Elon is not a part of DOGE according to the White House

[gohawks50]

Elon Musk is not the leader of DOGE — the mysterious Trump administration operation overseeing an effort to break and remake the federal bureaucracy. In fact, he’s not even technically part of it at all, the White House said in court papers Monday night.

In a three-page declaration, a top White House personnel official revealed that Musk’s title is “senior adviser to the president,” a role in which he has “no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself.”

That explanation, provided to a federal court by Joshua Fisher, the director of the White House’s Office of Administration, seems to directly contradict the way President Donald Trump and Musk have spoken publicly about the so-called Department of Government Efficiency, widely seen as a Musk-driven project to shrink and dismantle key aspects of the federal government.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/17/doge-administrator-elon-musk-00204639

 

[ping72]

Well… then he’s definitely breaking the law!

 

[Scruddy]

Well… then he’s definitely breaking the law!

What law specifically are you asserting is being broken?

 

[Aardvark86]

As I understand the AGs' claims, it's basically an appointments clause claim to the effect that Musk is a senior government official exercising policy discretion, which would require senate confirmation. (Side note, as I mentioned in the other thread, notice how D's are learning from the process and structure stuff from the last four years). By characterizing him as a presidential advisor and not as putative head of doge with policy authority, it may defeat that claim in the absence of some actual evidence that he (personally) is going beyond the advisory role. That's obviously fact dependent, but it does strike me that many of the things people are most upset about (though not all of them) sound more operational/administrative than policymaking in nature. It also probably provides some greater defenses in terms of executive privilege and the like.

 

[BelemNole]

I bet all those people who have been fired disagree.

 

[gohawks50]

I bet all those people who have been fired disagree.

It's all an attempt to sidestep the lawsuit filed by state AGs.

 

[MitchLL]

Appears Trump is beginning to get annoyed with President Musk getting credit for all these drastic actions.

Only took 3-4 weeks.

LOL

 

[franklinman]

Elon Musk is not the leader of DOGE — the mysterious Trump administration operation overseeing an effort to break and remake the federal bureaucracy. In fact, he’s not even technically part of it at all, the White House said in court papers Monday night.

In a three-page declaration, a top White House personnel official revealed that Musk’s title is “senior adviser to the president,” a role in which he has “no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself.”

That explanation, provided to a federal court by Joshua Fisher, the director of the White House’s Office of Administration, seems to directly contradict the way President Donald Trump and Musk have spoken publicly about the so-called Department of Government Efficiency, widely seen as a Musk-driven project to shrink and dismantle key aspects of the federal government.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/17/doge-administrator-elon-musk-00204639

But we all know better, we are NOT IDIOTS like MAGGOTs.

 

[Joes Place]

Elon Musk is not the leader of DOGE — the mysterious Trump administration operation overseeing an effort to break and remake the federal bureaucracy. In fact, he’s not even technically part of it at all, the White House said in court papers Monday night.

In a three-page declaration, a top White House personnel official revealed that Musk’s title is “senior adviser to the president,” a role in which he has “no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself.”

That explanation, provided to a federal court by Joshua Fisher, the director of the White House’s Office of Administration, seems to directly contradict the way President Donald Trump and Musk have spoken publicly about the so-called Department of Government Efficiency, widely seen as a Musk-driven project to shrink and dismantle key aspects of the federal government.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/17/doge-administrator-elon-musk-00204639

Except that he has admitted it, publicly, in postings on his own site.

Referring to "we", multiple times.

 

[Joes Place]

As I understand the AGs' claims, it's basically an appointments clause claim to the effect that Musk is a senior government official exercising policy discretion, which would require senate confirmation. (Side note, as I mentioned in the other thread, notice how D's are learning from the process and structure stuff from the last four years). By characterizing him as a presidential advisor and not as putative head of doge with policy authority, it may defeat that claim in the absence of some actual evidence that he (personally) is going beyond the advisory role. That's obviously fact dependent, but it does strike me that many of the things people are most upset about (though not all of them) sound more operational/administrative than policymaking in nature. It also probably provides some greater defenses in terms of executive privilege and the like.

Except an "advisor" would not need to be "onsite", nor mention "We" in posts made about DOGE and about finding "fraud" constantly.

He's already admitted direct involvement; trying to back out of that should be a pretty transparent ploy that no judge should put up with.

Subpoena him to sit down for Q&A and ask direct questions; when he lies, put him in jail for 30 days and try again.

 

[Aardvark86]

Except an "advisor" would not need to be "onsite", nor mention "We" in posts made about DOGE and about finding "fraud" constantly.

He's already admitted direct involvement; trying to back out of that should be a pretty transparent ploy that no judge should put up with.

