Effort

[eyesofhawk]

This is really hard, because I have no interest in multiplying negativity around Fran and the Iowa basketball program.

But calling out the defensive and rebounding effort of the young men on this team HAS TO STOP.

Yes, they are getting paid. But they are also still pretty much kids. And they put themselves on the line to represent the people of this state.

I can see where people might want to question the effort of the players. But there are a few clear responses that.

Yes, effort is something that a player is responsible for bringing to the table on his own. But it is also a skill, that must be taught and developed.

For the norm to be everyone giving maximum effort at all times, it has to be a product of coaching. Practices have to be challenging in a way that lifts the team and its individuals to a to a standard level of effort that they didn't know they had. Players have to be pushed and held accountable.

Why question the effort of these players when clearly the defense at Iowa has never been good under Fran? It is an uneducated and unfair overreaction. Getting blown out has not been uncommon in past seasons. It happens, when you play the style Iowa plays.

Yes, there were some looks of disinterest at USC. They were getting blown out. And kids don't always respond very well to being in LA (or anywhere) for six days. It is NOT easy, and I don't think disinterest in one game is worth marking a narrative out of.

Other than that, there's only one difference between this season and any other that would cause effort to be questioned. And that is the fact that there are rarely any natural rebounders on the floor, which has made rebounding worse, and allowed for it to be misinterpreted as an effort thing.

But rebounding has almost always been a weakness under Fran. There is a very easy explanation for that, that it seems only a couple of people on this board understand. Two things fans MUST understand:
1. DEFENSIVE REBOUNDING IS PRIMARILY ACHIEVED THROUGH POSITIONING.
2. AS A DEFENSE GETS BROKEN DOWN, REBOUNDING POSITION GETS COMPROMISED.
Connect the dots.

It should also be mentioned that it seems Fran is over applying a rebounding strategy (hit and get) that isn't appropriate for all rebounding situations, and IMO, is never appropriate for the shorter/less athletic team.

But to call out the effort of these kids is simply wrong. And really difficult to understand, considering we've been seeing the same identity from Iowa teams for 15 years. They still sprint the floor on offense. They still cut hard, screen hard, duck in and post up hard. They still get downhill and get to the foul line. All of these things have been coached into them. News flash, when it comes to the defensive end of the floor

 

[texas twister]

I agree with you. It is all on Fran

 

[TampaHawkfan]

I agree with you. It is all on Fran

Agreed. Different rosters, same results. The one constant is the coaching staff.

One thing: They are not kids. They are young men.

 

[hahkize]

This is really hard, because I have no interest in multiplying negativity around Fran and the Iowa basketball program.

But calling out the defensive and rebounding effort of the young men on this team HAS TO STOP.

Yes, they are getting paid. But they are also still pretty much kids. And they put themselves on the line to represent the people of this state.

I can see where people might want to question the effort of the players. But there are a few clear responses that.

Yes, effort is something that a player is responsible for bringing to the table on his own. But it is also a skill, that must be taught and developed.

For the norm to be everyone giving maximum effort at all times, it has to be a product of coaching. Practices have to be challenging in a way that lifts the team and its individuals to a to a standard level of effort that they didn't know they had. Players have to be pushed and held accountable.

Why question the effort of these players when clearly the defense at Iowa has never been good under Fran? It is an uneducated and unfair overreaction. Getting blown out has not been uncommon in past seasons. It happens, when you play the style Iowa plays.

Yes, there were some looks of disinterest at USC. They were getting blown out. And kids don't always respond very well to being in LA (or anywhere) for six days. It is NOT easy, and I don't think disinterest in one game is worth marking a narrative out of.

Other than that, there's only one difference between this season and any other that would cause effort to be questioned. And that is the fact that there are rarely any natural rebounders on the floor, which has made rebounding worse, and allowed for it to be misinterpreted as an effort thing.

But rebounding has almost always been a weakness under Fran. There is a very easy explanation for that, that it seems only a couple of people on this board understand. Two things fans MUST understand:
1. DEFENSIVE REBOUNDING IS PRIMARILY ACHIEVED THROUGH POSITIONING.
2. AS A DEFENSE GETS BROKEN DOWN, REBOUNDING POSITION GETS COMPROMISED.
Connect the dots.

