ADVERTISEMENT

DO vs MD

Carolina Hawk

HR Legend
Sep 27, 2001
14,302
7,862
113
Duck, North Carolina
any major differences to know about? Any medical pros on here who can give me a breakdown? I am in need of a new Dr and just curious if I should consider a DO as well as an MD.
 
Not for you. A DO gets a medical education and then gets into whatever residency and specialty they get into. If they're seeing you it's because they have a license.
 
Short answer is the differences are changing:

Old school thinking is they are lesser candidates because they didn't perform as well as their MD counter parts. Most DOs were people who couldn't get into an MD school so they applied to DO school. My wife and I used to debate was it better to take a DO or an MD from a Caribbean school for residency. The thought was DO training was more wholistic and they did some join manipulation. They were the more wellness, nutrition, whole body doctors. There are also DO residency which a DO can apply to but an MD can't. For same reason as DO schools, they are less desirable. However, they have started to change their standards and now been raised and have the same criteria as MD residency. DOs can complete to an MD residency (allopathic).

New school thinking is we need a lot more doctors to service the aging population and all the fat people. The training standards have been raised to be similar to each other. I think DOs still take one osteopathic medicine class. However, the number of DO schools is exploding at a rate much higher than allopathic schools because many of them are pay to play. They charge really high tuition and are for profit so of course they accept a lot of students. Anytime you have a bigger pool of people you're going to have people with lower college grades and test scores. This is a new phenomenon in the last 10 years or so. The best DOs will often go allopathic residencies. The most important thing is the last place you been. No one gives a crap if you went to Harvard in College. If you were at a good residency, that's all that matters. Same for medical school.

My opinion- Many DOs do primary care and are well suited for that. Many DOs that got into allopathic surgical residencies are at the top of their class and out perform many MD counterparts. Their competition is so hard to get into an allopathic surgical residency, they had to overcome a lot of hurdles. A good DO is certainly better than a bad MD. Test scores and grades aren't everything. My roommate became a podiatrist because he couldn't get into med school. The reason was he partied freshman year and got crap grades. Sophmore-Senior year we had equivalent grades and test scores. He made a mistake and paid for it. Doesn't mean he wasn't smart enough to do the MD coursework or lacked ability. There will be a long stigma against DOs for a while. In past it was probably warranted, but less so today. Many of the docs I work with are DOs and I haven't noticed any drop in the quality of care they deliver. I would easily have them take care of me or my family.

My advice- Find a person you like that understands your medical problems. Get referrals from friends and family. Their degree is a lot less important than their competency.
 
I’d see a DO as my PCP, but would prefer to see an MD for specialty. In Florida MDs and DOs are licensed by different boards, but the qualifications for licensure and standard of care are largely the same.
 
My advice:

image
 
Some of the smartest docs I know are DO’s.

I agree with the play to play part. Some who do not have the best grades or boards are able to get into a DO school (osteopathic) that may have had trouble getting into an MD (allopathic) one. But once they get in I really dont think there is a difference other than the OMT trading they get. And the cost they paid. Most state schools are MD.

Again as said, it’s all about the residency quality and the drive of the individual to be the best. If you aren’t a driven person and are ok with average, or have other interests, then the school type is no matter.
 
It's funny because I don't think most people know how good (or bad) their Dr really is.

I have seen Drs who are super nice but don't know Jack, there are dos who are medical directors, and there are nurse practitioners who are better than their doctor counterparts.

Don't worry about the degree, if they are practicing in a hospital then that means they have the credentials to do so(unless they are fraudulent-which is unlikely).

You are best finding someone who will take the time to listen to you. This is way more important than any credentials.

It is very unlikely that you have an extremely rare condition that only a highly trained and brilliant Dr can diagnose. And if you do have this rare condition, you want someone who will listen to your issues and refer you to a specialist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 and Out on D
It's funny because I don't think most people know how good (or bad) their Dr really is.

I have seen Drs who are super nice but don't know Jack, there are dos who are medical directors, and there are nurse practitioners who are better than their doctor counterparts.

Don't worry about the degree, if they are practicing in a hospital then that means they have the credentials to do so(unless they are fraudulent-which is unlikely).

