Desanto vs RBY

Is_there_vodka_in_heaven

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Mar 24, 2016
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As we all know, Desanto needs to figure out how to finish takedowns vs RBY and Fix. Here's his college history vs RBY:

Match 1: Win 12-8
Match 2: Win 7-2
Match 3: Losing 5-1 then injury default (no takedowns)
Match 4: Loss 3-2 (no takedowns)
Match 5: Loss 5-2 (no takedowns)
Match 6: Loss 3-2 (no takedowns)
Match 7: Loss 3-1 (no takedowns)

He hasn't taken RBY down since March 2019 despite wrestling him 5x since then and being in very deep on probably 10-20 shots during those matches.

RBY has gotten a lot better, and Desanto has gotten worse in the match-up. I'd like to see him hit a double, or single and change off to double and pick RBY up off the mat.

It almost looks like Desanto has a mental block against RBY and Fix. He'll be in very deep on shots and be in the advantageous position and then just stop wrestling.

What adjustments do you think Desanto needs to make to take RBY down?
 
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MVPFAN

HR Heisman
Mar 10, 2003
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Was his back close enough to the mat to count points if RBY was on top? If not then there shouldn't be counting for neutral danger imo.
 

Bones Malone

Scout Team
Jan 21, 2019
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Thought ADS improved slightly against RBY this weekend, though still unable to finish. ADS was at least getting to his feet with the leg & previously would get caught on his knees. In my mind, he needs to elevate the leg but unfortunately RBY will just dive and grab an ankle.

I think you're onto it, he's got to get RBY off the mat.
 
Jan 25, 2019
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I agree about there being a mental block in terms of Austin protecting his knees. Not sure what that is all about....I did however think the penetration angle on a couple of his shots were much improved last night. Easier said then done because RBY is so quick, but think he needs to keep moving his feet, keep hitting the corner and come up to his feet with the leg. RBY is so damn fast but ADS was almost there last night.
 

snotknockerhawk

HR All-State
Sep 22, 2007
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Thought ADS improved slightly against RBY this weekend, though still unable to finish. ADS was at least getting to his feet with the leg & previously would get caught on his knees. In my mind, he needs to elevate the leg but unfortunately RBY will just dive and grab an ankle.

I think you're onto it, he's got to get RBY off the mat.
I think the dive and ankle grab should be a stall call or done away with all together....
 

js8793

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Dec 4, 2018
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match 2 was closer than the score. he got 2 and 2 at the end with a merkel when rby went desperation mode.

he has not finished a leg attack since rby started putting his arm behind his back late in match 1 to take away the dump. that tells you all you need to know.
 

Grip220

HR Heisman
Mar 23, 2014
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ADS gets to the right leg, he needs to pop up with it quick just as he did then drop a knee and sprawl directly after preventing the dive through.
This is one motion and anticipated, RBY is extremely fast so it has to be before he commits to the dive.

I also agree and have stated to utilize more of a double, ADS is very strong and has shown abilities to shoot doubles with a lift finish. I’m sure he has been working more on these things and We are talking about a national champ so not so simple.
 

natchrlman

HR All-American
Jul 10, 2003
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Same with Fix..... he’s capable of beating either and I hope like hell he gets it done at nationals.... as frustrating as it is to watch as fans..... imagine how frustrating it must be for him
 

HawkFan1986

HR MVP
Mar 26, 2019
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Iowa
He should shoot a single to his preferred side. He keeps doing the single leg attempts to the right leg, well, every time he scores off a dump he does it to the left leg. He’s clearly more comfortable to that side. So shoot, and drive through or elevate.

He also needs to utilize his snaps a bit more. He can move people around pretty good, maybe that helps him crate the angle he needs.

IDK if he’ll ever figure it out, but not many wrestle as hard as he does for 7 minutes. Every one of ADS opponents attempt to get under his skin. It must be frustrating to deal with.
 

IAChief32

HR Heisman
Apr 21, 2017
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Rby is a spider who has set his web. He knows exactly what AD is going to do and uses his defense to win every time. Not sure why AD won’t change his strategy and set his own web.

