Current Team versus 2011-2012 Team

[HellaHawk]

I see quite a few parallels between this team and the 2011-2012 team that went 18-17 and won one game in the NIT. This is around where most are predicting the Hawkeyes this year. Comparing the line-ups, I see a similar talent level, but this year's team has more depth, and a much better inside presence.

Both teams were led by a senior shooting guard: Matt Gatens v. Peter Jok. Gatents played really well in the Big Ten that year. I see these players talent levels as a push.

Both teams had a 6'6 sophomore combo guard: Christian Williams v. Devon Marble. Williams could end up being as good, but have to give Marble the advantage here.

Both team had a 6'1 point guard: Bryce Cartwright v. Jordan Bohannon. Like Cartwright, Bohannon can scored but may have defensive issues. I say this is a push. Bohannon should be much better by the time he is a senior.

Both teams had a skinny, hustling forward: Nick Baer (So.) v. Aaron White (Fr.). White was an inch taller and had a better post game. Baer has the better outside shot. Advantage White who had a very good stat line as a Freshman.

Both teams had a 6'7 sophomore power forward: Wagner v. Basabe. Basabe gained weight as a sophomore and did not play that well. Both players were working on expanding their range as sophomores. Advantage Wagner, who doesn't seem to be slowed down by gaining muscle.

Both teams had a guy who could shoot threes and not do much else: Ogelsby v. Ellingson. Ogelsby was not great (but not terrible as a Freshman). That seems like a realistic outcome for Ellingson this season. Push.

Both teams had a European: Uhl (Jr.) v. Olaseni (Fr.). Olaseni was clearly better as a junior, but he was not very good as a Freshman. I'll take Uhl.

Both teams had a 6'9 stretch forward: Brommer (Sr.) v. Kriener. I haven't seen Kriener play, but I will still take him over Brommer who I remember being not at all good at basketball.

After this, the comparisons start getting more ridiculous:

Eric May (Jr.) v. Moss/Dailey: These players aren't that similar. May was clearly better, at least as a Junior.

McCabe (So.) v. Pemsl (Fr.): These players really aren't that similar. But McCabe was forced to play center for his team, because there were no other options. I'd rather have Pemsl than McCabe as my only option at center. But McCabe did some things well, like shooting threes. I'll say push.

Tyler Cook (Sr.) v. Devon Archie (Sr.): They were both 6'9. Not much else to say. Tyler Cook is obviously way way better. There was no one on that 2011-2012 team that had anything like his skill set. If this team does better than the 2011-2012 team, it will be because they have a much better group of forwards including most prominently Tyler Cook.

 

[StormHawk42]

Not bad.

My God I remember Gatens' hot streak to end the season. That was amazing to watch. Glad he got a taste of postseason after 3 years of terrible teams. Dude just wanted to live his dream and be a Hawk no matter what.

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

The skill sets of this present Hawkeye team are far far superior. I don't even know where to begin, shakes my head

 

[LaoHawk]

Agreed on the far far superiority of athletes on this year's team. Not knocking Gatens (love him and wish he could have played on a better team) but Jok is more athletic and a hot shooter, Gatens may have Jok beat on stamina though. I would not be surprised to see Jok get into high scoring of 30s this year or even one around 40 for good measure. When it's a hot night for Jok, I don't see him deferring too much, it's his team and he will be aggressive. Like some of the fewer posters, I think IA will be dancing, it will happen with too many good pieces this year.

 

[hawki1968]

Fun thread.

I would approach it a bit differently by simply comparing them position by position.

Point Guard: Despite being awful on defense, the edge has to go to Cartwright until either of our players prove themselves. Cartwright led the B1G in assists that year, and he was pretty clutch in close games.

Shooting Guard: As great as Matrix Gatens was for a string of games, the edge goes to Jok. Gatens was the superior defender, but Jok is a returning second team ALL-B1G player and crucial member of two very good Iowa teams.

Small Forward: Marble was a factor in spots, but his impact was not really felt until the next year (minus the Oregon NIT game). In competition with sophomore Marble, Baer isn't too far off. That written, Marble is clearly the pick.

Power Forward: Freshmen White replaced Basabe in the starting lineup. This will probably be unpopular, but I'll take junior Uhl or sophomore Wagner over freshmen White and sophomore Basabe. White was awful on defense that year, and Basabe was just horrendous. Like it or not, but Uhl is a pretty well known commodity and has had great games against the elite of the BIG10.

Center: This is where a gaping, flapping hole appears between the two teams. McCabe was Iowa's de facto center. My goodness, nobody ever drew more charges without getting the call than Zach McCabe! The sample size is small, but Cook vs McCabe would be an epic mismatch. Mind you, this is sophomore McCabe.

Bench: Hard to gauge because of this year's lack of experience, but let's be frank: the Lick holdovers make that group pretty unimpressive.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Agreed on the far far superiority of athletes on this year's team. Not knocking Gatens (love him and wish he could have played on a better team) but Jok is more athletic and a hot shooter, Gatens may have Jok beat on stamina though. I would not be surprised to see Jok get into high scoring of 30s this year or even one around 40 for good measure. When it's a hot night for Jok, I don't see him deferring too much, it's his team and he will be aggressive. Like some of the fewer posters, I think IA will be dancing, it will happen with too many good pieces this year.

Yeah but who is the better defensive team?

 

[Suterman]

I think the 2 teams will end with almost identical records. I think it's a great parallel.

 

[StormHawk42]

Fun thread.

I would approach it a bit differently by simply comparing them position by position.

Point Guard: Despite being awful on defense, the edge has to go to Cartwright until either of our players prove themselves. Cartwright led the B1G in assists that year, and he was pretty clutch in close games.