You are best finding someone who will take the time to listen to you. This is way more important than any credentials.

It is very unlikely that you have an extremely rare condition that only a highly trained and brilliant Dr can diagnose. And if you do have this rare condition, you want someone who will listen to your issues and refer you to a specialist.

Have a NP as my PCP provider. She is extremely thorough. Almost to annoying levels. Used to have a MD as my PCP. I feel she does a better job then him.
 
Short answer is the differences are changing:

Old school thinking is they are lesser candidates because they didn't perform as well as their MD counter parts. Most DOs were people who couldn't get into an MD school so they applied to DO school. My wife and I used to debate was it better to take a DO or an MD from a Caribbean school for residency. The thought was DO training was more wholistic and they did some join manipulation. They were the more wellness, nutrition, whole body doctors. There are also DO residency which a DO can apply to but an MD can't. For same reason as DO schools, they are less desirable. However, they have started to change their standards and now been raised and have the same criteria as MD residency. DOs can complete to an MD residency (allopathic).

New school thinking is we need a lot more doctors to service the aging population and all the fat people. The training standards have been raised to be similar to each other. I think DOs still take one osteopathic medicine class. However, the number of DO schools is exploding at a rate much higher than allopathic schools because many of them are pay to play. They charge really high tuition and are for profit so of course they accept a lot of students. Anytime you have a bigger pool of people you're going to have people with lower college grades and test scores. This is a new phenomenon in the last 10 years or so. The best DOs will often go allopathic residencies. The most important thing is the last place you been. No one gives a crap if you went to Harvard in College. If you were at a good residency, that's all that matters. Same for medical school.

My opinion- Many DOs do primary care and are well suited for that. Many DOs that got into allopathic surgical residencies are at the top of their class and out perform many MD counterparts. Their competition is so hard to get into an allopathic surgical residency, they had to overcome a lot of hurdles. A good DO is certainly better than a bad MD. Test scores and grades aren't everything. My roommate became a podiatrist because he couldn't get into med school. The reason was he partied freshman year and got crap grades. Sophmore-Senior year we had equivalent grades and test scores. He made a mistake and paid for it. Doesn't mean he wasn't smart enough to do the MD coursework or lacked ability. There will be a long stigma against DOs for a while. In past it was probably warranted, but less so today. Many of the docs I work with are DOs and I haven't noticed any drop in the quality of care they deliver. I would easily have them take care of me or my family.

My advice- Find a person you like that understands your medical problems. Get referrals from friends and family. Their degree is a lot less important than their competency.

Lot of truth in here. I think for primary care/hospitalist, there really isn't much difference. DOs still have to take the osteopathic manipulative class, but the rest is essentially the same. Most of your education comes during rotations in 3rd/4th year and you are trained by MD/DOs alike.

I don't think there is much of a difference in specialists either but it is harder to get into an allopathic specialty residency as a DO. Some of that is still based on the old school thinking. I think it will be better when everything is fully merged and there is no longer DO only residencies.

There is a lot of concern with any new school, but all of the recent new ones are DO. It would certainly give me pause when interviewing someone from a brand new school.

I agree that quality of training is the most important thing. After that is finding someone you like and can work with over time.

Disclaimer-DO who went to established and respected school and went to respected allopathic (MD) residency. I did get into MD schools, just liked where I went the best after interviews.
 
Lot of truth in here. I think for primary care/hospitalist, there really isn't much difference. DOs still have to take the osteopathic manipulative class, but the rest is essentially the same. Most of your education comes during rotations in 3rd/4th year and you are trained by MD/DOs alike.

I don't think there is much of a difference in specialists either but it is harder to get into an allopathic specialty residency as a DO. Some of that is still based on the old school thinking. I think it will be better when everything is fully merged and there is no longer DO only residencies.

There is a lot of concern with any new school, but all of the recent new ones are DO. It would certainly give me pause when interviewing someone from a brand new school.

I agree that quality of training is the most important thing. After that is finding someone you like and can work with over time.

Disclaimer-DO who went to established and respected school and went to respected allopathic (MD) residency. I did get into MD schools, just liked where I went the best after interviews.
This is splitting hairs. The things you mentioned are things a director considers when hiring someone. These are not things the average patient needs to worry about.