In his matches up to the finals, ADS wrestled fairly conservative to his character. I thought this was setting a tone for his matchup with RBY. Be careful, pick your spots , don’t push in so much. It was basically a repeat of the others.

I am reminded of some of the adjustments Marinelli made on Wick or Lugo made on Sasso. One can also look at Gomez vs Sasso which was an outstanding match for Gomez. He gave a roadmap to beat Sasso. Shoot in, keep Sasso’s leverage leg elevated so he is on his butt can’t sit the corner or cinch guys in for a cradle.
 

Grip220

HR Heisman
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He should shoot a single to his preferred side. He keeps doing the single leg attempts to the right leg, well, every time he scores off a dump he does it to the left leg. He’s clearly more comfortable to that side. So shoot, and drive through or elevate.

He also needs to utilize his snaps a bit more. He can move people around pretty good, maybe that helps him crate the angle he needs.

IDK if he’ll ever figure it out, but not many wrestle as hard as he does for 7 minutes. Every one of ADS opponents attempt to get under his skin. It must be frustrating to deal with.
This is a good point also, but his strength is with his left arm to the leg and that’s why his outside single is to the right leg and his high crotch to the left leg.
 
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23 so far

HR Heisman
Mar 24, 2016
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In his matches up to the finals, ADS wrestled fairly conservative to his character. I thought this was setting a tone for his matchup with RBY. Be careful, pick your spots , don’t push in so much. It was basically a repeat of the others.

I am reminded of some of the adjustments Marinelli made on Wick or Lugo made on Sasso. One can also look at Gomez vs Sasso which was an outstanding match for Gomez. He gave a roadmap to beat Sasso. Shoot in, keep Sasso’s leverage leg elevated so he is on his butt can’t sit the corner or cinch guys in for a cradle.
In regards to DeSanto, a good double leg takes away scrambles for anybody. Why not try going thru him? Difficult to do, but that would be one effective method IMO.
 

T8KUDWN

HR All-State
Jun 21, 2014
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The neutral danger count should not happen in a situation where the offensive wrestler taking the shot has their back exposed. The rule was put in place because of defensive wrestlers diving and grabbing ankles, lots of times lying with their back exposed holding on for a stalemate. Austin is in on a shot, looking for a way to finish and is crotched lifted by RBY exposing his back. The offensive wrestler should never be penalized in this situation. Just asinine the rule is written or interpreted that the guy in on the shot can be put in the neutral danger count. Makes no sense to me. If it was freestyle the defensive wrestler gets points for back exposure in this situation, but this isn't freestyle because if it was RBY would have been disqualified on passivity calls.
 

js8793

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The neutral danger count should not happen in a situation where the offensive wrestler taking the shot has their back exposed. The rule was put in place because of defensive wrestlers diving and grabbing ankles, lots of times lying with their back exposed holding on for a stalemate. Austin is in on a shot, looking for a way to finish and is crotched lifted by RBY exposing his back. The offensive wrestler should never be penalized in this situation. Just asinine the rule is written or interpreted that the guy in on the shot can be put in the neutral danger count. Makes no sense to me. If it was freestyle the defensive wrestler gets points for back exposure in this situation, but this isn't freestyle because if it was RBY would have been disqualified on passivity calls.
why should you ever be rewarded for being held on your back for 3 seconds? putting guys on their back is the point of the sport. desanto got put on his back. that's on him. he knows the rules.
 

Bones Malone

Scout Team
Jan 21, 2019
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The official said the 2 pts were awarded to RBY for "takedown". RBY never hooked the ankle or had control, so I was assuming he intended to say back points or exposure??

The way the rule is written, I could see the official awarding exposure points but why did he say "takedown".
 

poorwrestler

Scout Team
Feb 17, 2020
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Do we anticipate seeding at NCAA’s to be

1 RBY
2 Fix
3 Desanto ??

or could Mcgee from ASU slot in ahead of him? Which is more favorable for Desanto?
 