It should also be mentioned that it seems Fran is over applying a rebounding strategy (hit and get) that isn't appropriate for all rebounding situations, and IMO, is never appropriate for the shorter/less athletic team.

But to call out the effort of these kids is simply wrong. And really difficult to understand, considering we've been seeing the same identity from Iowa teams for 15 years. They still sprint the floor on offense. They still cut hard, screen hard, duck in and post up hard. They still get downhill and get to the foul line. All of these things have been coached into them. News flash, when it comes to the defensive end of the floor

Well said. Maybe Fran / staff should read these two works by this former Iowa basketball coach

 

[HawkLogic]

They look confused at times on defense and bewildered when a fellow teammate gets beat bad. Nearly all of them look afraid of the more muscular/physical imposing players that surround them. Sometimes those stronger opponents are ripping the ball out of their clutches. If there is a scrum under the basket, usually the opponent gets the ball. Often the Hawkeyes are flat footed looking up to the sky at guys that are taller and jump higher or left behind by quicker players that beat them to the loose ball. I don't doubt they want to play hard and want to win. I don't think the lineups being put out on the court and the coaching principles/system enable them to play up to their potential. There really is only a single individual that is responsible for the final product.

 

[ozzie8]

OP agreed. It’s always been on him for the way Iowa defends and rebounds. That’s the culture he’s allowed

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

Yes, effort is something that a player is responsible for bringing to the table on his own.

And if they aren't bringing it, I for one will call them out for it.

As you also stated, they are now paid minor-leaguers, they wanted it now they will reap it...both the good and the bad. If they can't handle some anonymous criticism on a message board or on social media, then they should let someone else have their roster spot.

 

[eyesofhawk]

And if they aren't bringing it, I for one will call them out for it.

As you also stated, they are now paid minor-leaguers, they wanted it now they will reap it...both the good and the bad. If they can't handle some anonymous criticism on a message board or on social media, then they should let someone else have their roster spot.

And the criticism the players have received for effort has not been warranted.

Again, all of the effort things on offense are happening because they have been coached into the players

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

And the criticism the players have received for effort has not been warranted.

Again, all of the effort things on offense are happening because they have been coached into the players

Fran will get the lion's share of criticism...as he should.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Fran will get the lion's share of criticism...as he should.

That's another story.

But getting it off the players will be welcomed and appropriate

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Stop it. They are making more money than almost everyone on this board.
I no longer care about their feelings. They are no longer college players. They are highly compensated athletes over the age of 18.
Grow up. We are talking about sports not their character.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

Stop it. They are making more money than almost everyone on this board.
I no longer care about their feelings. They are no longer college players. They are highly compensated athletes over the age of 18.
Grow up. We are talking about sports not their character.

Agreed, cant have your cake and eat it too. Can’t have the whole NIL wanting to get paid then cry we are just called kids with any criticism. Knew plenty of people 19-22 doing some type of job while in school, military or enter the work force. Guess what if you didn’t do your job well their is criticism and worse consequences then criticism on a message board. They are getting full ride scholarships. I know some academic scholarships like one of my roommates had and if he didn’t meet certain expectations guess what he lost it.

Welcome to the real world for the players and if they don’t like criticism with social media or stuff then don’t get it on it.

 

[LukaDuka]

OP, should we just hand out the participation trophies now?

F That! Effort isn't something that should need to be coached. Many here bitch about red faced angry Fran, but now he's too mellow and not coaching the players correctly? The players need to be held accountable for effort and pride. I'm not seeing enough of it, especially on the road and never on the defensive rebounding side. Rebounding needs to be a team effort. The players need to all put in the EFFORT to rebound.

