Does Ahron Ulis Pass Joe Toussaint on the Depth Chart Next Year?
- Thread starter IowasLaw
- Start date
There's also something to be said for the sophomore slump.
That too but I think he is still just pressing too hard.
Oh, absolutely. He's trying to do too much. But he's also shot the ball poorly. I know Weezy had his ups and downs last year and I'm pretty sure Garza was the same way his sophomore year. It happens.
Had 4.5 TO’s per40 min last year, this year 4.7 so about the same. Increased assts per 40 by about 1.5. Shooting % about the same. Especially considering the decreased playing time I really wouldn’t call it a “slump”.
Obviously it's about matchups. Maybe the opponent goes small for a few minutes too. I'd like to see minutes from that group of 5 at some point next season.
Absolutely they are, and I’ll add that Joe T. Is an above average rebounder. At their positions,
I don’t think either Toussaint or Ulis will start. I think we go this way:
Connor
Fredrick
Wieskamp
Keegan
Nunge
(But both JT and AU are part of the regular rotation)
Connor
Fredrick
Wieskamp
Keegan
Nunge
(But both JT and AU are part of the regular rotation)
Patrick may start instead of Keegan. I'm not saying he should, just that it might happen.
I don't think he will ever be the best player on an Iowa team. But could always be wrong. At this point, anyone who says definitively who will be better, Toussaint or Ulis, is just guessing. If Toussaint is going to play big minutes next year, he will have to play much, much better than he has so far this year. He has a turnover rate of over 27%, far and away the highest on the team. He's making 40% of his 2-point shots, far and way the worst of any of the rotation players, and he's 2-8 from 3-point range this year. None of that is good, at all. His foul rate per 40 minutes is also highest on the team. All of those stats basically make him unplayable for big minutes right now. He did play much better in spots last season when he got more consistent minutes when Frederick was injured and Bohannon was shut down in December. Toussaint basically needs to drastically reduce the volume of mistakes to be able to play more minutes. It's a balance, as you want guys to be aggressive and try to make plays. But you can't put a player with those numbers on the floor for very many minutes.
That's all fine and good, every player should want to play more. And totally agree that players generally play better with more minutes.
But the way to get on the floor more is to practice great and take advantage of the minutes that he does get. He just hasn't been very good lately when he gets in. The goal is to win games, and Bohannon is playing at a tremendous level right now.
I think you are going to see a different Joe next year. He’s pressing a bit this season, by trying to make an impact each time he’s in the game. He’s had flashes of what we will see in the future. With more minutes, I believe he’ll let the game come to him and turn the ball over much less. If he doesn’t, Ulis will probably get the majority of minutes at PG.
I would guess, Fran has asked Joe to be aggressive both on D and driving to the hoop. Joe does commit quite a few fouls but he also forces quite a few turnovers.
If Toussaint is our best player we are in big trouble. That isn't happening, without some MAJOR improvement. He will still get plenty of minutes, and Ulis will too.
If Fran can get Joe T to dial it back a bit, maybe he's the guy. That's a big IF from my viewpoint. I just don't want a guy who is helter-skelter at all times "running" the Team. He's good in spurts, my preference would be that's how his Iowa career plays out. Change of pace guy, and on the bench in crunch time unless he changes the narrative, which he might. I guess we'll see.
Your point guard IMO should be a guy who is a calming influence, takes care of the ball, and can make shots and free throws when it matters most. I don't see Joe T as that guy, and they are hard to come by, but we don't know if Ulis is yet either (he takes care of the ball and can make free throws, we do know that much I believe).
He's done some good things, he just scares me, and I think we have options.
Could we possibly see Conner at the point. CJ, Joe W, Murray, and Jack? That group would have some defensive quickness issues out front, but we’d know what to expect rather then projecting growth. We could certainly bring D off the pine.
Probably would be our strongest rebounding group. I could see pretty solid ball handling from this experienced group. Our second group would add athletic skills if needed.
Probably would be our strongest rebounding group. I could see pretty solid ball handling from this experienced group. Our second group would add athletic skills if needed.
Joe Ts minutes are down in part because JBo is playing at a really high level at the moment, but I still think Joe is very valuable going forward this year. The defense of this team improves with any of Joe T, Patrick M, Keegan, or Nunge step on the floor. There may be games when more defense is needed and more minutes from a guard like Joe.
The early indications for the next two seasons is four good guards, nicely staggered by class due to this free red shirt (if I understand the rule the correctly). Tony had fine jumper today and he to looks like a guy that will play defense and the athletic skill to do it well. As it stands today you have to be pretty high on the this and the next four seasons of Hawkeye backcourt starters. Long term stability of quality players.
Here is another example of not seeing the little things that make a big difference. Joe T's constant hustle out there inspires others to get more serious on the defensive end. It always seems like when he enters, the D ratchets it up to more acceptable levels.
Joe T actually reminds me of former NBA and Mich St star Eric Snow. The guy was a true disruptor early in his career but got out of control often, turned the ball over a lot and was a horrible shooter (much worse than Joe T). But in his Jr year and especially in his Sr year, he suddenly got under control, became an 80+% FT shooter and good shooter overall and went to the NBA. If he can do it, Joe T can. As we've seen with Luka, it's all about putting in the work. I say he figures it out. Sheesh folks lets give our kids time and enjoy the greatest team I've seen at least since 1987.
💯agree. based on what we’ve seen YTD, This absolutely would be the starting lineup if the 2021-22 season started tomorrow. I do not see JoeT starting.
It is longer, bigger, Wieskamp becomes true #3, Keegan and Nunge bring better defense.
