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Does ISU have best football fans in America?

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HawkeyesAndCubs1023

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Jul 30, 2004
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Before you label me as certifiably insane, please hear me out on the following:

1. By "best" I don't mean most. ISU will never have a large football fanbase due to the following: second most popular team in a low-population state; few non-alumni fans; putrid history; low program ceiling.

2. Considering the items in number 1, working in ISU's favor is the fact that a great deal of Cyclone alumni remain in Iowa to live and work upon graduation. ISU has more kids from Iowa attending school than the U of I, and much more stay in Iowa after college, which creates a loyal bunch of fans. In my 8 years of living in Arizona, for every one ISU shirt/hat/bumper sticker/etc. I have probably seen 50 Tigerhawks. It is much closer in-state.

3. Despite horrific on-field performance and very little hope of ever competing in the southern-tilted Big 12, ISU completed a very nice rennovation/expansion of their stadium. Attendance has been up the last few years, despite the fact that the program hasn't finished above .500 since 2009. I expect attendance to dwindle during the remaining home games, but for ISU to get over 50K fans for he product they put on the field is remarkable. This is a program that hasn't had a 1st round NFL draft pick since the Richard Nixon administration, hasn't finished .500 in their conference in over a decade, and has set school attendance records over the past few years. Where else in America could that happen.

4. Common sense would tell us that after ISU finishes the 2015 season with a 2-10 record, that Jack Trice would see attendance take a nosedive in 2016. However, Jamie Pollard will fire Paul Rhoads and hire a new coach, who Cyclone fans will expect to be their savior. Gene Chizik had a commemorative coin when he arrived, and Paul Rhoads was hailed as ISU's Bill Snyder after capping off upset wins with "I'm So Proud" speeches. I expect ISU to promote the heck out of this new hire, leverage billboards, and generate excitement to "Pack The Jack" in 2016.

Jamie Pollard is one of the best salespeople in America. His athletic department has been able to successfully package and position football tickets while selling improvement, and ISU fans have continued to buy tickets.

All of these factors lead me to believe that while ISU does not have a large football fanbase, its devotes group of football fans are among the best and most loyal in America. Your thoughts?
 
I have thought this same thing myself over the past few years - where else could you continue to deliver a steaming heap of garbage season after season for decades, and still have 50k+ fans come out to see it every week? Other than the pre-2015 north side of Chicago I mean - and that area has a lot more going for it than Ames, including about 2.5 million more human beings. It's inexplicable, impressive, and pathetic all at the same time.
 
If you think they are good fans now, take a look at the enrollment stats and imagine the possibilities!
 
MepoDawg,

I posted this here because I was hoping to get some diverse opinions in this, and also because I expect at least a handful of ISU fans will chime in.

And to your comment above, I would disagree with you from a pure loyalty standpoint. If Iowa puts the product on the field that ISU puts forth (Kirk's inexplicably terrible record against ISU aside), Kinnick would not draw as many fans as Trice. I'm not certain this is something to be 100% proud of, but I am convinced that ISU may be the only school in America that is experiencing his attendance relative to the product.

Some have bought the narrative that the program isn't that bad, but the Big 12 is on par with the AFC East, but most acknowledge that the program is terrible.
 
With no Iowa or UNI on its home schedule, and after yet another losing season, it'll be interesting to see how many fans show up next year. With a new stadium expansion, they can't practically give away tickets forever. At some point they'll need to start charging more if they want to avoid financial trouble.
 
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I mean you could make that argument b/c damn they suck and have always sucked and yet people still claim them.....that is loyalty (or stupidity)........
 
Hime_Peterson said:
MepoDawg,

I posted this here because I was hoping to get some diverse opinions in this, and also because I expect at least a handful of ISU fans will chime in.

And to your comment above, I would disagree with you from a pure loyalty standpoint. If Iowa puts the product on the field that ISU puts forth (Kirk's inexplicably terrible record against ISU aside), Kinnick would not draw as many fans as Trice. I'm not certain this is something to be 100% proud of, but I am convinced that ISU may be the only school in America that is experiencing his attendance relative to the product.

