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COVID-19 Thread

Have you considered the relationship between these two sentences? You claim to want the science, not a political statement, but as soon as scientists contradict your political priors, you reject it.
How has science contradicted my political priors? All you need is common sense to see that the protests are the reason why we're seeing this latest surge. But we'll never know for sure because mayors of these large cities specifically instructed their contact tracers to NOT ask if a person attended a protest. What was the scientific reasoning behind that?

https://nypost.com/2020/07/19/nyc-contact-tracers-will-ask-about-dining-not-protests/
 
How has science contradicted my political priors? All you need is common sense to see that the protests are the reason why we're seeing this latest surge. But we'll never know for sure because mayors of these large cities specifically instructed their contact tracers to NOT ask if a person attended a protest. What was the scientific reasoning behind that?

https://nypost.com/2020/07/19/nyc-contact-tracers-will-ask-about-dining-not-protests/

I agree they should ask people who test positive for all places that they were in public, including protests.

However I don't think there's any evidence that I've seen to suggest the virus "spread rampant" as you said earlier during the protests.

I'm sure New York probably had some of the largest protests right? And yet their numbers are among the best currently of US states despite being awful at the start of this.

Even Minnesota where Floyd died seems to be only recently (like in the last 2 weeks) seeing a modest rise in new cases (deaths have been trending down since June), where new cases are still about 15% less than the peak which was basically the day Floyd died on 5/25.
 
How has science contradicted my political priors? All you need is common sense to see that the protests are the reason why we're seeing this latest surge. But we'll never know for sure because mayors of these large cities specifically instructed their contact tracers to NOT ask if a person attended a protest. What was the scientific reasoning behind that?

https://nypost.com/2020/07/19/nyc-contact-tracers-will-ask-about-dining-not-protests/
The latest science indicates that the chances of outdoor transmission, especially when masks are worn, are pretty low. Your "common sense" contradicts the science, while mapping onto your political opposition to the protests. "Common Sense" is commonly wrong. That's the point of my post.

Of course there's a chance that the protests contributed to a surge, but the high rate of mask usage and that it was outdoors makes that less likely than the surge being because of the reopening of indoor spaces like bars and restaurants where the chances of transmission are much higher.
 
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Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT, the state is entitled to impose conditions on the exercise of that privilege.

You are born with RIGHTS. You must pass a test and agree to certain terms and conditions for the PRIVILEGE to drive.
Are indecent exposure laws unconstitutional?
 
Early in the spring the CDC and the US Surgeon General advised against using masks. At the time there was uncertainty about mask supply and airborne transmission wasn't viewed as a primary source of contagion.

Since the early spring, face mask supplies have stabilized and it is now widely understood that airborne transmission is a significant source of spread especially under certain conditions i.e. indoors, poor air circulation, close proximity to others.

For those having a tough time moving past statements from March and for those who want to make this a constitutional issue about freedom, consider a recent statement from the US Surgeon General, "Wearing a face mask will give you more freedoms...face coverings lead to less viral spread which leads to more places open, and sooner."

With that said, if someone tries to tell me to put a mask on while I'm mowing my lawn they can kiss my rear and the rear of my John Deere. But if I'm at a store or place of business or an indoor public venue I'm masking up. It's not a political issue or a cultural statement it's a decision about personal hygiene. Like washing your hands after using the bathroom and showering after wrestling.
 
Absolutely disgusting what this thread has devolved into... Some of you should be incredibly ashamed of yourselves.

This thread is basically a case study of exactly what is wrong with America today.

“The sign of intelligence is that you are constantly wondering.... Idiots are always dead sure about every damn thing they are doing in their life.”

-Vasudev
 
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Here's an interesting study on the protests - https://www.nber.org/papers/w27408.pdf

Probably still too early to tell the full effects, but seems the theory is that the virus did likely spread at the protests, however people that did NOT attend the protests likely stayed home more, so net social distancing apparently increased.