T8KUDWN

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why should you ever be rewarded for being held on your back for 3 seconds? putting guys on their back is the point of the sport. desanto got put on his back. that's on him. he knows the rules.
In folkstyle you have to have control to be awarded back points. Like score a takedown, a reversal or start in the top position. The rule punishing the offensive wrestler makes no sense to me. Now we have a rule that was created because of passive wrestlers who don't want to take a shot, down block or sprawl, just dive to the ankles and hold on. It should not be used to punish an offensive minded guy. What did you want Austin to do in that situation, let go of the leg he had shot on??
 

johnyt9

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Jun 24, 2020
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why should you ever be rewarded for being held on your back for 3 seconds? putting guys on their back is the point of the sport. desanto got put on his back. that's on him. he knows the rules.
The official said the 2 pts were awarded to RBY for "takedown". RBY never hooked the ankle or had control, so I was assuming he intended to say back points or exposure??

The way the rule is written, I could see the official awarding exposure points but why did he say "takedown".
Put on his back? His back was exposed sure, but his back was two feet in the air. Saying he was put on his back paints a very different picture from what actually happened.

i believe they call it a Neutral Danger Takedown - tomato/tomato
 

js8793

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In folkstyle you have to have control to be awarded back points. Like score a takedown, a reversal or start in the top position. The rule punishing the offensive wrestler makes no sense to me. Now we have a rule that was created because of passive wrestlers who don't want to take a shot, down block or sprawl, just dive to the ankles and hold on. It should not be used to punish an offensive minded guy. What did you want Austin to do in that situation, let go of the leg he had shot on??
Put on his back? His back was exposed sure, but his back was two feet in the air. Saying he was put on his back paints a very different picture from what actually happened.

i believe they call it a Neutral Danger Takedown - tomato/tomato

holding someone on their back against their will for 3 seconds is control. and he was in a bridge. should you not get back points if your opponent bridges?

and what should austin have done? not let rby crotch lift him into the position in the first place. once he did, he did his best to get off his back, but not in time. that's like saying "what was he supposed to do? sprawl? that's not fair." when an opponents hits a double leg.

9/10 times this rule punishes the defensive wrestler and you want it changed because of the exception? should we also stop counting go behinds as takedowns because they're defensive?

and lastly, there was 1 wrestler just trying to hold on for a stalemate in that situation: austin desanto. rby lifted him in the air and held him on his back for 3 seconds against his will. he was the one trying to score and did.
 

GoHawks1996

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Feb 17, 2021
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I'm cool with the exposure call, it's made things a lot more interesting during the crazy scrambles. If you're able to hold one of these guys on their back for the roughly 4-5 seconds it takes the ref to do the 3 count, you earned your 2 points (unless they just didn't hear the ref like kemerer a couple years back).

I would be open to them treating it like exposure points instead of a takedown when neither wrestler gets a truly controlling position like in this match.

I would also be open to the argument that desanto got off his back for a couple split seconds during the middle of the ref counting.

One thing is for sure, it was a damn shitty way to lose.
 

sstark46

HR MVP
Mar 20, 2013
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Just watched it again. He did say "danger" before/as he counted backs but after the review he came back and official said "two green, takedown". There was not control for a TD.
The neutral danger takedown does not require control, just that one of the wrestlers is beyond 90 degree exposure for 3 seconds.

That's why the ref clearly calls "danger" and begins his 3 count

It was the right call for a takedown
 

Bones Malone

Scout Team
Jan 21, 2019
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So, because RBY held him for the 3 count, he was awarded 2 points for a takedown? I thought he'd say "2 points for exposure" or "back points but the official comes back and says "two green, takedown". Guessing he thought one and said the other...
 
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js8793

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So, because RBY held him for the 3 count, he was awarded 2 points for a takedown? I thought he'd say "2 points for exposure" or "back points but the official comes back and says "two green, takedown". Guessing he thought one and said the other...
you need to read up on the rules. look up the neutral danger zone. if a wrestler is held on his back for 3 seconds, that is considered control and a takedown.
 