Dumbest thread I've seen yet. Don't blame the players for lack of effort??? For F's sake. They're getting schollies and getting paid well. They damn well better be putting in the F'ing effort! How are you reviewed for your work? Does your boss at work tell you "hey you're not really that good at your job I need to see more effort from you, that's my fault"? If you're lazy and not doing your job just walking around aimlessly and not contributing to the workload, do you automatically get a raise every year? Or get a glowing review from your boss? "Hey, thanks for showing up this week. Do you think you could put in a little more effort next week. Maybe be a better teammate"?

Dumbasses, put in the EFFORT! Or am I misinterpreting something here??? yes, Fran needs to be better at coaching d & rebounding. But these "kids" have been playing the game for 10+ years.

 

[ICWestfan]

TL;DR. Also, 12-6.

 

[Pawkhawk1]

Yeah, sorry eyesofhawk. I like your posts and positive attitude. Actually, I LOVE your positive posts and defending the football coaches. But, tending to the heart strings of the players no longer apply with all the extra benefits they get ON TOP OF the free ride scholarship. Unreal and honestly not that deserving. The full free ride, to me, is still such an amazing gift just for playing the GAME that they love and would play for free.

They're professionals now. People can say whatever they want, though I will not always agree with the tone they say it with

 

[intrepodor]

This is really hard, because I have no interest in multiplying negativity around Fran and the Iowa basketball program.

But calling out the defensive and rebounding effort of the young men on this team HAS TO STOP.

Yes, they are getting paid. But they are also still pretty much kids. And they put themselves on the line to represent the people of this state.

I can see where people might want to question the effort of the players. But there are a few clear responses that.

Yes, effort is something that a player is responsible for bringing to the table on his own. But it is also a skill, that must be taught and developed.

For the norm to be everyone giving maximum effort at all times, it has to be a product of coaching. Practices have to be challenging in a way that lifts the team and its individuals to a to a standard level of effort that they didn't know they had. Players have to be pushed and held accountable.

Why question the effort of these players when clearly the defense at Iowa has never been good under Fran? It is an uneducated and unfair overreaction. Getting blown out has not been uncommon in past seasons. It happens, when you play the style Iowa plays.

Yes, there were some looks of disinterest at USC. They were getting blown out. And kids don't always respond very well to being in LA (or anywhere) for six days. It is NOT easy, and I don't think disinterest in one game is worth marking a narrative out of.

Other than that, there's only one difference between this season and any other that would cause effort to be questioned. And that is the fact that there are rarely any natural rebounders on the floor, which has made rebounding worse, and allowed for it to be misinterpreted as an effort thing.

But rebounding has almost always been a weakness under Fran. There is a very easy explanation for that, that it seems only a couple of people on this board understand. Two things fans MUST understand:
1. DEFENSIVE REBOUNDING IS PRIMARILY ACHIEVED THROUGH POSITIONING.
2. AS A DEFENSE GETS BROKEN DOWN, REBOUNDING POSITION GETS COMPROMISED.
Connect the dots.

It should also be mentioned that it seems Fran is over applying a rebounding strategy (hit and get) that isn't appropriate for all rebounding situations, and IMO, is never appropriate for the shorter/less athletic team.

But to call out the effort of these kids is simply wrong. And really difficult to understand, considering we've been seeing the same identity from Iowa teams for 15 years. They still sprint the floor on offense. They still cut hard, screen hard, duck in and post up hard. They still get downhill and get to the foul line. All of these things have been coached into them. News flash, when it comes to the defensive end of the floor

Davis ran a fast style of offense also but his teams could rebound because he taught rebounding.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Stop it. They are making more money than almost everyone on this board.
I no longer care about their feelings. They are no longer college players. They are highly compensated athletes over the age of 18.
Grow up. We are talking about sports not their character.

Do you care about being accurate your criticism?

To come on here and broadcast your criticisms to the public is a pretty drastic action. Is it not important to you for your criticisms to at least be directed accurately?

 

[eyesofhawk]

Stop it. They are making more money than almost everyone on this board.
I no longer care about their feelings. They are no longer college players. They are highly compensated athletes over the age of 18.
Grow up. We are talking about sports not their character.

