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Does the athletic department need to go scorched earth at this point?

People (Every skin color) complicate their paths by making poor life choices. There is nothing stopping anyone from achieving their respective goals but themselves. Im sorry, I don’t buy it.


I remember now past conversations with you on this topic. I still think your students have to notice the disdain you carry for them. Sad to see that hasn't changed.
 
Provide specific examples and sources or your assertions are meaningless. I can say you're a stromboli bot troll, and this has the exact same amount of authentication as your post, as neither one of us have provided any substantiation of our claims.

You obviously have been living in a cave for the last month. Columbus is just one example.
 
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So apologies, reparations or both. It will never end. I did what most were not willing to do or sacrifice. Especially in today’s environment and that includes all colors.

Never mentioned either reparations or an apology. Simply that you can set your ego down for a second and understand that the color of your skin is not a hurdle you have had to overcome. It's really that simple. Once you can do that, you'll understand why you look so silly.
 
Agreed. This will likely derail the discussion, but pretty much every other discussion has been derailed the same way so....
In all seriousness, I don't see how we ever get back to a point of unity in this country. Used to be where you could have a conversation and disagree respectfully, but in the end, we were all Americans first and that's what bound us; a "common goal", if you will.
Those days are LONG gone. A huge number of people (both sides) now have more disdain for their political adversaries than for actual enemies of the state.
I just don't know how we ever get back to any form of agreement, on anything.

I was taught whenever I pointed a finger, 3 were pointing back at me. We should all hold ourselves to the same standards we hold everyone else to.
 
I remember now past conversations with you on this topic. I still think your students have to notice the disdain you carry for them. Sad to see that hasn't changed.
Lulz. I have worked with the toughest of kids throughout my career. Gang members. Kids who have spent time in high level juvenile prison facilities. Kids who were physically and sexually abused. Drug addicts. I promise you won’t find one that doesn’t know I care deeply about them. You know nothing about me or what I do. GFY, Birch.

Just to add: I’ve been to court for my kids numerous times. I’ve attended funerals for my kids family members and friends, I’ve attended several of my kids funerals. I’ve sat with a kid in his family section at graduation because his didn’t show. Don’t tell me I harbor “disdain”.
 
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People (Every skin color) complicate their paths by making poor life choices. There is nothing stopping anyone from achieving their respective goals but themselves. Im sorry, I don’t buy it.

Lulz. I have worked with the toughest of kids throughout my career. Gang members. Kids who have spent time in high level juvenile prison facilities. Kids who were physically and sexually abused. Drug addicts. I promise you won’t find one that doesn’t know I care deeply about them. You know nothing about me or what I do. GFY, Birch.

I'm sure your sexually abused students will appreciate the only thing standing in their way to success is their own choices. You of all people should know about the complicated circumstances that come with each kid you work with. You of all people should know that not all of their choices are of their own doing. You of all people should understand how systemic racism in education and the judicial system still exists. You have a very funny way of showing that you care about students but can so flippantly say if someone doesn't succeed they only have themself to blame. I know what you've shared on here which is enough to know you look right down your nose at these kids. So GFY, Tom.
 
I'm sure your sexually abused students will appreciate the only thing standing in their way to success is their own choices. You of all people should know about the complicated circumstances that come with each kid you work with. You of all people should know that not all of their choices are of their own doing. You of all people should understand how systemic racism in education and the judicial system still exists. You have a very funny way of showing that you care about students but can so flippantly say if someone doesn't succeed they only have themself to blame. I know what you've shared on here which is enough to know you look right down your nose at these kids. So GFY, Tom.
Well I’d venture to guess I have a much higher success rate in this area than you. Getting kids to believe in themselves, understand their true value and no longer trapping themselves in a victim complex goes along way in changing circumstances. I’ll fondly remember how idiotic your assumptions are the next time I’m “looking down my nose” at these kids while shelling out a hundreds of dollars to buy them clothes, getting them something to eat, buying fishing liscenses, filling their cars up which gas, getting them jobs, etc.
 
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Well I’d venture to guess I have a much higher success rate in this area than you. Getting kids to believe in themselves, understand their true value and no longer trapping themselves in a victim complex goes along way in changing circumstances. I’ll fondly remember how idiotic your assumptions are the next time I’m “looking down my nose” at these kids while shelling out a hundreds of dollars to buy them clothes, getting them something to eat, buying fishing liscenses, filling their cars up which gas, getting them jobs, etc.