💯 agree.
if anything, JoeT is consistently erratic, another 3 TOs, against 3 Assists. I’m not sure that style had changed an iota since his 1st game at IOWA...?
i do thinks it’s too early to tell, and joeT was the incumbent back up PG, so he got the back up reps, but come next season, Fran will have ample time to determine which style is best, chaos vs steady ( I think I prefer mistake free steady). I do hope Fran can get Ulis some minutes in these blow outs
We all got a glimpse of what Ulis could do when Iowa played Rutgers. He looked silky smooth on offense and his defense was very very good. I love Joe T, he’s fast and tough to stop, but he also can be erratic and make mistakes. I think he and Ulis should split minutes next year with Joe starting. I believe Joe is our best passer besides CMac and he’s constantly disrupting the opposing offense. Everyone needs to remember BJ Armstrong was out of control his first couple of years in IC.
Posters on here drooled over Zavier Simpson at Michigan for years saying THAT is the type pg Iowa needed. I wasn’t quite as enamored due mostly to his poor FT shooting. Beilein was forced at times to put Zavier on the bench late in games because of his poor FT shooting. I prefer the team’s primary ball handler late in games to be an excellent FT shooter (Ulis has certainly shown this). Well, Joe T is similar to Zavier so where are the posters that were drooling over Zavier. Zavier averaged over 3 TOs as a senior but almost 10 assists per game.
I agree on the TOs but Joe shot 83% last year from the line as a starter.
His choke at Minnesota doesn't mean he can't hit freethrows.
I know, Joe is “deadly” from the FT line compared to Zavier. Zavier was below 60% for his career. Didn’t mean to say Joe was similar in that way. More reason the posters that drooled over Zavier should be drooling over Joe, a Zavier Simpson that won’t shoot 50% from the FT line. That said I don’t think Joe will shoot over. 80% for his career while I think Ulis might. I’d be happy with Joe from the FT line to shoot over 70%.
I am just a touch confused, I have read on this site that Joe T should very obviously be in the starting line-up. If Ulis is better that Joe T, how can Ulis be moved ahead of Joe? I still do not understand who Joe T. replaces in said starting line-up... so who does Ulis replace when he replaces Joe T?
Toussaint is a guy who will settle down and be a really good starting PG next year. Hell, towards the end of last year he showed that. Bohannon comes back and Joe T's minutes go down, which presents a mental challenge for a player. He seems to be pressing a little, trying to make as much an impact as he can in smaller windows of playing time.
I think he'll be great next year. I'm really impressed by how he's handling this year. I'm always watching the bench during games, whenever the camera pans to it or it is included in the frame I'm always interested to observe bench behaviors—they can tell a lot about the health of a team's culture at a given time or in a given year. And Joe T is always super-supportive, super into the game.
I think he'll be great next year. I'm really impressed by how he's handling this year. I'm always watching the bench during games, whenever the camera pans to it or it is included in the frame I'm always interested to observe bench behaviors—they can tell a lot about the health of a team's culture at a given time or in a given year. And Joe T is always super-supportive, super into the game.
I will confirm that you're confused. I wasn't until I read this. Have a good day regardless.
I agree with all of this,.. Joe just needs the reigns for an extended period of time to get comfortable and take ownership...
I hope it's that simple. He's already an adequate point guard, but if you want to consistently win big games that matter when you have a competent core around you, you need more than that. We shall see if he becomes that.
I hate to say this, because I really expected JoT to take a major step forward this year, but if there was a a late game situation, and either he or Ulis had to play, I would go with Ulis. At this point, he is less likely to lose the ball trying to make the spectacular play, and he is ice at the line.
Comparing JoeT to Armstrong: Joe Fr TO/40Min = 4.44 So 4.9 FG% 38 each year
Armstong Fr 3.5 So 3.2 FG 48 and 52%
So Joe isn't horribly worse on turnovers, but about 1 or 1.5 a game, which I guess is quite a bit worse.
I realize comparing about anybody to BJ would make them look bad, tho.
Armstong Fr 3.5 So 3.2 FG 48 and 52%
So Joe isn't horribly worse on turnovers, but about 1 or 1.5 a game, which I guess is quite a bit worse.
I realize comparing about anybody to BJ would make them look bad, tho.
I see JoeT as a helluva competitor, an enthusiastic team mate, and a guy that could be a significant contributor, I hope he becomes all of that at IOWA, either this year, next year or the following year.
in terms of this year, it’s hard to argue that his offensive play has been somewhat of a disappointment, certainly below his freshman campaign, and in terms of the hard cold analytics, JoeT is the last guy you want with the ball on offense as his high TO rate, low FG%, can not offset his assist generated or steals.
we don’t know what Ulis is like, outside of the 1 game with extended minutes with the 1st team, although promising, is still too small a sample and clearly Fran sees more of the picture in practices everyday. So at this point, trusting Fran with his PG strategy is fine,
i would like to see Joe play in short minutes, vs an opponents best PG, thinking that fresh legs going 💯 on defense wears down opponents, however, I would like to see him get over the ball screens on the perimeter as again went ‘underneath‘ the screen at jNWN, and his guy, their shooter, drilled a 3 pointer. (Again this is limited sample, but we’ve seen this before).
all that said, I’d like to see these guys (Ulis, JoeT, Perkins )play a few more meaningful minutes and am not a fan of Baer and Ash jacking up shots in last 2 minutes where these scholarship players are deprived of an opportunity to work on their games.
I agree, theres really no reason for Ash and Baer to be playing novelty minutes on a team with 12 guys who are real players.
Similar threads