One theory that may be possible is that some of the younger people at the protests caught it, but had either no or mild symptoms and thus didn't get tested, and may have spread it to friends/family members where the cases are now showing up. But again as of right now there doesn't seem to be much if anything indicating protests were a major factor where cases are increasing.
 
Our country is being led off a cliff by Trump. We’re closer to civil war than we have been since Lincoln was president.

This is getting serious. I’m done humoring and done trying to educate those pushing for the end of the rule of law and advocating for the beginning of authoritarian rule.

Keep fiddling while Rome burns. That’s your constitutional right.
I seriously think you might need medication.
 
And a mask requirement wouldn't protect children?
Play your attempt at a gotcha with someone else. I'm not playing. I don't ask those who support abortions why they support masks, so don't ask me why I want to protect children from deviants but don't support mandatory masks.
 
And a mask requirement wouldn't protect children?

Honest question, do you have kids?

how does requiring anything from them over and over and over tend to work out?

I had to explain to my nephew once that calling 911 because his sister won’t change the channel is wrong.

two weeks later he called them because he couldn’t reach the cupboard with the candy in it and no one would give him any.

he was 4. How well do you think masks will work out with kids?
 
We should burn this thread down just like some of the precincts and businesses so it can never be opened again. Everyone is a F'N expert but even the experts have changed their minds 20 times. While I am not a Trump advocate putting Biden in office is a joke as well. Dems will be in control over everything and try to run roughshod over anybody they have to to get their agenda through and we will all have to deal with it. One thing he got right though is that if that happens I think there will be a revolt and this country will be worse off. Just my thoughts on the whole thing. Lets get term limits in office and it would be nice if there was a 3rd party that didnt answer to either that actually had a chance at office.
 
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You say Germany isn't comparable to U.S.

Take the entire EU then. The population of the EU is actually 33% larger than the US, while the GDP is smaller by 15%.

Here's how the covid cases stack up:

oki1OZH.png


Why the difference is a question you should be asking yourself. Canada and Japan are thrown in as well, both with curves similar to the EU.

There are step by step recommendations on how to mitigate the virus effects.

So the answer as to why the difference in EU and US lies in large part, to the fact that generally Europe had leaders that listened to their health experts.

Sadly our leader has not.
Just last week Japan hit a 3 month high in cases. Does that not fit your narrative of the US being the only country dealing with Covid? Maybe that's our leaders fault too.
 
We should burn this thread down just like some of the precincts and businesses so it can never be opened again. Everyone is a F'N expert but even the experts have changed their minds 20 times. While I am not a Trump advocate putting Biden in office is a joke as well. Dems will be in control over everything and try to run roughshod over anybody they have to to get their agenda through and we will all have to deal with it. One thing he got right though is that if that happens I think there will be a revolt and this country will be worse off. Just my thoughts on the whole thing. Lets get term limits in office and it would be nice if there was a 3rd party that didnt answer to either that actually had a chance at office.
Total nonsense and fearmongering doesn't help us. Being constructive helps us.
 
Just last week Japan hit a 3 month high in cases. Does that not fit your narrative of the US being the only country dealing with Covid? Maybe that's our leaders fault too.
As of this week, Japan has 988 Covid-19 deaths. USA has 140,630 Covid-19 deaths.
 
Honest question, do you have kids?

how does requiring anything from them over and over and over tend to work out?

I had to explain to my nephew once that calling 911 because his sister won’t change the channel is wrong.

two weeks later he called them because he couldn’t reach the cupboard with the candy in it and no one would give him any.

he was 4. How well do you think masks will work out with kids?
Not sure what your point is. I'm well aware children can be difficult. Even if no child keeps their mask on, adults wearing them makes kids safer.
 
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Play your attempt at a gotcha with someone else. I'm not playing. I don't ask those who support abortions why they support masks, so don't ask me why I want to protect children from deviants but don't support mandatory masks.
Not my fault you couldn't answer basic questions about a position you stated so confidently. Things are complicated.
 