Shooting Guard: As great as Matrix Gatens was for a string of games, the edge goes to Jok. Gatens was the superior defender, but Jok is a returning second team ALL-B1G player and crucial member of two very good Iowa teams.

Small Forward: Marble was a factor in spots, but his impact was not really felt until the next year (minus the Oregon NIT game). In competition with sophomore Marble, Baer isn't too far off. That written, Marble is clearly the pick.

Power Forward: Freshmen White replaced Basabe in the starting lineup. This will probably be unpopular, but I'll take junior Uhl or sophomore Wagner over freshmen White and sophomore Basabe. White was awful on defense that year, and Basabe was just horrendous. Like it or not, but Uhl is a pretty well known commodity and has had great games against the elite of the BIG10.

Center: This is where a gaping, flapping hole appears between the two teams. McCabe was Iowa's de facto center. My goodness, nobody ever draw more charges without getting the call than Zach McCabe! The sample size is small, but Cook vs McCabe would be an epic mismatch. Mind you, this is sophomore McCabe.

Bench: Hard to gauge because of this year's lack of experience, but let's be frank: the Lick holdovers make that group pretty unimpressive.

Beware of the BromArch

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

The disparity in talent from this year to even last year is night and day. Yes it needs to he'll but it will and very likely sooner than most people think.

 

[LaoHawk]

Yeah but who is the better defensive team?

This year's team should definitely be better just by athletics alone. Like Cook said about defense and being young, it's about effort and I don't see this year's team will lack any effort, except for Uhl, he's just to European cool about his attitude.

 

[Suterman]

This year's team should definitely be better just by athletics alone. Like Cook said about defense and being young, it's about effort and I don't see this year's team will lack any effort, except for Uhl, he's just to European cool about his attitude.

Yes this years team is more athletic but that does mean they will have more wins than the 2011-2012 team did. I think the records will be almost identical.

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

Yes this years team is more athletic but that does mean they will have more wins than the 2011-2012 team did. I think the records will be almost identical.

I think the schedule in 2012 was much, much tougher.

 

[torbee]

Very nice breakdown - well done!

The wild card that makes this team just abbot better than that one is Cook, IMO. He will have growing pains, but I think he's a transcendent talent type. If he matures fast, I think Iowa is a solid bubble team.

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

What? That year Fran had to defend the schedule explaining that the team had to "learn how to win" if I recall correctly... this year we play Seton Hall, Virginia (N), Providence/Memphis (N), @ Notre Dame, Iowa State and UNI (N). Did my sarcasm meter go on the fritz or something?

 

[StormHawk42]

What? That year Fran had to defend the schedule explaining that the team had to "learn how to win" if I recall correctly... this year we play Seton Hall, Virginia (N), Providence/Memphis (N), @ Notre Dame, Iowa State and UNI (N). Did my sarcasm meter go on the fritz or something?

Wasn't that the following year? Gesell and Woody's freshmen years? I could be wrong.

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

Yes - I've been misreading the entire thread thinking 12-13 not 11-12. Carry on!

 

[ThamesHawk]

Agree with most of it. May also just had a hustle that most players can't match.

 

[DanL53]

Here are the stats from that season.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2294/year/2012

As I recall Cartwright and May both played dinged up all season.

I don't really see the comparison that much, myself.

Cartwright 23.7 mpg, 6 ppg, 48.25 A/T, Marble 29.5 mpg, 11.5 ppg, 3.6/1.7 A/T, Gatens 34.6 mpg, 15.2 ppg, Oglesby 18.7 mpg, May 14.7 mpg.

There's your guards and wings. Total 121.2 mpg and the pg spot is apparent.

We've got Williams, Bohannon, Jok, Baer for sure and plenty of depth beyond. There was no depth beyond those guys in 2011/12. But let's say all is equal here?

White, Basabe, McCabe. There's your PF/C guys. And they only managed a total of 60.3 mpg, that last 20 being a mix of Brommer 7.9 and two guys who only played eighteen games, Olaseni, 5.0 mpg, Archie, 7.5 mpg. We're STILL five minutes short at the big spots. That's some desperation playing small and just trying to survive right there.

As opposed to Uhl, Wagner, Jones, Cook Kriener, Pemsl? I'll take the potential of Cook, Wagner and Uhl over White, Basabe, McCabe any time. And our other three, some might push those in our top three for minutes.

Our team this season reminds me of the 2012/13 bunch.

The 2011/12 team not so much.

 

[mazda1]

We are a bubble team at best. Not much difference in the two groups. I love Cook, but if he reaches the level White did at the end of his senior year I'll be very pleased.

Until this team proves it can regulary hold teams with a pulse to under 80 points, any game is going to be dog fight for us.

One thing yet to be proven is leadership. Gaten's and May were terrific in that area.

 

[DanL53]

We are a bubble team at best. Not much difference in the two groups. I love Cook, but if he reaches the level White did at the end of his senior year I'll be very pleased.

Until this team proves it can regulary hold teams with a pulse to under 80 points, any game is going to be dog fight for us.

One thing yet to be proven is leadership. Gaten's and May were terrific in that area.

As I recall White was a freshman on that team?
May was commonly criticized by the fans, as a junior?
Gatens went through a spell where he couldn't miss. But I hardly think Jok will not have games like that.

And, the 2011/12 team finished 206th in the country in defensive efficiency (Kenpom), I don't think it is a stretch to say 2016/17 can do better than that.

 

[Suterman]

As I recall White was a freshman on that team?
May was commonly criticized by the fans, as a junior?
Gatens went through a spell where he couldn't miss. But I hardly think Jok will not have games like that.

And, the 2011/12 team finished 206th in the country in defensive efficiency (Kenpom), I don't think it is a stretch to say 2016/17 can do better than that.

Yes they should finish better than 206th in defense this year, but I DO believe defense will be a big problem at times for this years team.