Debate: Is Phelps Greatest Athlete Ever?

[McLovin32]

I'm not sure. This guy makes some valid points. But I also don't necessarily think an athlete has to "face a defense," in order to prove how great of an athlete he/she is.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/t...-not-the-greatest-athlete-ever-171803346.html

 

[McLovin32]

Also note, this author said he wouldn't even put Phelps ahead of a chubby Babe Ruth.

 

[Huey Grey]

My vote goes to Jack Johnson. Anytime the government rewrites federal rules to try to take the wind out of your sails, it's pretty conclusive proof that you're too good for the competition.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Bo Jackson. Size, speed, strength, hand/eye coordination. 1 sport makes it hard to say greatest athlete. Heck the heptathletes and decathletes in theory are better athletes.

 

[2facedboonefan]

Also note, this author said he wouldn't even put Phelps ahead of a chubby Babe Ruth.

That's a bit silly. Babe Ruth was a great baseball player in his era, but if I had to pick between him and Phelps to participate in a random sport, I'm picking Phelps for literally everything named baseball.

 

[Joes Place]

Jim Thorpe

I think someone on here listed how many WRs he held at one point.

Swimming is a bit biased because of how many events and different swim strokes there are; there is no comparison in track and field - we don't have a backwards run, a 100m hop, a 100m skip, etc.

 

[33hawkfan]

LeBron

 

[WORTHYWISH]

 

[HawkFantastic]

Swimmer? Perhaps. Athlete? No. Dumb writer (not the OP) writing a dumb article.

Athlete should encompass more than one athletic discipline. Historically it would be Jim Thorpe AINEC. Modern history it's probably Bo, Charlie Ward or even Jim Brown....?

 

[Joes Place]

Actually it was this post on Paavo Yrjola

So Jim Thorpe, Daley Thompson, or the Finnish "Bear of Hameenkyro", Paavo Yrjola.

Everyone knows Thorpe multi-sport accomplishments, but I heard about Yrjola on a radio story. At one time held the world record in...

• 100 m: 11.6 s
• long jump: 676
• shot put: 14.72 m (1930)[1]
• high jump: 187 cm (1924)[1]
• 400 m: 51.9
• 110 m hurdles: 15.5
• discus throw: 43.26
• pole vault: 330
• javelin: 62.15
• 1500 m: 4.26:8
• decathlon: 6700 points[1] (8117 with then current scoring tables) in 1930
• pentathlon:

That's INSANE!

 

[fivecardstud14]

The King (not Felix).

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I know Thorpe had amazing numbers but:

When Jackson was in hs, he weighed 218 lbs was a 6'9" high jumper, pole vaulted 12'6" with a pole made for a 185 lb person. State triple jump record. 9.7 in the 100yd dash. There the shot over 50' and discus over 150'
4.12 is still the nfl combine record.
Not just a member of an nfl or mlb team but an all pro in both.
The way I look at players from the early 1900's: not everyone was playing sports. Some of the greatest athletes may have been working on the farm or never seen or heard of. Therefore you could play multiple sports, less competition; especially with no blacks
That was not a problem in Bo's generation. Top talent gets id'ed.

 

[Joes Place]

Some of the greatest athletes may have been working on the farm or never seen or heard of.

....wouldn't that make them 'farmers' rather than 'athletes'?

Being 'in shape' and 'strong' doesn't make you a top athlete. Larry Bird never looked like much of a basketball player, and often looked clumsy/lumbering on the court; but he had a knack for 'court presence', passing and shooting.

I don't think you can really objectively compare today's athletes with all the training and facilities they have at their disposal to those from 100 years ago, except to identify how far ahead of their competition they were at the time.

 

[artradley]

Bo Jackson. Size, speed, strength, hand/eye coordination. 1 sport makes it hard to say greatest athlete. Heck the heptathletes and decathletes in theory are better athletes.