Total nonsense and fearmongering doesn't help us. Being constructive helps us.
I stated they were my thoughts but you came back with a very constructive response. My apologies, I should have known better and bowed to the almighty Dem. I said I am not a Trump backer but Joe Biden is a POS as well. If I stated why I think that maybe it would not be constructive in your eyes. People hate Trump so much, and a lot of it is well deserved, but good 'ol racist hack Joe that has been in office for how many years is the answer. I will end with this, media and government are so corrupt that I firmly believe that something very bad will have to happen before this country turns a corner.

P.S. Riots and protesting didn't lead to an uptick in cases!!!! Read that and if you can tell me this isn't politically driven and complete BS, because they cannot prove it either way because it is common sense, then you are part of the problem as well. I have no idea why I am even writing this either because keyboarding warriors don't change anyone's mind. Peace out!
 
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I stated they were my thoughts but you came back with a very constructive response. My apologies, I should have known better and bowed to the almighty Dem. I said I am not a Trump backer but Joe Biden is a POS as well. If I stated why I think that maybe it would not be constructive in your eyes. People hate Trump so much, and a lot of it is well deserved, but good 'ol racist hack Joe that has been in office for how many years is the answer. I will end with this, media and government are so corrupt that I firmly believe that something very bad will have to happen before this country turns a corner.

P.S. Riots and protesting didn't lead to an uptick in cases!!!! Read that and if you can tell me this isn't politically driven and complete BS, because they cannot prove it either way because it is common sense, then you are part of the problem as well. I have no idea why I am even writing this either because keyboarding warriors don't change anyone's mind. Peace out!
Not a Democrat nor a Biden lover, but I agree: Peace out!
 
I stated they were my thoughts but you came back with a very constructive response. My apologies, I should have known better and bowed to the almighty Dem. I said I am not a Trump backer but Joe Biden is a POS as well. If I stated why I think that maybe it would not be constructive in your eyes. People hate Trump so much, and a lot of it is well deserved, but good 'ol racist hack Joe that has been in office for how many years is the answer. I will end with this, media and government are so corrupt that I firmly believe that something very bad will have to happen before this country turns a corner.

P.S. Riots and protesting didn't lead to an uptick in cases!!!! Read that and if you can tell me this isn't politically driven and complete BS, because they cannot prove it either way because it is common sense, then you are part of the problem as well. I have no idea why I am even writing this either because keyboarding warriors don't change anyone's mind. Peace out!
Well said, and no the wacko left won't listen. They're blinded by the hate they have for this country(and yet their still here, having done nothing to defend our way of life). Wait till they try to feed their families if they win---fail.
 
Well said, and no the wacko left won't listen. They're blinded by the hate they have for this country(and yet their still here, having done nothing to defend our way of life). Wait till they try to feed their families if they win---fail.
Explain what, having done nothing to defend our way of life means.
 
Well said, and no the wacko left won't listen. They're blinded by the hate they have for this country(and yet their still here, having done nothing to defend our way of life). Wait till they try to feed their families if they win---fail.
*guy who's been ranting that people who disagree with him politically are traitors and destroying the country*

"Yeah, the problem with the left is that they're blinded by hate."
 
Explain what, having done nothing to defend our way of life means.
Well what it doesn't mean is burning, looting and killing to bring a system of govt that has never worked in any other country in the world,EVER. You want to change things, go vote for things that don't destroy the best form of govt the world has ever known. Note we don't build walls to keep people in, you're all welcomed to leave if this is an intolerble system to you.
 
As of this week, Japan has 988 Covid-19 deaths. USA has 140,630 Covid-19 deaths.
why did their cases spike. The graph on the post I was replying to had Japan flatlined. Why is Australia lockdown areas for the 2nd time. I thought locking down for 15 days was supposed to do the trick.. Reading posts here and watching the MSM you'd think we were the only ones dealing with Covid in July.
 
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Well what it doesn't mean is burning, looting and killing to bring a system of govt that has never worked in any other country in the world,EVER. You want to change things, go vote for things that don't destroy the best form of govt the world has ever known. Note we don't build walls to keep people in, you're all welcomed to leave if this is an intolerble system to you.
I asked you what it meant.
 