Some have bought the narrative that the program isn't that bad, but the Big 12 is on par with the AFC East, but most acknowledge that the program is terrible.
Click to expand...
So Iowa fans get discredited because they will speak with their wallet when they believe a change is needed? Loyalty isn't always good. Also, just because a student attends there doesn't mean they are a fan of the ISU football team. Despite what some clones think you can attend one school because of academics and be a fan of another team.
 
MepoDawg# said:
So Iowa fans get discredited because they will speak with their wallet when they believe a change is needed? Loyalty isn't always good. Also, just because a student attends there doesn't mean they are a fan of the ISU football team. Despite what some clones think you can attend one school because of academics and be a fan of another team.
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For a fan base loyalty is a good thing, besides how did that work out for those speaking out with their pocket book? Seems to me that they are missing out on some pretty good games and one helluva season....fans think they have all the answers and in reality are pretty dumb (this includes me even though I do coach)
 
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Having gone through the really dark yrs. of Iowa football, even they drew 46,000-48,000. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe seating capacity was around 55,000-60,000 back in the 60's to early 70's. Iowa has always had die hard fans. Hayden even said one reason he came to Iowa was they would give standing ovations for 1st downs.

ISU is bad but not quite as bad as Iowa was in the 60's and 70's. They are trying though. Hang on to Rhoads a few more yrs. and they might get there. I will admit Rhoads does put on a better sideline show then any Iowa coach I've ever seen.
 
milehighhawkeye24 said:
For a fan base loyalty is a good thing, besides how did that work out for those speaking out with their pocket book? Seems to me that they are missing out on some pretty good games and one helluva season....fans think they have all the answers and in reality are pretty dumb (this includes me even though I do coach)
Click to expand...
Plus 1000. Those who spoke with their pocketbook are missing out on a ton of fun this year. It is nice having shorter lines at the bathroom though!
 
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No.

A better example off the top of my head would be S Carolina. Look at the long history of the program, the way they churned through a series of 4 or 5 year coaches, the relatively poor performances, and the average attendances they've drawn.

Yes, ISU has historically fielded bad teams and Pollard's magicry of recent has made it seem as if they've got a devoted legion, but it's not to the degree of Carolina.

I think a wise move for ISU would be to drop down to FCS, build up a rep as a giant among midgets, and try it again when they've got the program rolling. Right now their program really isn't self sustaining in any measure.
 
BTW, this is largely a "new" phenomenon, these "great fans" selling out the stadium even during losing seasons hasn't been around that long.
 
I think your comments about Pollard being a good marketer are closer to the root of the matter than "ISU fans are the best". As much as I have disliked a lot of what Pollard has done, I can also appreciate how he's gotten ISU fans some excitement and reason for hope. Eventually, continued failure on the football field will bleed away the current upswelling of support, but they are still showing up for now. Another factor is that some Clone fans are still hoping for a repeat of the Okie State game from a few years back. I know a few folks who were ticked at themselves for not making it to that game. Maybe lightning will strike twice??
 
theIowaHawk said:
I'd be interested in reading more about the latter part of this, that they stay in Iowa after graduating. TIA.
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I'm not sure it's true. I'm not arguing with it; I just am not sure it's true. What the UI has is a lot of professional people who stay in state and have a lot of money.

The big difference historically has been that the typical ISU student was more interested in academics and less interested in extracurricular activities than was the typical UI student. This was not an unusual difference between liberal arts and engineering/ag schools. Students who wanted to be engineers wanted to get their degree and get on with their lives; students in liberal arts wanted to have the traditional college experience. At Iowa for decades, going to a football game Saturday was the thing to do, while at Ames, going to a football game was something you did when the team was good, which wasn't often. That attitude carried over to alums. Iowa grads had fond memories of parties, football Saturdays, etc; ISU grads didn't.

That began changing in the '70s, I think, and for the past couple of decades the difference hasn't been as striking as it was. One of the things Pollard has done is work to make the game day experience attractive beyond the game itself.

I think one reason attendance has stayed surprisingly strong in recent years is that until the last couple of years, the product was fun to watch even if it wasn't winning -- and you knew that there always was a chance to win. There was a significant upset almost every year in Rhoads first few seasons. That wasn't the case the last two years and it isn't the case this year. That's what ultimate cost Mac his job, IMHO; you just knew that if ISU was an underdog, it was going to lose. In 12 years, he was 3-40 against ranked teams. And fans started expressing their attitude by not buying tickets, and that was that.