Not a believer that decathletes are great athletes. The best of them are not near the best in the world in any event. Bo at least was world-class level in both his sports. Or Carl Lewis, who was the best in the world in both his running event and in the long jump.

As for Phelps, his name is towards the top. But swimmers and gymnasts have far more opportunities to score medals than most athletes, so their medal total is not representative.

How about Vasely Aleksiav, who broke 80 world records in weightlifting? Or Edwin Moses, who won every race (107) in a ten year span? So many amazing lifetime accomplishments, with no way to fairly compare them.

What we can say is that he's probably the greatest swimmer of all time.

 

[Joes Place]

Not a believer that decathletes are great athletes. The best of them are not near the best in the world in any event. Bo at least was world-class level in both his sports. Or Carl Lewis, who was the best in the world in both his running event and in the long jump.

As for Phelps, his name is towards the top. But swimmers and gymnasts have far more opportunities to score medals than most athletes, so their medal total is not representative.

How about Vasely Aleksiav, who broke 80 world records in weightlifting? Or Edwin Moses, who won every race (107) in a ten year span? So many amazing lifetime accomplishments, with no way to fairly compare them.

What we can say is that he's probably the greatest swimmer of all time.

Edwin Moses was incredible. Are there any other Olympic caliber athletes who had that long of an 'undefeated' run? Pretty sure EM won all of his prelim heats - didn't lose a single race in that time, did he?

 

[Run&Blade]

I wish they had that old show superstars still on. Get somebody to put up a ten million dollar purse and do a bunch of events with sports biggest names and find out who is the best.

I also would like to see a 100 yard dash in full football pads and see who is the fastest NFL player. $1 million dollars to winner, have it during pro bowl.

 

[BrianNole09]

Neon Deion Sanders is the greatest athlete ever, of course.

Phelps is undoubtedly the best swimmer, though.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Thorpe...

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

I wish they had that old show superstars still on. Get somebody to put up a ten million dollar purse and do a bunch of events with sports biggest names and find out who is the best.

Me too, because having seen them on ESPN Classic, this guy won it nearly every year...

 

[artradley]

I wish they had that old show superstars still on. Get somebody to put up a ten million dollar purse and do a bunch of events with sports biggest names and find out who is the best.

I also would like to see a 100 yard dash in full football pads and see who is the fastest NFL player. $1 million dollars to winner, have it during pro bowl.

Those were fun. I think the guy who held the record for the fastest time in the obstacle course was OJ Simpson.

 

[coloradonoles]

I know Thorpe had amazing numbers but:

When Jackson was in hs, he weighed 218 lbs was a 6'9" high jumper, pole vaulted 12'6" with a pole made for a 185 lb person. State triple jump record. 9.7 in the 100yd dash. There the shot over 50' and discus over 150'
4.12 is still the nfl combine record.
Not just a member of an nfl or mlb team but an all pro in both.
The way I look at players from the early 1900's: not everyone was playing sports. Some of the greatest athletes may have been working on the farm or never seen or heard of. Therefore you could play multiple sports, less competition; especially with no blacks
That was not a problem in Bo's generation. Top talent gets id'ed.

A) He never ran a 4.12
B) He didn't even attend the combine in 1986
C) I hate Bo Jackson with every fiber in my body

"Numerous factors like an imperceptible decline or slope to a field, a careless measurement of length and mistakes in setting up timing equipment can ruin the validity of times of the 40-yard dash," said Carl Valle, a track coach, timing-technology expert and blogger who has written extensively on Jackson's 40 time and the general abuses of 40 times across various sports.

Valle used a well-attested data point from Jackson's track career—a 6.18-second 55-meter run at a 1983 NCAA meet—and determined it is incredibly unlikely that Jackson ran a 40-yard dash in 4.12 seconds. Splits for Usain Bolt's 65-meter sprints, for example, show that he ran 55 meters in 5.92 seconds and would therefore run 40 yards in approximately 4.10 seconds. Jackson, in other words, would have to be as fast as one of history's greatest sprinters for 40 yards, then slow down so much in his final few strides that he was no better than the typical very good NCAA-caliber sprinter after 55.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

....wouldn't that make them 'farmers' rather than 'athletes'?