Subpoena him to sit down for Q&A and ask direct questions; when he lies, put him in jail for 30 days and try again.

I think physical siting isn't here nor there as to advisor status. And people (especially those with political jobs) communicate sloppily all the time (and in many cases here, flat out misleadingly) without getting into exercising policy discretion.

As I noted, there's absolutely going to be a factual element to this. So I suspect you're absolutely right that if a judge decides to pressure test that affidavit a bit, it's going to go sideways pretty quickly for him.

 

[Joes Place]

I think physical siting isn't here nor there as to advisor status.

Combined with saying "we" and posting examples nonstop is far beyond any "advisory" role.

And, if he's an "advisor", what are the directions being given resulting in deleting dozens of OSHA guidance docs, particularly ones that happen to have "DEI buzzwords" in them?

 

[HROT]

 

[HawkNester]

What law specifically are you asserting is being broken?

Well since Elon can do it I think I’ll hop on a flight and give him a hand. It would be fun to see all your information. I think I’ll make it public while I’m at it.

 

[Joes Place]

As I understand the AGs' claims, it's basically an appointments clause claim to the effect that Musk is a senior government official exercising policy discretion, which would require senate confirmation. (Side note, as I mentioned in the other thread, notice how D's are learning from the process and structure stuff from the last four years). By characterizing him as a presidential advisor and not as putative head of doge with policy authority, it may defeat that claim in the absence of some actual evidence that he (personally) is going beyond the advisory role. That's obviously fact dependent, but it does strike me that many of the things people are most upset about (though not all of them) sound more operational/administrative than policymaking in nature. It also probably provides some greater defenses in terms of executive privilege and the like.

 

[Arbor1]

We must protest!!!😂

 

[Scruddy]

What results? He's given you a bunch of bullshit. Do you really think that a couple dozen programmers with no accounting background have fully audited, what, eight government agencies in three or four weeks? It's laughable to believe that.

And WTF does Hunter Biden have to do with anything? I wouldn't trust him managing a laundry mat.

Hunter was selling influence to the last democrat president of the US for starters

Illegally accessing these departments and overriding the constitution will restore faith in the government? These are criminal activities. Go back and hide under your rock. it's cold out.

Nothing you just said is accurate lol

Well since Elon can do it I think I’ll hop on a flight and give him a hand. It would be fun to see all your information. I think I’ll make it public while I’m at it.

Good luck getting hired lol something tells me you wouldn't make the cut for employment. DOGE is an Obama created group btw

 

[HawkNester]

Hunter was selling influence to the last democrat president of the US for starters

Nothing you just said is accurate lol

Good luck getting hired lol something tells me you wouldn't make the cut for employment. DOGE is an Obama created group btw

I’ll put my resume up against anyone’s Scrud. 😊

 

[Scruddy]

I’ll put my resume up against anyone’s Scrud. 😊

You have nothing on big bollz

 

[gohawks50]

We must protest!!!😂

View embedded media

The question is who is running DOGE if Elon has nothing to do with it?

 

[Aardvark86]

Combined with saying "we" and posting examples nonstop is far beyond any "advisory" role.

And, if he's an "advisor", what are the directions being given resulting in deleting dozens of OSHA guidance docs, particularly ones that happen to have "DEI buzzwords" in them?

dude, chillax a bit. As I noted, I do suspect this will ultimately go sideways for him if the judge applies a little scrutiny.

But you need to get over the title stuff a bit, particularly from a pre-inauguration pressor which may or may not reflect the actual structure they used for the guy. Use of "we" (royal or otherwise), and where one is physically located, IMO are simply not that germane to whether an official is exercising material policy authority, which is the relevant inquiry in an appointment clause claim. Maybe there's a perry mason moment out there for you, but trust me, that's not it. Honestly, I'm not even sure the deletion of guidance docs does either, given the fact that the policy judgment underlying those things, for better or worse, appears in the DEI Executive Order signed by the President. Likewise, merely accessing an information systems isn't, though it may entail other problems, or could become one depending on what is done with the information.

 

[franklinman]

IF there is a bigger LIAR, IGNORANT POS than Stephen Miller i would like to know who it is, RIH Miller.

 

[Joes Place]

Likewise, merely accessing an information systems isn't, though it may entail other problems

Firing a bunch of DOE employees that protect the nuclear arsenal, then having to "backtrack" and unfire them is "just accessing information systems"....???



Judge ought to be asking for examples like this to be brought up, and finding out WHO sent out the termination memos.
Let Musk sit in a cell UNTIL someone answers that question, and you'll get an answer.

Keep stacking them up in cells until you find out where those terminations are coming from. Then we'll know.

 

[Aardvark86]

Firing a bunch of DOE employees that protect the nuclear arsenal, then having to "backtrack" and unfire them is "just accessing information systems"....???