Have to agree with covid...er kwoodhawk. Wearing a mask is like mandated car insurance. The insurance isn't for me, but the guy I run into. It protects others from my irresponsible driving potential. Much like wearing a mask, iut helps in the event I screw up

Actually the mandated car insurance is for you also. And any innocent bystander walking downd the sidewalk. It protects the Banker if there is a loan on the vehicle. Lots of benefits for lots of people.

Unfortunately I get to see how good my insurance is tomorrow as I just got a call from one of my employees who slid into a telephone pole with a company truck tonight on a slick street. luckily no one injured as he avoided an oncoming vehicle.

Don't know if he was wearing a mask at the time though............:)
 
Just last week Japan hit a 3 month high in cases. Does that not fit your narrative of the US being the only country dealing with Covid? Maybe that's our leaders fault too.

Japan has had a rise recently that is similar to what they experienced in April, so you're correct. But my narrative has never been the US is "the only country dealing with covid."

Japan is not alone in that regard. Croatia, Serbia, Australia and Hong Kong are all experiencing new rises.

But keep in mind that Japan's numbers were relatively small to begin with, so matching that recently, did not take a huge number.

Even with the recent rise, Japan's numbers are miniscule compared to the US numbers. They're miniscule compared to Florida. Japan's numbers are small even compared to Miami Dade county in Florida.

Consider, to date:

Japan (population 126.5m):
26,432 total covid cases, with 3516 new cases in last 7 days.

Florida (pop 21.5m):
360,394 total covid cases, with over 70,000 new in last 7 days. Miami Dade county had 2522 new cases one day - Tuesday.

Hard to sugarcoat it... the US has failed badly in managing covid. Only Brazil comes close to us.
 
Well what it doesn't mean is burning, looting and killing to bring a system of govt that has never worked in any other country in the world,EVER. You want to change things, go vote for things that don't destroy the best form of govt the world has ever known. Note we don't build walls to keep people in, you're all welcomed to leave if this is an intolerble system to you.

Of the people rioting/protesting that actually wanted something besides a TV, I don’t think most of them wanted to “bring in a new system of government.” They mostly just wanted some police reform and for the bad cops to be held accountable. In many places, it has worked - https://thehill.com/changing-americ...ck-lives-matter-protests-have-achieved-so?amp

Not sure what this really has to do with covid though unless we’re going back to the question of did the protests cause cases to rise. I agree with someone’s earlier post, common sense” would probably tell you that it should have. But when you have huge cities that have had huge protests where their states are even seeing declining cases, and many states seeing cases pretty flat, as well as the mounting evidence that masks work and that outdoor transmission is less likely, it may not actually be the case. Probably still too early to really tell though.

Besides, if we’re talking about common sense, shouldn’t it be common sense that covering your face with a mask should help slow the spread?
 
Of the people rioting/protesting that actually wanted something besides a TV, I don’t think most of them wanted to “bring in a new system of government.” They mostly just wanted some police reform and for the bad cops to be held accountable. In many places, it has worked - https://thehill.com/changing-americ...ck-lives-matter-protests-have-achieved-so?amp

Not sure what this really has to do with covid though unless we’re going back to the question of did the protests cause cases to rise. I agree with someone’s earlier post, common sense” would probably tell you that it should have. But when you have huge cities that have had huge protests where their states are even seeing declining cases, and many states seeing cases pretty flat, as well as the mounting evidence that masks work and that outdoor transmission is less likely, it may not actually be the case. Probably still too early to really tell though.

Besides, if we’re talking about common sense, shouldn’t it be common sense that covering your face with a mask should help slow the spread?
Didnt LA have multiple weeks of big protests and aren't they contemplating a 2nd stay at home order because of surging cases? They've been trending up since the end of June. Common sense tells us it had nothing to do with the protest though. I'm sure everyone stayed 6 ft apart and covered their nose and mouth with their mask at all times in between chants.
 