Is_there_vodka_in_heaven

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Mar 24, 2016
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So, because RBY held him for the 3 count, he was awarded 2 points for a takedown? I thought he'd say "2 points for exposure" or "back points but the official comes back and says "two green, takedown". Guessing he thought one and said the other...

It's a takedown. That's why RBY started on top after they restarted rather than them starting neutral. It's a new rule that was added a few years ago and I think it's generally a decent rule. Jesse Delgado might not have won a single championship if the rule was in place back then.
 
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sstark46

HR MVP
Mar 20, 2013
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So, because RBY held him for the 3 count, he was awarded 2 points for a takedown? I thought he'd say "2 points for exposure" or "back points but the official comes back and says "two green, takedown". Guessing he thought one and said the other...
It's a takedown, not near fall or exposure. The ref called it correctly. There is no control required for the neutral danger takedown

Edit to say there is no "traditional" control required here. This criteria does define this as a takedown and therefore control.
 

sstark46

HR MVP
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What was the rule before?
Guys could hang around with their backs facing the mat all day long as long as other criteria for takedown was not reached. Dean Heil was a 2x National Champion by exploiting this as much as he could (he had good defense from leg passes but oftentimes would keep his back to the mat while waiting for a stalemate). As soon as they enacted this rule change, he only made it to the R12 and lost many more regular season matches
 

Gobblin

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Oct 29, 2011
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Guys could hang around with their backs facing the mat all day long as long as other criteria for takedown was not reached. Dean Heil was a 2x National Champion by exploiting this as much as he could (he had good defense from leg passes but oftentimes would keep his back to the mat while waiting for a stalemate). As soon as they enacted this rule change, he only made it to the R12 and lost many more regular season matches
Jesse Delgado would’ve never beaten a Hawkeye if this rule were in place when he wrestled.
 

Iowabandwagon

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Jan 21, 2019
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In regards to DeSanto, a good double leg takes away scrambles for anybody. Why not try going thru him? Difficult to do, but that would be one effective method IMO.
Exactly this. He almost collected that second ankle at one point. My coach used to say take away both legs of someone more athletic than you (basic, but true). He has to collect both. Otherwise, stalemate after stalemate or RBY will find the corner or exposure or another way to score on Austin because he’s a better athlete. Rby must be deceivingly heavy with those hips and or desanto really is worried about that cradle because he’s just stuck underneath. Wouldn’t mind Austin going for broke upper body and shooting doubles all match long the next time. Anything except getting a leg and waiting there. Can’t watch that again. They’re not going to stall rby out and most likely, rby will eventually score off of it.
 

Gobblin

HR Heisman
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Exactly this. He almost collected that second ankle at one point. My coach used to say take away both legs of someone more athletic than you (basic, but true). He has to collect both. Otherwise, stalemate after stalemate or RBY will find the corner or exposure or another way to score on Austin because he’s a better athlete. Rby must be deceivingly heavy with those hips and or desanto really is worried about that cradle because he’s just stuck underneath. Wouldn’t mind Austin going for broke upper body and shooting doubles all match long the next time. Anything except getting a leg and waiting there. Can’t watch that again. They’re not going to stall rby out and most likely, rby will eventually score off of it.
I’ve been saying this for awhile now. RBY has insane hips ala Kem. When he straitens his back and hips in when you’re under him, you ain’t going anywhere else.
 
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Iowabandwagon

HR All-State
Jan 21, 2019
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I’ve been saying this for awhile now. RBY has insane hips ala Kem. When he straitens his back and hips in when your under him, you ain’t going anywhere else.
Austin was noticeably bigger than rby. I know it’s not the size of the dog in the fight plus rby is very good. He’s figured something out. He glided out of singles against ragusin reminded me of Vincenzo Joseph in that match. Those hips are something. Austin and co need to change it up. He controls the whole match until rby does just enough. Frustrating. I think his best chance is to go for broke or ride the piss out of him like seabass did and gain a point then stall, unfortunately.