As a patient, if you don't have any major medical issues, Realistically it probably doesn't matter who you go to. If you have a complicated history then go to someone with some experience and someone who will spend the time listening to what's going on.

Providers now days are mostly specialized. This means as long as you are not brand new out of residency, you are probably at least competent. Of course some are better than others, but this may change depending on the patient.

Very few people can actually tell the difference between a Dr, do, or nurse practitioner. It is more of a personality fit rather than your training. A good provider knows what they don't know and will find an answer. I would rather go to someone who knows they don't know everything rather than someone who thinks they know everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hawkcub
If you can find a DO who has “manipulation training” (today, most have not), your money up! It is amazing what a bend/pop/aaahhhh! Can do for one’s body!
I have had both as “primary docs”....and the best primary doc I ever had was a DO. My current primary doc is an MD, who is very very good, though.
 
This is splitting hairs. The things you mentioned are things a director considers when hiring someone. These are not things the average patient needs to worry about.

As a patient, if you don't have any major medical issues, Realistically it probably doesn't matter who you go to. If you have a complicated history then go to someone with some experience and someone who will spend the time listening to what's going on.

Providers now days are mostly specialized. This means as long as you are not brand new out of residency, you are probably at least competent. Of course some are better than others, but this may change depending on the patient.

Very few people can actually tell the difference between a Dr, do, or nurse practitioner. It is more of a personality fit rather than your training. A good provider knows what they don't know and will find an answer. I would rather go to someone who knows they don't know everything rather than someone who thinks they know everything.

Huge differences between nurse practioners and physicians. Many take online classes to get their NP degree.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawk_82 and JWolf74
This is splitting hairs. The things you mentioned are things a director considers when hiring someone. These are not things the average patient needs to worry about.

As a patient, if you don't have any major medical issues, Realistically it probably doesn't matter who you go to. If you have a complicated history then go to someone with some experience and someone who will spend the time listening to what's going on.

Providers now days are mostly specialized. This means as long as you are not brand new out of residency, you are probably at least competent. Of course some are better than others, but this may change depending on the patient.

Very few people can actually tell the difference between a Dr, do, or nurse practitioner. It is more of a personality fit rather than your training. A good provider knows what they don't know and will find an answer. I would rather go to someone who knows they don't know everything rather than someone who thinks they know everything.

I think we're all essentially saying the same thing.

But to simply for OP-
MD/DO are essentially the same anymore. Both do undergrad, 4 years of med school, a 3-7 year residency at the very least. Some do fellowships after to further specialize. NPs, while valuable and necessary members of the team, do not have near the level of training as their physician counterparts.

Your last paragraph is spot on. My favorite attending's favorite line was "know what you know, know what you don't, and never confuse the two".
 
Short answer is the differences are changing:

Old school thinking is they are lesser candidates because they didn't perform as well as their MD counter parts. Most DOs were people who couldn't get into an MD school so they applied to DO school. My wife and I used to debate was it better to take a DO or an MD from a Caribbean school for residency. The thought was DO training was more wholistic and they did some join manipulation. They were the more wellness, nutrition, whole body doctors. There are also DO residency which a DO can apply to but an MD can't. For same reason as DO schools, they are less desirable. However, they have started to change their standards and now been raised and have the same criteria as MD residency. DOs can complete to an MD residency (allopathic).

New school thinking is we need a lot more doctors to service the aging population and all the fat people. The training standards have been raised to be similar to each other. I think DOs still take one osteopathic medicine class. However, the number of DO schools is exploding at a rate much higher than allopathic schools because many of them are pay to play. They charge really high tuition and are for profit so of course they accept a lot of students. Anytime you have a bigger pool of people you're going to have people with lower college grades and test scores. This is a new phenomenon in the last 10 years or so. The best DOs will often go allopathic residencies. The most important thing is the last place you been. No one gives a crap if you went to Harvard in College. If you were at a good residency, that's all that matters. Same for medical school.

