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Do you care about the abortion issue?

Personally, I don’t care one bit and it ticks me off that this issue causes such division in our country. We have so many more important issues facing us, and this seems to prevent progress on fixing real problems.

Anyone else?

I care in that I don't think that's a decision the government should be involved in, but I agree, the power it has to get people to vote against their own interests in so many ways is mind boggling.
 
God if you are spiritual. It’s not difficult.

Edit: That might not be precisely correct. One could argue strict morality too.
Is US law to follow spiritual law?
If spiritual law is enforced, where does funding come from?
 
It’s not my argument to make, but I understand it.
Punt, right?
Lots of Americans wanna tell people how to live their life, but resent funding the decrees.
Look, I am not promoting abortion for abortion sake. That is an individual/family decision.
This issue is another component in our national failure in providing health care for our citizens.
Our nation is a financial titan too miserly to provide for all medical care. A financial titan willing to provide financial largesse to a tiny class, while watching others fall into financial ruin due to a ridiculous health care offering. (I despise the term “health care system”)
Hypocrisy abounds.
 
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I've honestly never given it a lot of thought. I'm not a religious person whatsoever. So, I think I'm more of a pro-choice lean.
 
The history of this nation - sluggish and inconsistent though it has been - has been to expand rights and extend them to more people.

I can't think of anything about America that makes me prouder than that.

We are on the verge of taking away established rights for the first time I can think of. Not here and there on an individual basis, because that happens, but for a whole class of people across the whole nation.
 
The history of this nation - sluggish and inconsistent though it has been - has been to expand rights and extend them to more people.

I can't think of anything about America that makes me prouder than that.

We are on the verge of taking away established rights for the first time I can think of. Not here and there on an individual basis, because that happens, but for a whole class of people across the whole nation.

Good grief people. 🤦
 
Any nation that condones the murder of innocent babies deserves it's fate.
1. We have been dropping bombs on babies in wars much of my lifetime. So I'm really curious to know what fate you think we deserve. Getting richer and more powerful seems to be the answer.

2. How can we tell the difference between babies that are innocent and those that aren't - so we can know which ones are OK to kill?
 
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I care in that I don't think that's a decision the government should be involved in
Government certainly shouldn't be involved in taking this right away.

But it definitely should be involved in protecting this right when it's under attack - just as it should protect any right that's under attack.
 
As an obsitent prick, I don't want people telling me what to do. I also don't want some old, hypocritical bible thumper to feel like he has the right to tell my two girls what they should do with their body and possibly change the trajectory of their lives, so... maybe it is worth the attention it gets.

It is core to the "individual freedom" thing we are so proud of.
Honest question. Your daughters husband asks her to keep an 8 month old unborn baby he knows is his. Would you still be ok with her killing your grandchild without his say? Or what month or term is too far along for you to feel it’s only about your daughter?
6 month?
5 months and 3 days?
4 months?
 
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Honest question. Your daughters husband asks her to keep an 8 month old unborn baby he knows is his. Would you still be ok with her killing your grandchild without his say? Or what month or term is too far along for you to feel it’s only about your daughter?

Less than 1% of abortions happen after 24 weeks and they are done because either the mother's life is at risk or there is a serious issue with the fetus.
 
Personally, I don’t care one bit and it ticks me off that this issue causes such division in our country. We have so many more important issues facing us, and this seems to prevent progress on fixing real problems.

Anyone else?
No, and I was raised Catholic.

Do I like abortions? No, but does anybody?

Bottom line, however, is that It's the woman's choice what to do with her body. No man, no person, has the right to tell that woman and her doctor what do do with an unwanted pregnancy.

The right to an abortion has been the law of the land for decades. It's time to leave it alone and move on.
 
Abortion is far more common than many people realize. I’d be willing to bet that almost everyone on here is friends, family, or works with a woman who has had an abortion. Many don’t talk about it due to the shame and stigma as illustrated by Willie Bonner and others in this thread. However, rest assured that if Roe v. Wade ever gets overturned, you’re going to quickly learn how many of your female friends and relatives care about having their Constitutional rights terminated.

I care about the pro-choice/forced birth debate but it isn’t my top priority like it is for some people. I’m also not a woman and thus less affected by any laws concerning abortion. I do wish it was not the litmus test it is for many because typically governing parties need to be diverse to win, which means that there needs to be some diversity of opinion in the caucus, including on the abortion issue.
 