I assume attendance at the Texas game Oct. 31 will depend upon, among other things, the weather and how badly ISU loses at Waco this week. If my guys do their imitation of Branch Davidians, which seems likely, even the chance to upset the smarmy teasips might not be enough to bring the fans back.
 
Best football fans in America? No.
But, they do have very good attendance numbers given the inferior product on the field. As little as I think of Pollard, I think at least some credit is due him to have accomplished that.
 
Lone Clone said:
I'm not sure it's true. I'm not arguing with it; I just am not sure it's true. What the UI has is a lot of professional people who stay in state and have a lot of money.

The big difference historically has been that the typical ISU student was more interested in academics and less interested in extracurricular activities than was the typical UI student. This was not an unusual difference between liberal arts and engineering/ag schools. Students who wanted to be engineers wanted to get their degree and get on with their lives; students in liberal arts wanted to have the traditional college experience. At Iowa for decades, going to a football game Saturday was the thing to do, while at Ames, going to a football game was something you did when the team was good, which wasn't often. That attitude carried over to alums. Iowa grads had fond memories of parties, football Saturdays, etc; ISU grads didn't.

That began changing in the '70s, I think, and for the past couple of decades the difference hasn't been as striking as it was. One of the things Pollard has done is work to make the game day experience attractive beyond the game itself.

I think one reason attendance has stayed surprisingly strong in recent years is that until the last couple of years, the product was fun to watch even if it wasn't winning -- and you knew that there always was a chance to win. There was a significant upset almost every year in Rhoads first few seasons. That wasn't the case the last two years and it isn't the case this year. That's what ultimate cost Mac his job, IMHO; you just knew that if ISU was an underdog, it was going to lose. In 12 years, he was 3-40 against ranked teams. And fans started expressing their attitude by not buying tickets, and that was that.
This is a fair assesment

I assume attendance at the Texas game Oct. 31 will depend upon, among other things, the weather and how badly ISU loses at Waco this week. If my guys do their imitation of Branch Davidians, which seems likely, even the chance to upset the smarmy teasips might not be enough to bring the fans back.
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Everybody knows Nebraska has the best fans in the country. Unless they happen to go 9-4 or worse, then they whine non-stop and fire their coach. If they do have a good season, 11-2 or better, they are very very arrogant, even more than usual, but besides that they're great.
 
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Hime_Peterson said:
Before you label me as certifiably insane, please hear me out on the following:

1. By "best" I don't mean most. ISU will never have a large football fanbase due to the following: second most popular team in a low-population state; few non-alumni fans; putrid history; low program ceiling.

2. Considering the items in number 1, working in ISU's favor is the fact that a great deal of Cyclone alumni remain in Iowa to live and work upon graduation. ISU has more kids from Iowa attending school than the U of I, and much more stay in Iowa after college, which creates a loyal bunch of fans. In my 8 years of living in Arizona, for every one ISU shirt/hat/bumper sticker/etc. I have probably seen 50 Tigerhawks. It is much closer in-state.

3. Despite horrific on-field performance and very little hope of ever competing in the southern-tilted Big 12, ISU completed a very nice rennovation/expansion of their stadium. Attendance has been up the last few years, despite the fact that the program hasn't finished above .500 since 2009. I expect attendance to dwindle during the remaining home games, but for ISU to get over 50K fans for he product they put on the field is remarkable. This is a program that hasn't had a 1st round NFL draft pick since the Richard Nixon administration, hasn't finished .500 in their conference in over a decade, and has set school attendance records over the past few years. Where else in America could that happen.

4. Common sense would tell us that after ISU finishes the 2015 season with a 2-10 record, that Jack Trice would see attendance take a nosedive in 2016. However, Jamie Pollard will fire Paul Rhoads and hire a new coach, who Cyclone fans will expect to be their savior. Gene Chizik had a commemorative coin when he arrived, and Paul Rhoads was hailed as ISU's Bill Snyder after capping off upset wins with "I'm So Proud" speeches. I expect ISU to promote the heck out of this new hire, leverage billboards, and generate excitement to "Pack The Jack" in 2016.

Jamie Pollard is one of the best salespeople in America. His athletic department has been able to successfully package and position football tickets while selling improvement, and ISU fans have continued to buy tickets.