Deal. I'll be here to point out the looking down your nose next time you post it.
 
Amen.
Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers is an outstanding read and, IMO, relates to this very topic. It explores the hypothesis of factors playing into various peoples' successes. One of the central tenets of the book is essentially this: "Even though extremely successful people are [insert positive adjective such as brilliant, hard-working, etc], they commonly are the recipient of a good break in their lives which helps to launch their successes." He has a chapter on Bill Gates (who is undoubtedly brilliant) and how he had the fortune of being provided access to an early version of a computer at a local college. Without that access, who knows what would have happened. Does it detract from Gates' success? Absolutely not. But it recognizes that he was afforded a "good break" that others with similar skills/brain power did not.

Why do so many people take it personally when the term "white privilege" is used? My personal theory is because they somehow feel as if it minimizes their efforts in life. But, if you step back and be honest with yourself, the term is broad but accurate. Are their "privileges" associated with various status levels in our country? Anyone saying "no" is either hopelessly naive or lying. Easy example . . . Ivy League college admissions. You think that the playing field is level for all applicants? Did I, coming out of a rural high school in NE Iowa, have the same chance to get admitted into Harvard, Yale or Cornell as, say, the son/daughter of a graduate of one of those colleges? No way. That's a "privilege" that others enjoyed while I didn't. Did an African-American child who, through no fault of his/her own, attended inner city elementary, middle and high schools have the same opportunities to get admitted into a particular college? Hell no. I was "privileged" to attend solid (not elite) elementary schools, junior high and high school. That is, indeed, a "privilege" that I had over many inner city African-American students. Frankly, it was a "privilege" that I had over many students of all shapes, sizes and colors in the poorer parts of this country.

There is nothing demeaning about recognition of the fact that, while others had more "privilege" than I, I still had more "privilege" than others. Doesn't change the fact that I got good grades in HS, did well on ACT, admitted into Northwestern's School of Journalism (couldn't afford it), attended U of Iowa, graduated with two majors, did well on LSAT, admitted into Iowa's College of Law, passed the bar exam and have practiced law for 26+ years. Would my road have been less difficult if I wasn't the first attorney in my family or came from a family of wealth? Almost certainly. Was my road easier than those who didn't have some of my opportunities? Damn right.

I'll share a quick story. Every year, we go to the Iowa State Fair for one day and one day only. Last year, while getting a good beer at the Iowa Craft Beer tent, we couldn't find a place to sit so we stood just outside of the tent. A young African American teenager (likely 16, 17 or 18 years old) was working in an adjacent area and busting his ass carrying crates. Super hot day and, by the amount of sweat, you could tell that he working hard. He walked past a group of three white females (mid-20s?) who were smoking. I noticed that one female purposefully exhaled smoke in the area of the kid's face as he walked by. He didn't cough but he reacted to it. I figured it was an unfortunate mistake but noticed the female chuckle a bit after it happened. I then noticed the kid coming back to get another load of crates. This time, two of the females exhaled smoke in his face as he walked by. He waved the smoke away but kept looking straight ahead and walking. When he returned, the same two did it again. The kid kept walking and didn't say anything. All three women laughed. At this point, I took a couple of steps and asked "what the f--k was their problem?" Told them that they were scum and that if they didn't leave, I would report their conduct to the people running the tent and then find a cop. I got a couple of middle fingers thrown my way and told to mind my own "f--king business." I went to find someone in authority at the Craft Beer Tent but, by the time that I got back, they had left. They told my wife that I was an "f--king a--hole."

As I fumed about it afterwards, it dawned on me that there was zero (repeat that - zero) other African American adults among well over 100 people under the beer tent. It also dawned on me that these females didn't pull the "smoke stunt" on any other workers or patrons - who all happened to be white - that walked by. They did it to an African American teenager who happened to be working his ass off.

Little things like that . . . shit that people may not see or, perhaps, want to see. While I have no idea if that kid ever found out that the women were confronted, I'm confident that he probably understands "white privilege."

