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Do you care about the abortion issue?

LuciousBDragon said:
I think it should remain a hot issue, maybe not the top issue, but should always be in the top five. There is a lot we still do not fully understand about the full lifecycle of abortion. By that I mean we still have a lot of work to do to quantify the indirect consequences of abortion. The NIH has reported that abortion is associated with higher rates of mental-illness. More research needs to be done here. There are indirect costs of abortion that society bares that we still do not fully understand. No woman walks out of an abortion clinic with a big smile on her face. The shame they bare and how to treat that is still an issue medicine is learning about. What about women who are pressured into an abortion from their partner and/or partner’s family? That is not fully quantified either.

Additionally, if you look at abortion as a process, it is a lagging indicator and not a leading indicator. If you really want to solve a problem, you should look at the leading indicators. Unwanted pregnancy is a result of poor family planning practices in society. More Education in optimal family planning is needed. Further, more funding and less red-tape needs to occur in state & federal adoption laws. Often, it can be easier to adopt a foreign child than it is in to get one in this country. If mother’s facing unwanted pregnancy understood that a loving, caring family is readily available they will be more likely to carry to term knowing they have the ability to make a positive impact in someone else’s life.

Lastly, as a Christian, this is where I believe the church can step up more. If every congregation in America had one family adopt or foster one child, we could end this debate overnight. Think about that. Then think about that again & again. My church does wrap-around ministry so support families who want to adopt and/or foster. More of that is needed. We can solve this problem without a single selfish asshole in Washington. The power, as always, is in the people’s hands.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207970/
Click to expand...
I agree to the point where contraception should be made available to any and all who seek it.... at no cost or at least a very minimal charge. America’s refusal to understand and admit that human beings love sex starting somewhere their teens is a folly of Americana.
One unwanted baby is one too many. The costs to society are way too expensive to bear.
 
Wendy79 said:
Women would still have to undergo unwanted medical procedures if forced to remain pregnant. And their safety and lives would be at risk.

Also, there are a LOT of kids in foster care as it is, many of whom are available for adoption, so there's nothing stopping churches or anyone else from adopting.
Click to expand...


I had to look. without cheating how many do you think there are? Unless you just know. I was a bit surprised.

And it seems to be getting worse.
www.nacac.org

Foster Care Numbers Up for Fifth Straight Year - The North American Council on Adoptable Children

From Adoptalk 2018, Issue 4; Adoptalk is a benefit of NACAC membership. The number of children and teens in US foster care and the number of youth adopted from foster care rose in 2017, according to the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (AFCARS). Every fiscal year, AFCARS...
www.nacac.org www.nacac.org
 
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William Bonney said:
Any nation that condones the murder of innocent babies deserves it's fate. God will not be mocked.
Click to expand...

Right...
AP_20154066105580.jpg
 
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My wife had four blood transfusions from a very difficult cesarean after a failed induction. The whole process took 48 hours. She lost consciousness a number of times.

Republicans don’t even want to wear masks and consider safer-at-home orders worse than the Japanese Internment.
 
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Seeing as how women are too dumb to prevent pregnancy then abortion might as well be legal. Don't need any more unwanted children to fall into the hands of the pedos.
 
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Pro abortion is NOT pro choice. The woman made the choice when she spread her legs. Not wanting to deal with the results of that choice is not enough justification to end a human life.
 
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Joes Place said:
Well.......you see, hawkbirch and Wendy.......this is all about White Men.

White Men should be able to tell you that you cannot get an abortion, because it's against God or unethical or whatever.

But, when White Men knock up a prostitute, they should be able to get that prostitute an abortion to cover up their impropriety, without question.

Or, if they work in the WH and they knock up their mistress, they have to be able to hand her, unknowingly, a Plan B smoothie, to abort the fetus and take care of the problem. Can't have any White Men in power inconvenienced by child support or having their wife find out about this shit, y'know.

Also, women really shouldn't even be voting in this country, because that's just screwing things up for White Men, too. In fact, women shouldn't even be on the internet, because their place is in the kitchen, cooking and cleaning.

.......and.......what are you doing on here, anyway? As a White Man, I think you need to get your ass back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich!!!!:mad:
Click to expand...

What do you want on it?
 
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funksouljon said:
I had to look. without cheating how many do you think there are? Unless you just know. I was a bit surprised.

And it seems to be getting worse.
www.nacac.org

Foster Care Numbers Up for Fifth Straight Year - The North American Council on Adoptable Children

From Adoptalk 2018, Issue 4; Adoptalk is a benefit of NACAC membership. The number of children and teens in US foster care and the number of youth adopted from foster care rose in 2017, according to the Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (AFCARS). Every fiscal year, AFCARS...
www.nacac.org www.nacac.org
Click to expand...