Agreed, cant have your cake and eat it too. Can’t have the whole NIL wanting to get paid then cry we are just called kids with any criticism. Knew plenty of people 19-22 doing some type of job while in school, military or enter the work force. Guess what if you didn’t do your job well their is criticism and worse consequences then criticism on a message board. They are getting full ride scholarships. I know some academic scholarships like one of my roommates had and if he didn’t meet certain expectations guess what he lost it.

Welcome to the real world for the players and if they don’t like criticism with social media or stuff then don’t get it on it.

Yeah, sorry eyesofhawk. I like your posts and positive attitude. Actually, I LOVE your positive posts and defending the football coaches. But, tending to the heart strings of the players no longer apply with all the extra benefits they get ON TOP OF the free ride scholarship. Unreal and honestly not that deserving. The full free ride, to me, is still such an amazing gift just for playing the GAME that they love and would play for free.

They're professionals now. People can say whatever they want, though I will not always agree with the tone they say it with

I don't see any purpose for the negative posts other than for the poster to feel better after a vent. But that's another story.

The point is with this particular complaint, the players aren't who should be blamed

 

[iahawkeyes17]

I don't see any purpose for the negative posts other than for the poster to feel better after a vent. But that's another story.

The point is with this particular complaint, the players aren't who should be blamed

Well it is a message board where one can state their opinion good or bad. This isn’t pre school where we need to just dish out positive comments and worry about hurting someone’s feelings.

These guys are paid college athletes so if they are not playing defense, rebounding, shooting, hustling as well as they should then yes they deserve every bit criticism. Consider Iowa has given up 115, 99 and 94 points last 3 road games I feel like any criticism of their defense is warranted considering they are the ones out on the floor attempting to play it.

 

[eyesofhawk]

OP, should we just hand out the participation trophies now?

F That! Effort isn't something that should need to be coached. Many here bitch about red faced angry Fran, but now he's too mellow and not coaching the players correctly? The players need to be held accountable for effort and pride. I'm not seeing enough of it, especially on the road and never on the defensive rebounding side. Rebounding needs to be a team effort. The players need to all put in the EFFORT to rebound.

Dumbest thread I've seen yet. Don't blame the players for lack of effort??? For F's sake. They're getting schollies and getting paid well. They damn well better be putting in the F'ing effort! How are you reviewed for your work? Does your boss at work tell you "hey you're not really that good at your job I need to see more effort from you, that's my fault"? If you're lazy and not doing your job just walking around aimlessly and not contributing to the workload, do you automatically get a raise every year? Or get a glowing review from your boss? "Hey, thanks for showing up this week. Do you think you could put in a little more effort next week. Maybe be a better teammate"?

Dumbasses, put in the EFFORT! Or am I misinterpreting something here??? yes, Fran needs to be better at coaching d & rebounding. But these "kids" have been playing the game for 10+ years.

Your concerns about player effort have already been answered in this thread

 

[LukaDuka]

Your concerns about player effort have already been answered in this thread

Yeah and it seems you don't believe it's the player fault? Or did I miss your intent?

 

[Beattheohiostate]

Various Iowa players over Fran's tenure have talked fairly candidly about lack of focus, lack of effort, lack of intensity and the need to work harder at defense and rebounding. It's no surprise that players are aware of their shortcomings and are even willing to admit them in public. What is no longer surprising is that the names change, but the results are pretty much the same. Iowa does not play consistent defense or take any significant pride in rebounding. And both of those things are among the easiest things to do in all of sports. Many would say that defense and rebounding are at least 80 percent effort. Just try hard! Move your freakin' feet and work at it. Get position. Block out. Go for the rebound like your life depends on it. When you're on the floor, nothing else in the world matters but working as hard as hell to win. If that's not your attitude, then you should join the band or the cheerleaders or stay home and study. Effort is nonnegotiable. Effort requires zero talent. Effort and energy should be apparent every game, regardless of opponent or outcome.