So, instead of taking offense and getting righteous when you hear the term "white privilege," stop for a second and be thankful for the opportunities presented to you and that perhaps you didn't have to fight through certain issues that others have had to fight through. And take a moment to try to understand what life may be like in others' shoes. I've never been pulled over by a police officer for failing to use a turn signal. But African-American friends of mine have. I've never had a store employee follow me around a store because that person thought that I may be a shoplifter but I have African-American friends that have. I've never had anyone cross the street as I approached them on the sidewalk to avoid me but I've have African-American friends that have had that happen to them.

I've never considered myself to be particularly "privileged" in the big scheme of life but I am not too proud to admit that I've had "privilege" that many in the African American community have not had.
........
Well said
 
Deal. I'll be here to point out the looking down your nose next time you post it.
Hell of it is Birch, I share commonalities with the kids I work with. Without divulging too much, my ACE score is right in line with theirs. For me to look down my nose at them, it would require me to think I’m better than them. I’m not because I’ve been there.
 
Hell of it is Birch, I share commonalities with the kids I work with. Without divulging too much, my ACE score is right in line with theirs. For me to look down my nose at them, it would require me to think I’m better than them. I’m not because I’ve been there.

It would be nice to see that you reflected more in your postings. Your previous posts on this subject, I think, showed rigid thinking and lots of anger and judgment. It's really not what an educator should be saying and certainly not someone working with at risk kids. I tried to find the old posts but couldn't.

I'm sorry about your ACEs and agree that you have a unique perspective you can bring your kids. I wonder if you were able to do better for yourself and your children and wonder why everyone can't do the same. Just a thought.

No matter what, I'm sorry that I told you to GFY. It was out of line and unnecessary and I'm sorry.
 
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This does not in any way dispell it's accuracy. If you ever get the energy to address it, let me know. I won't be going anywhere.
I have a black co-worker of Somalia ancestry. We work in an industry dominated by middle-aged white males and both live in a predominant white suburbia area. A couple years ago I asked him if he had encountered overt racism from our business clientele? His response was interesting...saying - no, that it’s generally been the opposite, in that, people have gone out of there way to try to make him feel at ease. So much so, that he sheepishly sometimes feels treated better than other white co-workers (for no apparent reason other than his skin color as people are sensitive to being labeled as a racist). I found his response interesting. I just wanted to include this anecdote here, altho realize it doesn’t fit in with your agenda/narrative.
 
I have a black co-worker of Somalia ancestry. We work in an industry dominated by middle-aged white males and both live in a predominant white suburbia area. A couple years ago I asked him if he had encountered overt racism from our business clientele? His response was interesting...saying - no, that it’s generally been the opposite, in that, people have gone out of there way to try to make him feel at ease. So much so, that he sheepishly sometimes feels treated better than other white co-workers (for no apparent reason other than his skin color as people are sensitive to being labeled as a racist). I found his response interesting. I just wanted to include this anecdote here, altho realize it doesn’t fit in with your agenda/narrative.
Was this the thread about white privilege? I enjoyed the story. I am also confused. Tell him I am happy for him!
 
You stated it was accurate. Who determined that? Now if its just your opinion say so.
I'm struggling to identify what you think didn't happen or is wrong. I make mistakes. I'm not above it. Be specific unless you're just trolling. Do you black people weren't stolen on slave ships? Do you believe there weren't efforts by slave owners to break apart families intentionally to make them have less choice in being allegiant to their owners?
 
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It would be nice to see that you reflected more in your postings. Your previous posts on this subject, I think, showed rigid thinking and lots of anger and judgment. It's really not what an educator should be saying and certainly not someone working with at risk kids. I tried to find the old posts but couldn't.

I'm sorry about your ACEs and agree that you have a unique perspective you can bring your kids. I wonder if you were able to do better for yourself and your children and wonder why everyone can't do the same. Just a thought.

No matter what, I'm sorry that I told you to GFY. It was out of line and unnecessary and I'm sorry.
Thank you, and I’m sorry too. I get a little touchy on this due to my past personal experience and the toll the emotional roller coaster of this line of work can take/has taken. Last year alone I lost 3 kids. 2 suicides and a drowning. The suicides were doing so damn well, they just couldn’t shake their demons. It was and is still heart breaking. The spring of ‘19 was an awful time for me professionally, and by extension, personally. I probably do come off rigid because I know there is better for kids, and want better for them than their self fulfilling prophecies tell them. It’s hard for them to see the vision of what their future is when it’s clouded by the smoke screen of the present. That’s why it’s important for me to teach them self reliance, goal setting and give them tools to be successful. It’s not easy, by any means, but success breeds success and when they see their peers experience small victories, and ultimately accomplish something once thought not possible, the smoke screen of the present begins to dissipate.