Being 'in shape' and 'strong' doesn't make you a top athlete. Larry Bird never looked like much of a basketball player, and often looked clumsy/lumbering on the court; but he had a knack for 'court presence', passing and shooting.

I don't think you can really objectively compare today's athletes with all the training and facilities they have at their disposal to those from 100 years ago, except to identify how far ahead of their competition they were at the time.

agree with you on techniques and facilities but the point remains that a much higher % of athletes can and do compete today vs 100 years ago. That alone is huge when it comes to saying they played multiple sports etc.

 

[Joes Place]

agree with you on techniques and facilities but the point remains that a much higher % of athletes can and do compete today vs 100 years ago. That alone is huge when it comes to saying they played multiple sports etc.

I agree; it is tougher today (past few decades) to dominate your sport compared with 100 years ago.

Which certainly keeps people like Phelps and Moses in the same conversation as to how they've dominated their respective sports for so long.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

A) He never ran a 4.12
B) He didn't even attend the combine in 1986
C) I hate Bo Jackson with every fiber in my body

"Numerous factors like an imperceptible decline or slope to a field, a careless measurement of length and mistakes in setting up timing equipment can ruin the validity of times of the 40-yard dash," said Carl Valle, a track coach, timing-technology expert and blogger who has written extensively on Jackson's 40 time and the general abuses of 40 times across various sports.

Valle used a well-attested data point from Jackson's track career—a 6.18-second 55-meter run at a 1983 NCAA meet—and determined it is incredibly unlikely that Jackson ran a 40-yard dash in 4.12 seconds. Splits for Usain Bolt's 65-meter sprints, for example, show that he ran 55 meters in 5.92 seconds and would therefore run 40 yards in approximately 4.10 seconds. Jackson, in other words, would have to be as fast as one of history's greatest sprinters for 40 yards, then slow down so much in his final few strides that he was no better than the typical very good NCAA-caliber sprinter after 55.

Cherry pick from the end of the article? As the article said the combine was not really the combine after the super bowl in 1986. But he time was clocked during that week that we now consider the combine. Was it hand timed, yes. Your splitting hairs in a discussion about the worlds greatest athletes. He was 230 lbs running at an elite of the elite level.
Those extrapolations of Olympians as to what they would have ran the 40 in are worthless. Not everyone has the same stride length or acceleration. Maybe he ran uphill against the wind at 41 yards. You don't know l, neither do I. Even when you add .2 for hand timing he still is an athletic freak.
c. You hate bo Jackson so you lack subjectivity.

 

[Funky Bunch]

Dave Winfield was drafted in all 3 sports IIRC.

 

[LuteHawk]

Every world class athlete has a specialty. Phelps is
a great swimmer in his era. Babe Ruth was a great
baseball player in his era. Jim Brown was a great
football player in his era. Michael Jordan was a great
basketball player in his era.

Bottom Line: You cannot compare athletes from different
eras. Hank Aaron was a great baseball player in his era.
LeBron James is a great basketball player in his era. Joe
Louis was a great boxer in his era.

 

[The Tradition]

/thread

 

[hawk halen]

Nanu

 

[ferentzin04]

Edwin Moses was incredible. Are there any other Olympic caliber athletes who had that long of an 'undefeated' run? Pretty sure EM won all of his prelim heats - didn't lose a single race in that time, did he?

Alexander Karelin went undefeated in Greco-Roman wrestling for 13 years, including not giving up a single point over the last 6 years until losing to Rulon Gardner 1-0 in the finals of the 2000 Olympics.

 

[McLovin32]

Every world class athlete has a specialty. Phelps is
a great swimmer in his era.

Lol really? His era? He's the greatest swimmer in Olympic history.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

 

[YellowSnow51]

Mike Schmidt

 

[QChawks]