 

[LukaDuka]

Various Iowa players over Fran's tenure have talked fairly candidly about lack of focus, lack of effort, lack of intensity and the need to work harder at defense and rebounding. It's no surprise that players are aware of their shortcomings and are even willing to admit them in public. What is no longer surprising is that the names change, but the results are pretty much the same. Iowa does not play consistent defense or take any significant pride in rebounding. And both of those things are among the easiest things to do in all of sports. Many would say that defense and rebounding are at least 80 percent effort. Just try hard! Move your freakin' feet and work at it. Get position. Block out. Go for the rebound like your life depends on it. When you're on the floor, nothing else in the world matters but working as hard as hell to win. If that's not your attitude, then you should join the band or the cheerleaders or stay home and study. Effort is nonnegotiable. Effort requires zero talent. Effort and energy should be apparent every game, regardless of opponent or outcome.

Amen! Preach, drop that mic!

 

[eyesofhawk]

Well it is a message board where one can state their opinion good or bad. This isn’t pre school where we need to just dish out positive comments and worry about hurting someone’s feelings.

These guys are paid college athletes so if they are not playing defense, rebounding, shooting, hustling as well as they should then yes they deserve every bit criticism. Consider Iowa has given up 115, 99 and 94 points last 3 road games I feel like any criticism of their defense is warranted considering they are the ones out on the floor attempting to play it.

They are playing defense to the best they've been taught. They are rebounding to the level their poor positioning from poor defense has put them in. They are hustling.

Since you guys seem to be hung up on fighting for your right to criticize like you're defending your home from invasion, I simply ask what purpose it serves. Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I can tell you why it isn't the right thing to do, and it doesn't have to do with hurting anyone's feelings

 

[Beattheohiostate]

They are playing defense to the best they've been taught. They are rebounding to the level their poor positioning from poor defense has put them in. They are hustling.

Since you guys seem to be hung up on fighting for your right to criticize like you're defending your home from invasion, I simply ask what purpose it serves. Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I can tell you why it isn't the right thing to do, and it doesn't have to do with hurting anyone's feelings

I guess I've been watching different games than you have. Hell, Brock Harding today, in black and white pixels, said Iowa wasn't playing hard out West, and that he and Payton Sandfort should have set a better example of playing hard on defense and on the boards. You could look it up. But you may not want to, because it won't fit your preconceived narrative.

BTW: Rebounding and defense in basketball are two of the easiest "skills" in sports. Teaching those skills is more about effort than anything else. Of course, teaching someone to block out isn't taught until 4th grade, and moving your feet and staying in front of your guy and going over or under a screen, well, now you're talking PhD stuff . . .

 

[iahawkeyes17]

They are playing defense to the best they've been taught. They are rebounding to the level their poor positioning from poor defense has put them in. They are hustling.

Since you guys seem to be hung up on fighting for your right to criticize like you're defending your home from invasion, I simply ask what purpose it serves. Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I can tell you why it isn't the right thing to do, and it doesn't have to do with hurting anyone's feelings

Fran isn’t immune to some blame but yet you blame poor rebounding due to poor positioning from poor defense. Can blame zone on staff but on man they are the ones out there and that is on them the guys on the floor who put them in that bad spot. And from being at the IU game and watching LA games no they are not doing either as well as they could be. Huge difference on how they played, rotated and crashed the boards against a good size IU team.

Ask what my purpose is. Well last time I checked that’s kind of the point of a message board. To discuss several aspects of the team and have the freedom to state your own OPINION. Mine obviously isn’t in line with yours but on flip side if all you want to post are positive Iowa takes (which I do as well) go nuts I’m not telling you not. But don’t stand on your soap box and lecture other people on if they post something critical or how they want to post in general.

 

[LukaDuka]

Fran isn’t immune to some blame but yet you blame poor rebounding due to poor positioning from poor defense. Can blame zone on staff but on man they are the ones out there and that is on them the guys on the floor who put them in that bad spot. And from being at the IU game and watching LA games no they are not doing either as well as they could be. Huge difference on how they played, rotated and crashed the boards against a good size IU team.

Ask what my purpose is. Well last time I checked that’s kind of the point of a message board. To discuss several aspects of the team and have the freedom to state your own OPINION. Mine obviously isn’t in line with yours but on flip side if all you want to post are positive Iowa takes (which I do as well) go nuts I’m not telling you not. But don’t stand on your soap box and lecture other people on if they post something critical or how they want to post in general.