All of these factors lead me to believe that while ISU does not have a large football fanbase, its devotes group of football fans are among the best and most loyal in America. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Yes, they have the best fans in America. I would also like to think that we are a close second
 
What was attendance at Trice in the Aughts? 50k?

In 2002, ISU got all the way up to #9 and averaged 44k fans, with two 51k+ games against Nebraska and Texas Tech, so even in one of their best years in memory (eventually losing last 4, and 6/7) they weren't selling like they do today. This is a new phenomenon. It irks me the way the DMRegister consistently claims the Cyclones fans are diehards that always show up.

In 2000 they went 9-3 and were challenging for the North and averaged 42,000, with their last game having under 37,000. That is the best w/l season in the last, what, century, and it wasn't selling out.
 
Hime_Peterson said:
Before you label me as certifiably insane, please hear me out on the following:

1. By "best" I don't mean most. ISU will never have a large football fanbase due to the following: second most popular team in a low-population state; few non-alumni fans; putrid history; low program ceiling.

2. Considering the items in number 1, working in ISU's favor is the fact that a great deal of Cyclone alumni remain in Iowa to live and work upon graduation. ISU has more kids from Iowa attending school than the U of I, and much more stay in Iowa after college, which creates a loyal bunch of fans. In my 8 years of living in Arizona, for every one ISU shirt/hat/bumper sticker/etc. I have probably seen 50 Tigerhawks. It is much closer in-state.

3. Despite horrific on-field performance and very little hope of ever competing in the southern-tilted Big 12, ISU completed a very nice rennovation/expansion of their stadium. Attendance has been up the last few years, despite the fact that the program hasn't finished above .500 since 2009. I expect attendance to dwindle during the remaining home games, but for ISU to get over 50K fans for he product they put on the field is remarkable. This is a program that hasn't had a 1st round NFL draft pick since the Richard Nixon administration, hasn't finished .500 in their conference in over a decade, and has set school attendance records over the past few years. Where else in America could that happen.

4. Common sense would tell us that after ISU finishes the 2015 season with a 2-10 record, that Jack Trice would see attendance take a nosedive in 2016. However, Jamie Pollard will fire Paul Rhoads and hire a new coach, who Cyclone fans will expect to be their savior. Gene Chizik had a commemorative coin when he arrived, and Paul Rhoads was hailed as ISU's Bill Snyder after capping off upset wins with "I'm So Proud" speeches. I expect ISU to promote the heck out of this new hire, leverage billboards, and generate excitement to "Pack The Jack" in 2016.

Jamie Pollard is one of the best salespeople in America. His athletic department has been able to successfully package and position football tickets while selling improvement, and ISU fans have continued to buy tickets.

All of these factors lead me to believe that while ISU does not have a large football fanbase, its devotes group of football fans are among the best and most loyal in America. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...


Iowa State's attendance figures the past few years are not accurate. May be they are accurate in terms of actual tickets sold, i guess, but their stadium is not as full as they will have you believe. I lived in Ames for nearly 4 years from 2010-2013 and now live in Ankeny and by no choice of my own I make it to a lot of ISU games. The student are NOT at the games and the upper corners are very bare. The game last week against TCU - the 3rd best team in the country, I would say there was at AT LEAST 10-15,000 empty seats on a very nice night. They might say "official attendance is 60,000" but its not even close.
 
Iowa back in the late 60's to late 70's drew amazing crowds with lousy teams because the Iowa fan base was just loyal. Now after Hayden Fry and Kirk the fan base has come to expect good teams or they won't show up.
 
Birky said:
Sometimes teams stay in a game for a quarter or two with smoke and mirrors. Iowa State fills their stadium for a couple of games with smoke and mirrors. Here is an example.

https://www.groupon.com/deals/gl-iowa-state-cyclones-via-fanxchange
Click to expand...

You realize Groupon has Iowa tickets for sale on there too right? Neither of them come from the University.

ISU will probably have decent attendance for the Texas game since it's Homecoming and a night game but will have next to nothing for Rhoads last game in Ames on Nov 14th
 
CyCity said:
You realize Groupon has Iowa tickets for sale on there too right? Neither of them come from the University.