A friend and her husband adopted 3 from foster care after fostering about a dozen children. They're obviously advocates of fostering/adoption. I didn't know specific numbers, but I just know there are a lot out there. Many older (10+ years) just end up aging out of the system and once they hit 18/19, that's it. They're forced out into the world with little/no support system.

Social workers and case workers are also over worked and under paid. Foster families aren't all sunshine and happiness (remember that one girl who died in foster care a few years ago?). There's a serious lack of *good* foster families. The problem, again, is that most of the kids aren't cute little babies and many have something - behavioral issues, medical issues, something. Many don't, though. They just want a family and a home.
 
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I’m pro choice. I have issues with our government funding abortions or the clinics providing them or offering guidance to women seeking options. I also don’t think we will see a repeal of Roe v Wade in my lifetime, even if the court ends up 6-3. The emphasis that the Republicans place on abortion is one of the many reasons I’m and Independent.
 
I am probably the only person in America who literally has no opinion one way or the other.
 
Wendy79 said:
A friend and her husband adopted 3 from foster care after fostering about a dozen children. They're obviously advocates of fostering/adoption. I didn't know specific numbers, but I just know there are a lot out there. Many older (10+ years) just end up aging out of the system and once they hit 18/19, that's it. They're forced out into the world with little/no support system.

Social workers and case workers are also over worked and under paid. Foster families aren't all sunshine and happiness (remember that one girl who died in foster care a few years ago?). There's a serious lack of *good* foster families. The problem, again, is that most of the kids aren't cute little babies and many have something - behavioral issues, medical issues, something. Many don't, though. They just want a family and a home.
Click to expand...

I don’t know the numbers either, but here in mysmall world in SW Iowa, we have two family friends who have Fostered and adopted recently. One family has now adopted 3 girls, the other 2 boys. All the kids in their teens. All court ordered and removed from their mother or parents for drug use. These families have tried to talk us into fostering and adopting as well. I just don’t think it’s right for us. But they come to us wit heartbreaking stories about how many kids there are in the Iowa system. Wereare aware of one mother who has had all five of her kid removed.
 
I’m sure the foster system can handle an influx of almost 800,000 unwanted forced births per year. The poor families who couldn’t afford birth control will be able support even more children. The fatherless homes, MAGAts constantly complain about, will be well addressed by forcing births and children upon unwed mothers and families in poverty. What could go wrong?
 
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Tenacious E said:
This irks me. I am liberal on many fronts but am pro life. Minding one’s own business with regard to the unborn, to me, is akin to minding one’s own business with an abused child. It is one of the more interesting things to me how fiercely the left advocates for children or not, depending on what side of the womb the kid is. With that said, the issue is not as important to me as getting trump the hell out of office.
Click to expand...

This, pro-life but liberal on many other issues. Trump needs to go. Also I think anyone who thinks he is a principled pro-lifer or that he has any principles at all are crazy.
 
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Formerly Rockymtnole said:
Personally, I don’t care one bit and it ticks me off that this issue causes such division in our country. We have so many more important issues facing us, and this seems to prevent progress on fixing real problems.

Anyone else?
Click to expand...
Yes I care we murder millions of innocent babies
 
LuciousBDragon said:
I think it should remain a hot issue, maybe not the top issue, but should always be in the top five. There is a lot we still do not fully understand about the full lifecycle of abortion. By that I mean we still have a lot of work to do to quantify the indirect consequences of abortion. The NIH has reported that abortion is associated with higher rates of mental-illness. More research needs to be done here. There are indirect costs of abortion that society bares that we still do not fully understand. No woman walks out of an abortion clinic with a big smile on her face. The shame they bare and how to treat that is still an issue medicine is learning about. What about women who are pressured into an abortion from their partner and/or partner’s family? That is not fully quantified either.

Additionally, if you look at abortion as a process, it is a lagging indicator and not a leading indicator. If you really want to solve a problem, you should look at the leading indicators. Unwanted pregnancy is a result of poor family planning practices in society. More Education in optimal family planning is needed. Further, more funding and less red-tape needs to occur in state & federal adoption laws. Often, it can be easier to adopt a foreign child than it is in to get one in this country. If mother’s facing unwanted pregnancy understood that a loving, caring family is readily available they will be more likely to carry to term knowing they have the ability to make a positive impact in someone else’s life.

Lastly, as a Christian, this is where I believe the church can step up more. If every congregation in America had one family adopt or foster one child, we could end this debate overnight. Think about that. Then think about that again & again. My church does wrap-around ministry so support families who want to adopt and/or foster. More of that is needed. We can solve this problem without a single selfish asshole in Washington. The power, as always, is in the people’s hands.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207970/
Click to expand...

You would be surprised how many Christians have adopted. I knew one family at a church that adopted at least 5 kids. One of kids I taught confirmation class was adopted.

I do admit there is a lot more we need to do to support parents financially and to make adoption easier and more attractive.
 