Didnt LA have multiple weeks of big protests and aren't they contemplating a 2nd stay at home order because of surging cases? They've been trending up since the end of June. Common sense tells us it had nothing to do with the protest though. I'm sure everyone stayed 6 ft apart and covered their nose and mouth with their mask at all times in between chants.

And they also started reopening before the protests. But I think LA is literally the only specific city where I’ve seen the protests cited as a legitimate concern for why cases have risen, with no real data to back it up. And even if it did cause a rise in LA, what about all the rest including several that have even had declining cases?

I know there was a story about contact tracers in some places not asking if they attended protests. Apparently in Seattle they did, and in one 19-day span less than 5% of new positive tests had attended protests - https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...ar-to-be-driving-virus-surge-researchers-say/
 
Well said, and no the wacko left won't listen. They're blinded by the hate they have for this country(and yet their still here, having done nothing to defend our way of life). Wait till they try to feed their families if they win---fail.
This is an extremist view. Most Americans don't feel this way, and very few hate this country. Your way of life will be fine, and so will we, unless we melt down from the stress.
 
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Well what it doesn't mean is burning, looting and killing to bring a system of govt that has never worked in any other country in the world,EVER. You want to change things, go vote for things that don't destroy the best form of govt the world has ever known. Note we don't build walls to keep people in, you're all welcomed to leave if this is an intolerble system to you.
And so are you, but please don't. We need all Hawk fans to stay put! ;)
 
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This thread is going to reach meltdown phase in five-six months when a vaccine is available but we can't reach herd immunity because half the people won't take it; FWIW estimates are it will take 75-85% of people getting vaccinated to reach herd immunity.

Nightmares of a lost NCAA Championship might be a good motivator but don't count on it. 55% of adults opt out of the flu vaccine each year for all sorts of reasons and people who are vaccine-hesitant come from all backgrounds i.e. income, political affiliation, race, education, etc.
 
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Of the people rioting/protesting that actually wanted something besides a TV, I don’t think most of them wanted to “bring in a new system of government.” They mostly just wanted some police reform and for the bad cops to be held accountable. In many places, it has worked - https://thehill.com/changing-americ...ck-lives-matter-protests-have-achieved-so?amp

Not sure what this really has to do with covid though unless we’re going back to the question of did the protests cause cases to rise. I agree with someone’s earlier post, common sense” would probably tell you that it should have. But when you have huge cities that have had huge protests where their states are even seeing declining cases, and many states seeing cases pretty flat, as well as the mounting evidence that masks work and that outdoor transmission is less likely, it may not actually be the case. Probably still too early to really tell though.

Besides, if we’re talking about common sense, shouldn’t it be common sense that covering your face with a mask should help slow the spread?

Most of the States with large surges in Covid cases seem to be in the southern half of the U.S. and i really don't remember there being a lot of protests in those states that could be attributed to their case rise. Thinking mostly opening early and fast without masks in place. Could be wrong of course.
 
This thread is going to reach meltdown phase in five-six months when a vaccine is available but we can't reach herd immunity because half the people won't take it; FWIW estimates are it will take 75-85% of people getting vaccinated to reach herd immunity.

Nightmares of a lost NCAA Championship might be a good motivator but don't count on it. 55% of adults opt out of the flu vaccine each year for all sorts of reasons and people who are vaccine-hesitant come from all backgrounds i.e. income, political affiliation, race, education, etc.

Early estimates of 75% of people getting infected to reach herd immunity with this particular virus because of it's ease of transmission. However the concept of herd immunity is now in question with how quickly the antibodies drop off in some people who were infected. Perhaps the vaccine will be able to induce longer lasting immunity than just the virus itself.

Just yesterday was reading about confirmed re-infections in Dr. and Nurses in Iran who were hit harder by the virus 2nd time around and some who died from the re-infection. Unconfirmed re-infection cases being reported in the general public there also. Re-infections, if they show up in high enough numbers, cast a lot of doubt on herd immunity. Iran was infected early on like Italy was because of their economic connection to China and direct airline flights.
 
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