My opinion- Many DOs do primary care and are well suited for that. Many DOs that got into allopathic surgical residencies are at the top of their class and out perform many MD counterparts. Their competition is so hard to get into an allopathic surgical residency, they had to overcome a lot of hurdles. A good DO is certainly better than a bad MD. Test scores and grades aren't everything. My roommate became a podiatrist because he couldn't get into med school. The reason was he partied freshman year and got crap grades. Sophmore-Senior year we had equivalent grades and test scores. He made a mistake and paid for it. Doesn't mean he wasn't smart enough to do the MD coursework or lacked ability. There will be a long stigma against DOs for a while. In past it was probably warranted, but less so today. Many of the docs I work with are DOs and I haven't noticed any drop in the quality of care they deliver. I would easily have them take care of me or my family.

My advice- Find a person you like that understands your medical problems. Get referrals from friends and family. Their degree is a lot less important than their competency.
Awesome reply. Very informative. With a projected shortage of MD's moving forward, I'm glad the DO's can help bridge the gap.
 
I am not going to argue something that the DRs in the room know more about. But as a patient, I have always found NP to have more concern and listening skills than any DO or MD. I get the pressure on MD and DO to see as many patients as possible, but nurses and NP spend more time with the patient in IMHO.
 
The orthopedic surgeon who did my knee replacement last month is a DO. He is one of the top in his field in this area. I honestly never thought about the letters behind his name.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawk_82

I have never really noticed any difference in quality of care between MD's and DO's. Quite frankly they could drop the distinction all together and it probably wouldn't matter much.

There used to be differences but they got whittled away to the point where they don't matter anymore and the distinction only exists because no one has ever really made it go away.

It's not as a patient something I would ever really think about.
 
Huge differences between nurse practioners and physicians. Many take online classes to get their NP degree.
I did not mean to say there is no difference at all between md/do and a nurse practitioner. Obviously MD/do have had significantly more training/education. I meant no disrespect to you.

Having said that, the patient does not always benefit by seeing the most highly trained person. Certain specialties may be the exception where you would want to go to the most highly trained person.

But there can be downfalls to going to a highly trained Dr. Sometimes Drs have fellows or residents working with them(nothing wrong with that, but not everyone understands this). Sometimes big wig Drs travel more doing conferences etc so scheduling can be challenging. Sometimes Drs have nurse practitioners working with them so you might only see the Dr 1 out of 3 appointments anyway. Some procedures/patients just don't need the skill level of a Dr. Even a new grad can run a strep test and order an antibiotic.

I just think the more important thing is finding someone who will listen to you and treat you accordingly rather than worry about credentials.
 
Thanks for the info all. Scheduled with a DO in my area. My old Dr turned his practice into a concierge (pay monthly ) and I am healthy and relatively young and just need a PCP that I can go to on the rare occasion I need something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawk_82

I have never really noticed any difference in quality of care between MD's and DO's. Quite frankly they could drop the distinction all together and it probably wouldn't matter much.

There used to be differences but they got whittled away to the point where they don't matter anymore and the distinction only exists because no one has ever really made it go away.

It's not as a patient something I would ever really think about.
Honestly, if they came out and said I could pay someone a grand and my letters would change to MD, I would. It would help eliminate the confusion. I, along with 95+%, of the DOs don't do the manipulative medicine anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawk_82
I did not mean to say there is no difference at all between md/do and a nurse practitioner. Obviously MD/do have had significantly more training/education. I meant no disrespect to you.

Having said that, the patient does not always benefit by seeing the most highly trained person. Certain specialties may be the exception where you would want to go to the most highly trained person.

But there can be downfalls to going to a highly trained Dr. Sometimes Drs have fellows or residents working with them(nothing wrong with that, but not everyone understands this). Sometimes big wig Drs travel more doing conferences etc so scheduling can be challenging. Sometimes Drs have nurse practitioners working with them so you might only see the Dr 1 out of 3 appointments anyway. Some procedures/patients just don't need the skill level of a Dr. Even a new grad can run a strep test and order an antibiotic.

I just think the more important thing is finding someone who will listen to you and treat you accordingly rather than worry about credentials.

I see a doctor but you are right about this. The vast majority of your issues don't require someone with 4 years of med school and 3+ years of residency to resolve. There is quite a bit of stuff that you could even diagnose yourself, you just have to go to the doctor to get the proper prescription.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawk_82
ADVERTISEMENT