HawkeyeShawn said:
I’m pro choice. I have issues with our government funding abortions or the clinics providing them
Click to expand...

I don't.

EITHER fund those OR be willing to ante up 5x or 10x (perhaps much much more) to buffer our social services systems to handle the adoptions AND provide food, education and meds for those kids for 18 years.

I know which of those options is FAR more cost effective and prudent. Do you?
 
Joes Place said:
Well.......you see, hawkbirch and Wendy.......this is all about White Men.

White Men should be able to tell you that you cannot get an abortion, because it's against God or unethical or whatever.

But, when White Men knock up a prostitute, they should be able to get that prostitute an abortion to cover up their impropriety, without question.

Or, if they work in the WH and they knock up their mistress, they have to be able to hand her, unknowingly, a Plan B smoothie, to abort the fetus and take care of the problem. Can't have any White Men in power inconvenienced by child support or having their wife find out about this shit, y'know.

Also, women really shouldn't even be voting in this country, because that's just screwing things up for White Men, too. In fact, women shouldn't even be on the internet, because their place is in the kitchen, cooking and cleaning.

.......and.......what are you doing on here, anyway? As a White Man, I think you need to get your ass back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich!!!!:mad:
Click to expand...

What you complain about is what I was talking about when it comes to principles.

As I said an unprincipled person is more dangerous than someone with principles I disagree with. That definitely includes the abortion issue.
 
Formerly Rockymtnole said:
Personally, I don’t care one bit and it ticks me off that this issue causes such division in our country. We have so many more important issues facing us, and this seems to prevent progress on fixing real problems.

Anyone else?
Click to expand...
I care about it deeply; however, I care about women facing that situation more so than to have some line in the sand. I think Christians (those who typically are in opposition) would do a much better service by finding ways to serve women (before, after and even instead of) who are faced with this dilemma. Too many Christians picture women roller blading into an abortion clinic touting, "YEE HAAAA! I'm here to kill a baby!" ....and that really isn't the case.

Heck, even if we're gauging this on some sin-level, abortion is absolutely no different the stealing a 5cent piece of gum from a Jiffy Store--sin is sin in God's eyes. It's man who places levels of offense to them; not God.
 
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FormerlyCyberCy said:
I’ve stated that to pro life men and got a “that’s what abortionist say!” response.
Click to expand...

It's a stupid comment that we don't hold true in any other case.

First of all, men are fathers, so this absolutely does affect them.

Secondly we don't tell women they aren't allowed to have opinions on foreign policy even though they never served and never signed up for selective service.

Lastly this debate is ultimately about what we constutue to be human life and what isn't. That's a philosophical and biological issue, not really beholden to any gender.

No one that who is pro life by principle does so because they want to control women. That is just a BS fear mongering statement little different from what the right is doing with policing. It has to do with believing that the unborn are morally and biologically human beings.

Now if you want to accuse people who are pro life politically but not principled (such as that congressman that tried to get his mistress to have an abortion) of that if you want. I don't care. But a person with pro life principles, that is an unfair accusation.

I for example wanted to stop at two children. But I have 3 children, the 3rd was conceived about 2 weeks before I got snipped.
 
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alaskanseminole said:
I care about it deeply; however, I care about women facing that situation more so than to have some line in the sand. I think Christians (those who typically are in opposition) would do a much better service by finding ways to serve women (before, after and even instead of) who are faced with this dilemma. Too many Christians picture women roller blading into an abortion clinic touting, "YEE HAAAA! I'm here to kill a baby!" ....and that really isn't the case.

Heck, even if we're gauging this on some sin-level, abortion is absolutely no different the stealing a 5cent piece of gum from a Jiffy Store--sin is sin in God's eyes. It's man who places levels of offense to them; not God.
Click to expand...

Are you seriously unaware of multiple Christian charities that help women with unplanned pregnancies? Look up Hannah's house. One of my favorite local charities.

Also sins which harm another person such as abortion should be illegal.
 
Hoosierhawkeye said:
You would be surprised how many Christians have adopted. I knew one family at a church that adopted at least 5 kids. One of kids I taught confirmation class was adopted.

I do admit there is a lot more we need to do to support parents financially and to make adoption easier and more attractive.
Click to expand...
My daughter and her husband adopted. He is as much a part of our family and loved every bit as much as our “natural” grandkids. My daughter and her husband can’t have children. Their son is our “little miracle.” They tried unsuccessfully for many years to adopt a child. They had just about given up when out of the blue, they got their baby. The day my son in law called with the news is one of the happiest days of my life.
 
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Formerly Rockymtnole said:
Personally, I don’t care one bit and it ticks me off that this issue causes such division in our country. We have so many more important issues facing us, and this seems to prevent progress on fixing real problems.

Anyone else?
Click to expand...

Where’s the poll?

Mot near the top of my list when looking for a candidate.
 
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