I will say that one of the things I find most frustrating about the abortion debate is birth control. If you are pro-forced birth, then why the hell would you be against birth control, which reduces the number of abortions? This is where Republicans have gone off the deep end with their fight against contraceptives.

You would think they would be pushing for funding and running charities to help assist with the purchase of it to help prevent "baby murder." That is odd.
 
To the guys saying they don't care one way or the other, I look at it as the bigger issue of the state getting to tell anyone what will happen inside their bodies. It inherently puts women into second-class citizenship. If I don't want someone in my house, I get to kill them and no jury in the land would ever convict me, but if the rightwing minority had its way, if my wife had someone inside her she didn't want there, she'd be forced to carry it to term. Of course the second it was more than 0 seconds old, we'd be on our own feeding it and raising it.
This is by far the most absurd analogy I’ve heard in sometime.

First off, you don’t get to kill anyone in your home you don’t want there. You get to kill someone that breaks into your home. That’s a ton different.

And you see,this extends to your other argument. You don’t get to kill, or your wife kill, another human inside her womb. Unless it forcibly entered scifi movie like in your analogy above. If that happened I’d agree you’d get to kill it. Because in order to get pregnant you had to invite this person into your home. By way of intercourse. If this person entered via rape, or forcibly, you might get me to agree that you can kill it.

So stupid analogy is stupid. Maybe stick to other methods of argument next time.
 
It is important because anti choice candidates tend to be anti other things that are more important to me.

Although agreed, it's the voters that piss me off. "I won't vote for so and so because they're prochoice". No such thing as nuance or looking at multiple issues and deciding the whole is more important than this single issue.

It's like a woman I worked with who was going to vote for a republican female candidate. Person I worked with was democrat but she thought we needed more women representation. Majortalking point for the candidate was to defund government and roll back spending. Central to her goal was to defund the NIH. I told my coworker her voting choice seem a bit moronic considering we worked in an NIH funded lab and her vote for the single issue of female representation would likely cost her the job she was currently in.
 
As an obsitent prick, I don't want people telling me what to do. I also don't want some old, hypocritical bible thumper to feel like he has the right to tell my two girls what they should do with their body and possibly change the trajectory of their lives, so... maybe it is worth the attention it gets.

It is core to the "individual freedom" thing we are so proud of.
I don’t mean to be judgmental but you started that line of attack with the Bible thumper comment.

Maybe their sanctimonious father should have told them that their lives ‘trajectory’ would be best preserved by not letting someone’s penis in them. How about that? Instead of erasing one grave error with another. Not having sex before you’re prepared to be a mother or father seems the best course of action to me. Or having a better father.
 
But as soon as they are born they can go f**k themselves, right?
Yeah because we don’t support children in this country?
Medicaid
Free public school
Free and reduced breakfast and lunch
Before and after daycare
Food stamps
WIC
 
No, and I was raised Catholic.

Do I like abortions? No, but does anybody?

Bottom line, however, is that It's the woman's choice what to do with her body. No man, no person, has the right to tell that woman and her doctor what do do with an unwanted pregnancy.

The right to an abortion has been the law of the land for decades. It's time to leave it alone and move on.
So is the fetus the woman’s property then until it born?
 
I will say that one of the things I find most frustrating about the abortion debate is birth control. If you are pro-forced birth, then why the hell would you be against birth control, which reduces the number of abortions? This is where Republicans have gone off the deep end with their fight against contraceptives.
I’m for contraception. Even emergency contraception.
 
Abortion is far more common than many people realize. I’d be willing to bet that almost everyone on here is friends, family, or works with a woman who has had an abortion. Many don’t talk about it due to the shame and stigma as illustrated by Willie Bonner and others in this thread. However, rest assured that if Roe v. Wade ever gets overturned, you’re going to quickly learn how many of your female friends and relatives care about having their Constitutional rights terminated.

I care about the pro-choice/forced birth debate but it isn’t my top priority like it is for some people. I’m also not a woman and thus less affected by any laws concerning abortion. I do wish it was not the litmus test it is for many because typically governing parties need to be diverse to win, which means that there needs to be some diversity of opinion in the caucus, including on the abortion issue.
I know a friend of my wife who has carried the weight of her first babies abortion around like a millstone since she had it terminated. And it’s messed her up since. Isn’t that something to consider? Allowing women to do something so heinous and encouraging it as men only to have them carry the weight of that around while we as men go on about our daily lives without such a burden? That is sexist as hell. IMO.
 