They know right off the bat that I’m one of them. They know I don’t ask them to do anything I’ve never done, and won’t sit there next to them and do it with them. They know I did it, and they know they can too.

There are so many post secondary opportunities for kids, many are extremely discounted or completely free. We put them in the drivers seat from the beginning and act as their GPS, if you will. They understand the only one who can stop them, is them.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I just know it’s possible, and one of the greatest feelings ever is seeing students you care about develop to the point of achieving it.
 
You stated it was accurate. Who determined that? Now if its just your opinion say so.
You act like there is no slave history. Lol. Do you think Africans we're saving up to get a ride to the USA, so they could pick cotton in chains for nothing?
 
Thank you, and I’m sorry too. I get a little touchy on this due to my past personal experience and the toll the emotional roller coaster of this line of work can take/has taken. Last year alone I lost 3 kids. 2 suicides and a drowning. The suicides were doing so damn well, they just couldn’t shake their demons. It was and is still heart breaking. The spring of ‘19 was an awful time for me professionally, and by extension, personally. I probably do come off rigid because I know there is better for kids, and want better for them than their self fulfilling prophecies tell them. It’s hard for them to see the vision of what their future is when it’s clouded by the smoke screen of the present. That’s why it’s important for me to teach them self reliance, goal setting and give them tools to be successful. It’s not easy, by any means, but success breeds success and when they see their peers experience small victories, and ultimately accomplish something once thought not possible, the smoke screen of the present begins to dissipate.

They know right off the bat that I’m one of them. They know I don’t ask them to do anything I’ve never done, and won’t sit there next to them and do it with them. They know I did it, and they know they can too.

There are so many post secondary opportunities for kids, many are extremely discounted or completely free. We put them in the drivers seat from the beginning and act as their GPS, if you will. They understand the only one who can stop them, is them.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I just know it’s possible, and one of the greatest feelings ever is seeing students you care about develop to the point of achieving it.
Keep up the great and important work. It's easy to work with "great" kids. You are working with great kids in challenging situations. Thank you!
 
Was this the thread about white privilege? I enjoyed the story. I am also confused. Tell him I am happy for him!
Well, this thread has kind of run the gamet of topics relating to racism / perceived racism / white “privilege” etc. So, yes my comments shouldn’t be “confusing” to you, other than they may not support your opinions.
 
Still waiting for you to point one out. Your allusion to one keeps repeating, but you never cite one. Right now, I am fully willing to concede if shown an error. But, I am done dancing with you on this. If you had something, you'd have shared it.

For the record, I am not your enemy just because the facts I give aren't your cup of tea.


Well, this thread has kind of run the gamet of topics relating to racism / perceived racism / white “privilege” etc. So, yes my comments shouldn’t be “confusing” to you, other than they may not support your opinions.
 
Still waiting for you to point one out. Your allusion to one keeps repeating, but you never cite one. Right now, I am fully willing to concede if shown an error. But, I am done dancing with you on this. If you had something, you'd have shared it.

For the record, I am not your enemy just because the facts I give aren't your cup of tea.
Hey, I apologize. Too much division being worked. I just want all people to be free and valued because I think that's what is best for all. I can't believe I let myself get that worked up about this whether I was right or wrong. Have a great day. May be time for me to stop posting for a while. Have a good day every one.
 
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This whole thing has shown me that big business wants division. If poor people coalesced that would be dangerous to the upper class. Sell division reap the benefits, basic idea

The wealthy have kept the rest of us pitted against each other all of my lifetime; republican vs democrat , union vs non-union , race vs race . As long as we're fighting amongst each other, we're not fighting to exspose the real unfairness, the wealth class system.
 
