Should doctors be able to amputate healthy human limbs at a patient's discretion?
If I ask a doctor to amputate my foot because I feel like it?
Yes. The doctor should also be able to refuse that service at their discretion.
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Should doctors be able to amputate healthy human limbs at a patient's discretion?
babies aren't self-sustaining either.
FYI: I am very much pro-life; however, in recent years, I've listened to opposing views and understand that not everyone believes as I do. I think Pro-Lifers would have a greater success rate at reduction rather than eradication. It's touted as a black and white situation by both sides and it really isn't. It's a very sensitive and personal topic that requires care and forethought, but rather we see nothing but anger and vitriol; after all, we're discussing human life.I tend to think biology proves that a fetus is a individual human being and I posted a study not long ago which showed that the vast majority of biologists including very pro-choice biologists agree with that assessment.
I tend to be against it because it doesn't do much to protect us from crime and it's been applied unevenly. Also the fact that people have been sent to death row but later found to be innocent means we apparently can not create a system in which the DP is only applied where there is surety of guilt.
On the moral level in theory I am not opposed to killing someone who has killed someone in an especially heinous way, killed a vulnerable person (A child or someone disabled for example.), or killed multiple people. But that is mostly in theory and I have little hope that the DP would itself would ever be applied fairly and I strongly doubt it could be applied perfectly (only applied in cases where there is surety of guilt). So therefore I find it better just to rid ourselves of it.
that is not splitting hairs that is observing that infants/fetuses are entirely dependent on others to live and are not self-sustaining life forms.Let's not split hairs around semantics, please. You're technically right, of course, but babies can breathe on their own and make noise to let their caregivers know they need something.
FYI: I am very much pro-life; however, in recent years, I've listened to opposing views and understand that not everyone believes as I do. I think Pro-Lifers would have a greater success rate at reduction rather than eradication. It's touted as a black and white situation by both sides and it really isn't. It's a very sensitive and personal topic that requires care and forethought, but rather we see nothing but anger and vitriol; after all, we're discussing human life.
I also agree with Tenacious E...I am in support of the death penalty conceptually, but not under current implantation. Insert his post as my response.
I hear you...my heart agrees with you, but I struggle with regulating my beliefs on others...I'm probably more torn on this topic than any other, but it's the one I'm most willing to listen to both sides.I would agree with you in a lot of ways, that more needs to be done in this country so women don't feel pushed towards abortion. And that would include things like universal health care.
Where we disagree is that I believe abortion should be just flat out illegal in all cases save for when necessary to save the life of the mother.
All of the support in the world is not going to prevent people from aborting children just because they don't feel like having a child and it's not going to prevent children from being viewed as a commodity rather than as human beings.
As noted earlier in this thread (or maybe it was another abortion thread) as a "middle ground" I think one could be mostly pro-life but could live with the morning after pill, whereby a fertilized egg is not permitted to implant. It is akin to not providing a "lifeline" in the form of resuscitation if there is a DNR order. But I still recognize it is not an entirely consistent position.I hear you...my heart agrees with you, but I struggle with regulating my beliefs on others...I'm probably more torn on this topic than any other, but it's the one I'm most willing to listen to both sides.
I agree there's much that can be done in the middle while the debate rages on.
I hear you...my heart agrees with you, but I struggle with regulating my beliefs on others...I'm probably more torn on this topic than any other, but it's the one I'm most willing to listen to both sides.
I agree there's much that can be done in the middle while the debate rages on.
As noted earlier in this thread (or maybe it was another abortion thread) as a "middle ground" I think one could be mostly pro-life but could live with the morning after pill, whereby a fertilized egg is not permitted to implant. It is akin to not providing a "lifeline" in the form of resuscitation if there is a DNR order. But I still recognize it is not an entirely consistent position.
babies aren't self-sustaining either.
An infant is self-sustaining, although dependent on a parent for nourishment, shelter, etc.
The infant is no longer connected to its mother, therefore self-sustaining. Simple enough.
Dudes can't mansplain abortion?Reading a board of mostly white dudes sharing their opinions on abortion is almost as enlightening as all the race threads in a 90 pct white state. Just fascinating insight, fellas. Dmitri Bonney proving he's human shit as always.....can't knock the consistency at least
Not sure how a discussion on life should be limited to race or gender. Isn't the discussion simply is a fetus a life or isn't it and should it be taken prematurely if it is, in fact, a life. Not sure how gender/race would affect one's ability to determine the existence of life.Reading a board of mostly white dudes sharing their opinions on abortion is almost as enlightening as all the race threads in a 90 pct white state. Just fascinating insight, fellas. Dmitri Bonney proving he's human shit as always.....can't knock the consistency at least
I'm comfortable with my position on abortion.
How about letting the women have their abortion and while they are killing the baby they make it so she can never get pregnant again?
So you don’t believe in the magical vagina that turns a “bunch of cells” into life in seconds?This irks me. I am liberal on many fronts but am pro life. Minding one’s own business with regard to the unborn, to me, is akin to minding one’s own business with an abused child. It is one of the more interesting things to me how fiercely the left advocates for children or not, depending on what side of the womb the kid is. With that said, the issue is not as important to me as getting trump the hell out of office.
So you don’t believe in the magical vagina that turns a “bunch of cells” into life in seconds?
Thats your problem?
So the magical vagina turns a disposable fetus into life in a matter of seconds.Yeah. An embryo doesn't implant in, and a fetus does not grow in, the vagina.
Stupid statement. Lumping all Republicans into one. You cannot be this stupid can you?My wife had four blood transfusions from a very difficult cesarean after a failed induction. The whole process took 48 hours. She lost consciousness a number of times.
Republicans don’t even want to wear masks and consider safer-at-home orders worse than the Japanese Internment.
Stupid statement. Lumping all Republicans into one. You cannot be this stupid can you?
Nobody is questioning whether human fetal cells are, um, human.I tend to think biology proves that a fetus is a individual human being and I posted a study not long ago which showed that the vast majority of biologists including very pro-choice biologists agree with that assessment.
Say s who Bill Boner youThe woman's choice ends when she has sex and gets pregnant. Ending a unique human life isn't a choice she has the right to make.
I can’t. They’re dead.
So after 5 weeks. I could get behind this but I still come back to the issue of caring for unwanted babies. Pro lifers seem only concerned about the birth and not about the child. That's f'd up thinking in my mind.I think you could create a biologically consistent position that starts not at conception but at brainwaves.
The brain develops over our lifetimes. So my biological positions is that brainwaves mark the beginning of life, even if the brain is very small and not very developed.
The added point is that brain death defines how we view the end of life. Seems to me that we could define the beginning of life that way too.
YepPro lifers seem only concerned about the birth and not about the child. That's f'd up thinking in my mind.
And for a “a-spiritual @ or non-spiritual...who the phuque are you to tell them how to live their life? Don’t you get it? Keep your nose outta others business, unless asked.God if you are spiritual. It’s not difficult.
Edit: That might not be precisely correct. One could argue strict morality too.
And for a “a-spiritual @ or non-spiritual...who the phuque are you to tell them how to live their life?