View embedded media

Judge ought to be asking for examples like this to be brought up, and finding out WHO sent out the termination memos.
Let Musk sit in a cell UNTIL someone answers that question, and you'll get an answer.

Keep stacking them up in cells until you find out where those terminations are coming from. Then we'll know.

to be clear, one of these things is not like the other, though I think you know that.

But again, where's the exercise of policy discretion. There may be plenty of civil service/hr-related reasons that people can't be fired, but this is not the thing appointments clause cases are made of.

 

[doughuddl2]

Elon Musk is not the leader of DOGE — the mysterious Trump administration operation overseeing an effort to break and remake the federal bureaucracy. In fact, he’s not even technically part of it at all, the White House said in court papers Monday night.

In a three-page declaration, a top White House personnel official revealed that Musk’s title is “senior adviser to the president,” a role in which he has “no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself.”

That explanation, provided to a federal court by Joshua Fisher, the director of the White House’s Office of Administration, seems to directly contradict the way President Donald Trump and Musk have spoken publicly about the so-called Department of Government Efficiency, widely seen as a Musk-driven project to shrink and dismantle key aspects of the federal government.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/17/doge-administrator-elon-musk-00204639

Politico 😆 🤣 😂 😹

 

[Joes Place]

to be clear, one of these things is not like the other, though I think you know that.

Musk claimed directly he led the group.
Trump confirmed it.

So, put Elno on your witness stand and ASK him who orchestrated these firings (particularly the ones they tried to "undo").
If he cannot answer, cite him for contempt and let him sit in a cell until he brings up the names.

It'll end this little facade pretty quickly.

 

[Aardvark86]

Musk claimed directly he led the group.
Trump confirmed it.

So, put Elno on your witness stand and ASK him who orchestrated these firings (particularly the ones they tried to "undo").
If he cannot answer, cite him for contempt and let him sit in a cell until he brings up the names.

It'll end this little facade pretty quickly.

that's fine, but it doesn't have much to do with teh appointment clause lawsuit.

 

[gohawks50]

Politico 😆 🤣 😂 😹

https://www.reuters.com/legal/white-house-says-musk-is-not-doge-employee-has-no-authority-make-decisions-2025-02-18/

Contradictory statements about Musk make it unclear who runs DOGE

In an affidavit filed in federal court Tuesday, a White House official said Elon Musk is not the administrator of the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE.

abcnews.go.com

Not Even DOGE Employees Know Who’s Legally Running DOGE

Despite all appearances, the White House insists that Elon Musk is not in charge of DOGE. US Doge Service employees can’t get a straight answer about who is.

www.wired.com

In court filing, White House says Musk isn’t actually leading DOGE

For several weeks, Team Trump said Elon Musk was overseeing the DOGE effort. But in a curious court filing, the White House’s line changed dramatically.

www.msnbc.com

 

[Tiny Hands Trump]

Not sure how well that would fly given past comments.

 

[ping72]

What law specifically are you asserting is being broken?

Lots of them, but here’s an easy one for you. fElon and DOGE just infiltrated the IRS. They just went on CNN and said they are giving information to ICE.

That is a very clear violation of Internal Revenue Code (IRC) § 6103, which makes it illegal for the IRS to disclose taxpayer information except in specific, legally authorized situations. IRC 7213 lays out the felony criminal liability for violations and that those whose information was illegally accessed can sue civilly for money damages.

 

[Scruddy]

Lots of them, but here’s an easy one for you. fElon and DOGE just infiltrated the IRS. They just went on CNN and said they are giving information to ICE.

That is a very clear violation of Internal Revenue Code (IRC) § 6103, which makes it illegal for the IRS to disclose taxpayer information except in specific, legally authorized situations. IRC 7213 lays out the felony criminal liability for violations and that those whose information was illegally accessed can sue civilly for money damages.

Them illegal aliens covered by those rights you think?

 

[Aardvark86]

Them illegal aliens covered by those rights you think?

yes they are.

 

[Scruddy]

yes they are.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Aardvark86]

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Thoughts on this?

1. they won't.
2. it's irrelevant to whether the irs security laws apply
3. if someone's in the irs database, presumably due to (wait for it) having paid taxes, how would they be "stealing taxpayer dollars"?

 

[franklinman]

Politico 😆 🤣 😂 😹

MUSKY is just another servant, much like Adams for CORRUPT, CRAZY Filthy Don. Donnie tells them to take a shit, they obey.

 

[Colonoscopy]

 

[ping72]

These illegal immigrants are lazy drains on tax money.

We should go to their workplaces and round them up… and use their taxpayer information to track them down!!!

Wait, what??