Thank you, and I’m sorry too. I get a little touchy on this due to my past personal experience and the toll the emotional roller coaster of this line of work can take/has taken. Last year alone I lost 3 kids. 2 suicides and a drowning. The suicides were doing so damn well, they just couldn’t shake their demons. It was and is still heart breaking. The spring of ‘19 was an awful time for me professionally, and by extension, personally. I probably do come off rigid because I know there is better for kids, and want better for them than their self fulfilling prophecies tell them. It’s hard for them to see the vision of what their future is when it’s clouded by the smoke screen of the present. That’s why it’s important for me to teach them self reliance, goal setting and give them tools to be successful. It’s not easy, by any means, but success breeds success and when they see their peers experience small victories, and ultimately accomplish something once thought not possible, the smoke screen of the present begins to dissipate.

They know right off the bat that I’m one of them. They know I don’t ask them to do anything I’ve never done, and won’t sit there next to them and do it with them. They know I did it, and they know they can too.

There are so many post secondary opportunities for kids, many are extremely discounted or completely free. We put them in the drivers seat from the beginning and act as their GPS, if you will. They understand the only one who can stop them, is them.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I just know it’s possible, and one of the greatest feelings ever is seeing students you care about develop to the point of achieving it.

I'm thankful for your long post. I'm in the same line of work but a different capacity. We may have even worked with some of the same kids and not known it. It is really tough but also really rewarding. I get touchy when I read people saying if the kids just worked harder or thinking they are bad kids or victims. We know that these are great kids with great potential. Now I'll look for your posts to remind you to keep fighting for these kids and to give yourself some grace along the way.
 
The wealthy have kept the rest of us pitted against each other all of my lifetime; republican vs democrat , union vs non-union , race vs race . As long as we're fighting amongst each other, we're not fighting to exspose the real unfairness, the wealth class system.
America is not unfair . I am 100% glad when one becomes wealthy because it means we all may become wealthy
 
Still waiting for you to point one out. Your allusion to one keeps repeating, but you never cite one. Right now, I am fully willing to concede if shown an error. But, I am done dancing with you on this. If you had something, you'd have shared it.

For the record, I am not your enemy just because the facts I give aren't your cup of tea.
Not sure what “facts” you have given, other than it’s a good idea to quit posting for a while.
 
Never mentioned either reparations or an apology. Simply that you can set your ego down for a second and understand that the color of your skin is not a hurdle you have had to overcome. It's really that simple. Once you can do that, you'll understand why you look so silly.
My ego? Btw what color of skin do I have?
 
Amen.
Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers is an outstanding read and, IMO, relates to this very topic. It explores the hypothesis of factors playing into various peoples' successes. One of the central tenets of the book is essentially this: "Even though extremely successful people are [insert positive adjective such as brilliant, hard-working, etc], they commonly are the recipient of a good break in their lives which helps to launch their successes." He has a chapter on Bill Gates (who is undoubtedly brilliant) and how he had the fortune of being provided access to an early version of a computer at a local college. Without that access, who knows what would have happened. Does it detract from Gates' success? Absolutely not. But it recognizes that he was afforded a "good break" that others with similar skills/brain power did not.

Why do so many people take it personally when the term "white privilege" is used? My personal theory is because they somehow feel as if it minimizes their efforts in life. But, if you step back and be honest with yourself, the term is broad but accurate. Are their "privileges" associated with various status levels in our country? Anyone saying "no" is either hopelessly naive or lying. Easy example . . . Ivy League college admissions. You think that the playing field is level for all applicants? Did I, coming out of a rural high school in NE Iowa, have the same chance to get admitted into Harvard, Yale or Cornell as, say, the son/daughter of a graduate of one of those colleges? No way. That's a "privilege" that others enjoyed while I didn't. Did an African-American child who, through no fault of his/her own, attended inner city elementary, middle and high schools have the same opportunities to get admitted into a particular college? Hell no. I was "privileged" to attend solid (not elite) elementary schools, junior high and high school. That is, indeed, a "privilege" that I had over many inner city African-American students. Frankly, it was a "privilege" that I had over many students of all shapes, sizes and colors in the poorer parts of this country.