Exactly this! It's constructive criticism and pointing out the obvious flaws. Sorry if anyone on here is thin skinned, but players need to step up or get portal'ed IMO. Plenty of other fish in the sea!

 

[BHoppy]

I don't see any purpose for the negative posts other than for the poster to feel better after a vent. But that's another story.

The point is with this particular complaint, the players aren't who should be blamed

Who should be blamed? I have played and coached. There are fundamentals to rebounding and call it an art if you want. But part of the game, especially defense and rebounding, effort as important as ever. You are never going to see Payton S. lack effort in his shot or trying to get open. Or any shooter really.
Some really good books on rebounding, John Wooden and George Raveling for a couple.
In rebounding simply drills to help you know how to step through to screen out, but there is also timing, reading a shot, and positioning is important.
I never really get into bashing players, but you can read effort on the court.

Unfortunately, the players door has opened up for criticism, as the cash flow has opened to them.

The only good thing out of NIL is more under classmen are staying in college instead of entering the NFL draft because they can make more. Two years ago it was around 140 players and last year cut in half to around 70.

 

[ISUBryce]

And the criticism the players have received for effort has not been warranted.

Again, all of the effort things on offense are happening because they have been coached into the players

I mean this sincerely, of course it's warranted. The effort, especially by guys like the older Sandfort, at times has been horrible and he's older than many NBA players and I'd be surprised if he wasn't making more money than most people on this board.

It's not 1983 anymore.

 

[ISUBryce]

I don't see any purpose for the negative posts other than for the poster to feel better after a vent. But that's another story.

The point is with this particular complaint, the players aren't who should be blamed

What's the point of any post on a message board?

 

[eyesofhawk]

Yeah and it seems you don't believe it's the player fault? Or did I miss your intent?

I don't see any reason to blame the players when they are clearly a product of their coaching.

This team has the same defensive deficiencies as nearly every other team over the last 14 years.

Again, if the players are dogging it, are checked out, or not giving effort, then why are the effort playing still being made on the offensive end of the floor?

Especially in college sports, programs end up taking on the personality of their coach.

Are the players to credit for on offense intuitively playing with perfect spacing, angles, player and ball movement, decision making, and out of bounds plays? No. That is a product of their coaching. They have been developed in a way that that those concepts have been installed as part of their standard play

 

[LukaDuka]

I don't see any reason to blame the players when they are clearly a product of their coaching.

This team has the same defensive deficiencies as nearly every other team over the last 14 years.

Again, if the players are dogging it, are checked out, or not giving effort, then why are the effort playing still being made on the offensive end of the floor?

Especially in college sports, programs end up taking on the personality of their coach.

Are the players to credit for on offense intuitively playing with perfect spacing, angles, player and ball movement, decision making, and out of bounds plays? No. That is a product of their coaching. They have been developed in a way that that those concepts have been installed as part of their standard play

I agree somewhat, but the players need to have the "want to". Brock & Owen both admitted to the press the effort hasn't been there on the defensive end. Fran needs to sub out 5 at a time when the guys on the floor aren't playing smart team defense. Send a message. But I think he's checked out.

 

[eyesofhawk]

I guess I've been watching different games than you have. Hell, Brock Harding today, in black and white pixels, said Iowa wasn't playing hard out West, and that he and Payton Sandfort should have set a better example of playing hard on defense and on the boards. You could look it up. But you may not want to, because it won't fit your preconceived narrative.

BTW: Rebounding and defense in basketball are two of the easiest "skills" in sports. Teaching those skills is more about effort than anything else. Of course, teaching someone to block out isn't taught until 4th grade, and moving your feet and staying in front of your guy and going over or under a screen, well, now you're talking PhD stuff . . .

Players have said the same thing in every one of the other 14 seasons. Guess why?

They just gave up over 100 points. Of course they're going to say they have to play harder on defense. Fran probably just told them the same thing in the locker room. But he doesn't give them the fundamentals to play good team defense regardless of how hard they're playing. And he doesn't develop his teams in a way that builds maximum effort into their play.