Honest question. Your daughters husband asks her to keep an 8 month old unborn baby he knows is his. Would you still be ok with her killing your grandchild without his say? Or what month or term is too far along for you to feel it’s only about your daughter?
6 month?
5 months and 3 days?
4 months?

Well, you are lumping a bunch of worse case hypotheticals, but I will give you an honest response. The unknowns are going to vary the answer. So in your worst case are they in a healthy, safe relationship? Married or intending or hooked up once before the 8 months started? You are also trying to throw in a curveball for sake of bringing in the husband's rights into the issue. In general, to nip that in the bud, the husband certainly has rights and needs to be part of the discussion. Ultimately, it is the woman's decision, he/we certainly cannot force a woman to keep a child. We are involved, women are committed.

chicken.png


But......
All of your hypotheticals are the standard "late term is killing a baby" which isn't a viable timeline. Its trying to use emotion to elicit the response you want. So anything beyond 12 most Drs won't do it, or if they do, its due to the health of the mother. So yes, she has my blessing. I tend to believe the community of experts who are using science, reason and logic have determined an appropriate timeframe.
 
I don’t mean to be judgmental but you started that line of attack with the Bible thumper comment.

Maybe their sanctimonious father should have told them that their lives ‘trajectory’ would be best preserved by not letting someone’s penis in them. How about that? Instead of erasing one grave error with another. Not having sex before you’re prepared to be a mother or father seems the best course of action to me. Or having a better father.

Ha, okay. "don't mean to be judgmental, but here I go..." Yes, you do mean to be judgmental. Now, not knowing anything about me you assume I should be a better father. ? Okay, again, if it hurt your feelings that I commented bible thumpers should not force their religious beliefs on my kids (or anyone else) then the issue is yours and you should probably take that up with your god. Thats not an attack, that is a simple expression on who has historically been trying to force their beliefs over other's rights. Using the bible as the "evidence" and a reason the old white men in the position to create and pass the legislation makes them bible thumpers. So if it hurts your feelings, sorry for ya, don't be so sensitive when someone disagrees with your beliefs. You are wrong, something you may simply not be able to understand. Holding one's breathe for abstinence works almost as well as wearing magic underwear.
 
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Conception and abortion are far more complex than a simple for or against. It is true that some women are forever changed and maybe even haunted by their abortion. It is also true that some women are forever burdened by being forced to carry their child to term. Adoption isn’t a simple solution. The father also has rights to the child and unfortunately some men use that pregnancy/child to control the mother. They certainly aren’t going to sign away their rights.
That doesn’t even touch the problem with dead beat dads. If we are okay with government making medical decisions for people maybe we could order chemical castrations for men who don’t pay child support. Tell them if they don’t want to father a child they should just keep it in their pants.
I hate that it’s an issue. I would prefer that people were more careful about who they have sex with. I wish no one was ever forced or coerced to have sex they didn’t want to have or weren’t really ready for. I wish parents wouldn’t model unhealthy relationships so their children would recognize and avoid them. I wish birth control was as easily accessible for everyone as it was for me. And I wish every child was wanted and born into a loving, stable family. But since that isn’t reality I will sadly agree that it isn’t my place to decide for another woman whether it is safe or reasonable for her to continue her pregnancy.
But to answer the question, it isn’t a top of the line issue for me but it’s a consideration. But as many have said, those who align with my bigger issues tend to align here as well.
 
I’ve stated that to pro life men and got a “that’s what abortionist say!” response.
Well... unless I'm suffering from amnesia, I've never performed an abortion, seen an abortion, condoned or participated in an abortion, or anything else.

I'm never going to have to carry a pregnancy to term, and all it entails. I can't ever come close to knowing what that experience is like. Until men can get pregnant and give birth, they're not qualified to call the shots. They're spectators.
 
This, pro-life but liberal on many other issues. Trump needs to go. Also I think anyone who thinks he is a principled pro-lifer or that he has any principles at all are crazy.
Would have given you a like if you stopped after the second sentence. Not sure what you are getting at. I believe I am principles and pro life. If you meant pro choice, There are way too many people smarter than me who are pro choice to say it is unprincipled or wrong on other issues. I just think they are wrong on that particular issue.
 
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