There is nothing demeaning about recognition of the fact that, while others had more "privilege" than I, I still had more "privilege" than others. Doesn't change the fact that I got good grades in HS, did well on ACT, admitted into Northwestern's School of Journalism (couldn't afford it), attended U of Iowa, graduated with two majors, did well on LSAT, admitted into Iowa's College of Law, passed the bar exam and have practiced law for 26+ years. Would my road have been less difficult if I wasn't the first attorney in my family or came from a family of wealth? Almost certainly. Was my road easier than those who didn't have some of my opportunities? Damn right.

I'll share a quick story. Every year, we go to the Iowa State Fair for one day and one day only. Last year, while getting a good beer at the Iowa Craft Beer tent, we couldn't find a place to sit so we stood just outside of the tent. A young African American teenager (likely 16, 17 or 18 years old) was working in an adjacent area and busting his ass carrying crates. Super hot day and, by the amount of sweat, you could tell that he working hard. He walked past a group of three white females (mid-20s?) who were smoking. I noticed that one female purposefully exhaled smoke in the area of the kid's face as he walked by. He didn't cough but he reacted to it. I figured it was an unfortunate mistake but noticed the female chuckle a bit after it happened. I then noticed the kid coming back to get another load of crates. This time, two of the females exhaled smoke in his face as he walked by. He waved the smoke away but kept looking straight ahead and walking. When he returned, the same two did it again. The kid kept walking and didn't say anything. All three women laughed. At this point, I took a couple of steps and asked "what the f--k was their problem?" Told them that they were scum and that if they didn't leave, I would report their conduct to the people running the tent and then find a cop. I got a couple of middle fingers thrown my way and told to mind my own "f--king business." I went to find someone in authority at the Craft Beer Tent but, by the time that I got back, they had left. They told my wife that I was an "f--king a--hole."

As I fumed about it afterwards, it dawned on me that there was zero (repeat that - zero) other African American adults among well over 100 people under the beer tent. It also dawned on me that these females didn't pull the "smoke stunt" on any other workers or patrons - who all happened to be white - that walked by. They did it to an African American teenager who happened to be working his ass off.

Little things like that . . . shit that people may not see or, perhaps, want to see. While I have no idea if that kid ever found out that the women were confronted, I'm confident that he probably understands "white privilege."

So, instead of taking offense and getting righteous when you hear the term "white privilege," stop for a second and be thankful for the opportunities presented to you and that perhaps you didn't have to fight through certain issues that others have had to fight through. And take a moment to try to understand what life may be like in others' shoes. I've never been pulled over by a police officer for failing to use a turn signal. But African-American friends of mine have. I've never had a store employee follow me around a store because that person thought that I may be a shoplifter but I have African-American friends that have. I've never had anyone cross the street as I approached them on the sidewalk to avoid me but I've have African-American friends that have had that happen to them.

I've never considered myself to be particularly "privileged" in the big scheme of life but I am not too proud to admit that I've had "privilege" that many in the African American community have not had.
Why do people ONLY mention white privilege when talking about blacks, b just call it non black privilege. And why do people feel the need to say African American when they use the term white in the same sentence? If we're working towards treating everyone equally that is a poor way to go about it.

Do you think white people don't get bothered by anyone when they're in a place that is full of all black people? You think there wouldn't be some jerk telling them to get lost?

Oh and why are you comparing yourself to an inner city black kid instead if comparing an inner city white kid....they're in the same boat.
 
I'm sure your sexually abused students will appreciate the only thing standing in their way to success is their own choices. You of all people should know about the complicated circumstances that come with each kid you work with. You of all people should know that not all of their choices are of their own doing. You of all people should understand how systemic racism in education and the judicial system still exists. You have a very funny way of showing that you care about students but can so flippantly say if someone doesn't succeed they only have themself to blame. I know what you've shared on here which is enough to know you look right down your nose at these kids. So GFY, Tom.
That depends if they have the white privilege, then there is no excuse!!

Btw if the judicial system is so unfair to blacks why are guys like Floyd even out of jail when they're violent criminals?
 
That depends if they have the white privilege, then there is no excuse!!

Btw if the judicial system is so unfair to blacks why are guys like Floyd even out of jail when they're violent criminals?

You are clearly interested in having an intelligent conversation.
 
because the narrative is that KF is basically the nfl. he chooses who he black balls in the nfl. he chooses who he pumps up to the nfl and who he labels as a trouble maker. this is the allegation

there’s that narrative and then there’s the truth.
 
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