For example, a player might be uncertain on his closeout responsibilities on a certain skip pass. He sits in no man's land, momentarily paralyzed, and the offense catches, shoots, and drains a wide open 3. What could be seen as a lazy closeout could have easily been prevented by having coached up the situation to a level of high execution. Some of Frans defensive principles seem to need simplification. For example, the straightforwardness of the rules on Phil Parker's defense allow his players to process and play fast.

Another example would be a guy a actually giving too much effort on a closeout. He takes away the 3, but his guy drives around him and creates a layup. Because containment angles and keeping the ball in front of you don't get enough emphasis at Iowa, the player's effort didn't have the proper molding to have kept the ball in front of him, and the result looked like he was too lazy to have defended the drive.

If defense and rebounding is "mostly about the teaching of effort," which they aren't, then that effort isn't being taught.

Again, defensive rebounding is more about positioning than it is effort.

And although moving your feet to keep the ball in front of you may not be that complicated, defense at the college level is a team thing. All five players must be executing the same concepts at all times. There's nothing simple about that. Why do you think so many programs have adopted an all defense/all the time culture? Because that's what it takes to be good at team defense, which includes building higher and more consistent levels of effort into your team

 

[eyesofhawk]

Fran isn’t immune to some blame but yet you blame poor rebounding due to poor positioning from poor defense. Can blame zone on staff but on man they are the ones out there and that is on them the guys on the floor who put them in that bad spot. And from being at the IU game and watching LA games no they are not doing either as well as they could be. Huge difference on how they played, rotated and crashed the boards against a good size IU team.

Ask what my purpose is. Well last time I checked that’s kind of the point of a message board. To discuss several aspects of the team and have the freedom to state your own OPINION. Mine obviously isn’t in line with yours but on flip side if all you want to post are positive Iowa takes (which I do as well) go nuts I’m not telling you not. But don’t stand on your soap box and lecture other people on if they post something critical or how they want to post in general.

Iowa played a lot more zone against Indiana. The Hoosiers were sloppy with the ball and missed shots. I thought Iowa would have tried more zone than they did in LA.

Rebounding position absolutely gets compromised as a man-to-man defense gets broken down. Guys get in-between in help and get shoved under the basket. All sorts of stuff, and Iowa's defenses get broken down in every way. Inconsistency in rotations is of course part of it. They aren't properly drilled.

Penetration is what's most dangerous to any D and its rebounding positioning. Yes, as you say, it's the player out there that's letting his man drive around him. But for a team to execute keeping the ball in front of them at a high rate, it has to be coached into them. It has to be taught in high detail and drilled to high execution. It has to be emphasized at all times. Players have to be held accountable by their coaches

 

[eyesofhawk]

Who should be blamed? I have played and coached. There are fundamentals to rebounding and call it an art if you want. But part of the game, especially defense and rebounding, effort as important as ever. You are never going to see Payton S. lack effort in his shot or trying to get open. Or any shooter really.
Some really good books on rebounding, John Wooden and George Raveling for a couple.
In rebounding simply drills to help you know how to step through to screen out, but there is also timing, reading a shot, and positioning is important.
I never really get into bashing players, but you can read effort on the court.

Unfortunately, the players door has opened up for criticism, as the cash flow has opened to them.

The only good thing out of NIL is more under classmen are staying in college instead of entering the NFL draft because they can make more. Two years ago it was around 140 players and last year cut in half to around 70.

I have played and coached as well.

Yes, effort is important in rebounding. But positioning is most important in defensive rebounding. And poor defense leads to poor rebounding position.

Then add in that Fran actually teaches them to not box out in certain situations.

Then add in that there are rarely any natural rebounders on the floor, and this team is set up to get crushed on the boards. It really doesn't have much to do with effort.

When it comes to offensive rebounding, exerting great effort, to challenge a taller/more athletic player that already has position, on the boards, is actually a dumb decision, as the effort would much better be spent sprinting back of defense

 

[eyesofhawk]

I mean this sincerely, of course it's warranted. The effort, especially by guys like the older Sandfort, at times has been horrible and he's older than many NBA players and I'd be surprised if he wasn't making more money than most people on this board.