ISU will probably have decent attendance for the Texas game since it's Homecoming and a night game but will have next to nothing for Rhoads last game in Ames on Nov 14th
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You sure about that? I'm calling BS, but I will be happy if true. I'm interested in some $10 Iowa tickets. Very interested. Hell, do they have any Iowa tickets for $50?
 
ISU fans=Cubs fans. Never win anything, rarely go bowling. They are mostly ignorant of the game and just enjoy the environment. They haven't won a conference title in over 100 years!

Iowa fans=Cardinals fans. Knowledgable of the game & frequently win titles and go bowling
 
hawks127 said:
Iowa State's attendance figures the past few years are not accurate. May be they are accurate in terms of actual tickets sold, i guess, but their stadium is not as full as they will have you believe. I lived in Ames for nearly 4 years from 2010-2013 and now live in Ankeny and by no choice of my own I make it to a lot of ISU games. The student are NOT at the games and the upper corners are very bare. The game last week against TCU - the 3rd best team in the country, I would say there was at AT LEAST 10-15,000 empty seats on a very nice night. They might say "official attendance is 60,000" but its not even close.
Click to expand...
Iowa State's announced numbers are accurate. Or at least there's absolutely no reason to think they aren't accurate. Like everybody else, they announce tickets sold.

I have said ever since schools started scanning tickets when people enter a stadium (or arena) that they should announce both tickets sold and actual attendance. I don't know of any school that does this....although I assume the latter number is public and you could get it if you wanted it.

I sit on the East side, so I can't estimate attendance accurately; I just assume the East side looks about like the West side. I think your estimate of 10,15,000 empty seats for TCU is in the ballpark. No pun intended. And of course a lot people left at halftime or shortly thereafter, when it became clear ISU wasn't going to get the upset.
 
Birky said:
You sure about that? I'm calling BS, but I will be happy if true. I'm interested in some $10 Iowa tickets. Very interested. Hell, do they have any Iowa tickets for $50?
Click to expand...
You cannot be serious. Or maybe you haven't been paying attention. Iowa is having a very good year, far exceeding expectations. Iowa State is not.
 
Lone Clone said:
You cannot be serious. Or maybe you haven't been paying attention. Iowa is having a very good year, far exceeding expectations. Iowa State is not.
Click to expand...
Serious about what? I have never seen Iowa tickets on Groupon, but if so, I would like to buy some. I think you may have misunderstood my post. I don't think there are Iowa tickets on Groupon, but a link could persuade me.
 
keosahawkeye said:
I think a wise move for ISU would be to drop down to FCS, build up a rep as a giant among midgets, and try it again when they've got the program rolling. Right now their program really isn't self sustaining in any measure.
Click to expand...
Won't happen, never mind how wise the choice may be.

Especially with the University of No Importance making noises like they want to follow Marshall and Buffalo to the Big-Boy playground.
ISU would never allow itself to be little brother to two FBS schools in-state
 
Iowa State looks like they have good attendance and fanbase - the reality is different. ISU is selling tickets - for $10 or to the half of the university that is from overseas these days, but do not show up to the games. In general it is really cheap to attend - in Iowa City you can't even ride the train for that.

Iowa State has a sizable amount of alumni in Des Moines and Ames that they have finally gotten to come to the games but they'll lose those people after this year - and they'll lose more that bought because of the new stadium.

It's gonna be hard to get those fans back after a few years of 2-10 or 0-12 in a row. Iowa State built a bunch of new facilities now without getting them paid with donations and have so much debt service they may not be able to make a coaching change without hemorrhaging money. ISU is a bad coaching hire from becoming insolvent.

Iowa fans look kinda bad right now for not filling up Kinnick but the schedule could not have been worse this yr in the context of filling it up - 3/4 rivalry games on the road, schedule was front loaded coming off a bad season - and we play the absolute crappiest schools in terms of fan support in the B1G - Illinois, Maryland, Purdue, Minnesota - none of those schools will even bring 1000 fans.
 
Birky said:
Serious about what? I have never seen Iowa tickets on Groupon, but if so, I would like to buy some. I think you may have misunderstood my post. I don't think there are Iowa tickets on Groupon, but a link could persuade me.
Click to expand...

It is Groupon's ticket exchange, Iowa has tickets for sale on there now just like ISU does. Neither are put there by the university.

https://www.groupon.com/deals/gl-iowa-hawkeyes-via-fanxchange
 
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