts at measurement of distances, frequencies, conditions of empirical reality, and thus are necessarily synthetic propositions. They have nothing to do with analytical/logical relationships. And the sensible conclusion to be drawn from this obvious failure to grasp the very nature of statistical method and the probability theory derived from it, point directly to the reasons why they abuse statistics so badly.
 
In my opinion the biggest knock against Mike was that he rarely beat his guy off the dribble. When the clock was was winding down, either end of game, end of shot clock or whatever, our PG couldn't create his own shot or create a help situation where a shot for someone else was created. The guy that has the ball in his hands every possession needs this ability, imo.

That said, I wouldn't have traded Mike. He was a great player for Iowa. Good defender. Solid mid range pull up jumper. Great athleticism. Good defense.
 
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You forgot, Mike is Iowa's all time assist leader.
actually Herner is the all time leader with over 600 assists , Woolridge is 2nd with over 570 and Gesell is now 3rd with over 550 but he is the single season assist leader with over 200 assist, Gesell also led the BT in steals but according to Hanson hawk and others those are meaningless stats,

anything to justifying his trashing of Gesell.

Gesell did not lead this team to the National Championship and lead the nation in scoring, so in his warped mind Gesell is/was the absolute worst PG in IA history. then claims he is providing some objective thinking. to cover for trashing Gesell.
 
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