It's not 1983 anymore.

Did Momcilovic step onto campus giving max effort 100% of the time?

You ought to know this better than anybody. ISU has good defensive teams every year because their coach builds it that way. TJ emphasizes and teaches it in great detail every day in practice. He holds his players accountable. If they take a play off, TJ puts them on the bench.

That's not how Iowa is built. Players don't have the effort emphasized, and don't get held accountable for their efforts. So it doesn't become a given.

Yes, it's on the players to bring it. But it's on the coaches to develop it to a higher and more consistent level. And when there are 15 years of similar inconsistencies in effort shown by the program, it doesn't make any sense to look anywhere but the top

 

[BrotherHawkeye]

"For the norm to be everyone giving maximum effort at all times, it has to be a product of coaching. Practices have to be challenging in a way that lifts the team and its individuals to a to a standard level of effort that they didn't know they had. Players have to be pushed and held accountable."

Are you talking about Division 1 level basketball players or 7th graders? The latter, I'll give you. The former, BS. I don't give a crap if they don't know how to block out, fight through a screen, close out on shooter, double team, switch, or whatever (none of which is true because at some point since they picked up a basketball at age 5 they've been introduced to these concepts). And while effort can be encouraged or the lack thereof by a player can be pointed out, a player, at this level, should be ready to give maximum effort on both ends of the court for every game. They don't get a pass because their coaches can't coach. That's an excuse-ridden, loser mentality. "Well, we would have worked harder, but we weren't told to do so." Uh . . . No.

And it has nothing to do with whether they're getting paid or not. They are subject to the same criticism whether they get paid or not. I'm the one paying to watch them play or taking time out of my evening to watch them play. You want me to watch, then I expect my favorite team to give top effort every game. That's the deal. That's an expectation I have as a fan, completely independent of them getting paid. And when it appears to me they're not doing so, then I'm going to criticize their effort. Joe DiMaggio said it best when asked why he plays so hard, “Because there’s always some kid who may be seeing me for the first time. I owe him my best.” Coaches, coach like that. Players, play like that. Very simple.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Exactly this! It's constructive criticism and pointing out the obvious flaws. Sorry if anyone on here is thin skinned, but players need to step up or get portal'ed IMO. Plenty of other fish in the sea!

What's the point of any post on a message board?

Fran isn’t immune to some blame but yet you blame poor rebounding due to poor positioning from poor defense. Can blame zone on staff but on man they are the ones out there and that is on them the guys on the floor who put them in that bad spot. And from being at the IU game and watching LA games no they are not doing either as well as they could be. Huge difference on how they played, rotated and crashed the boards against a good size IU team.

Ask what my purpose is. Well last time I checked that’s kind of the point of a message board. To discuss several aspects of the team and have the freedom to state your own OPINION. Mine obviously isn’t in line with yours but on flip side if all you want to post are positive Iowa takes (which I do as well) go nuts I’m not telling you not. But don’t stand on your soap box and lecture other people on if they post something critical or how they want to post in general.

Man, you guys can be dense.

What constructive purpose does the negative conversation serve?

If you can't come up with one, then maybe expressing your opinions on here isn't as important as you make it out to be.

Maybe it isn't the right thing to do at all. Because I can tell you the destructive potentialities of the negativity

 

[ISUBryce]

Man, you guys can be dense.

What constructive purpose does the negative conversation serve?

If you can't come up with one, then maybe expressing your opinions on here isn't as important as you make it out to be.

Maybe it isn't the right thing to do at all. Because I can tell you the destructive potentialities of the negativity

What constructive purpose do positive conversations serve?

 

[LukaDuka]

Man, you guys can be dense.

What constructive purpose does the negative conversation serve?

If you can't come up with one, then maybe expressing your opinions on here isn't as important as you make it out to be.

Maybe it isn't the right thing to do at all. Because I can tell you the destructive potentialities of the negativity

Thanks Margret or is it Karen?