Face it, this is Iowa under Fran

HawkeyeGenius

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There is nothing awful about it, but Iowa under Fran more often than not will be that 6th to 9th place conference team. They’ll make the tournament half the time and be out that first weekend. They won’t compete with the top of the conference typically. They’ll usually always have a winning record. They’ll be within a game or two of .500 in the conference more often than not. I mean it is what it is. This is the product under Fran.
 

intrepodor

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There is nothing awful about it, but Iowa under Fran more often than not will be that 6th to 9th place conference team. They’ll make the tournament half the time and be out that first weekend. They won’t compete with the top of the conference typically. They’ll usually always have a winning record. They’ll be within a game or two of .500 in the conference more often than not. I mean it is what it is. This is the product under Fran.
And with Barta it won't change
 

iahawks10

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You could make the argument that this is Iowa Basketball for the last 40 years.

You could also point out that Iowa has finished 6th-9th exactly once in the past eight seasons (6th 2018-19). Seven seasons better than 6th place. One season worse than 9th.

‘They’ll make the tournament half the time’ or six of the last eight seasons, whichever is greater.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

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This is Iowa Basketball since the mid to late 80's.
Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but didn’t BJ, Marble, and Horton leave in ‘89?

I always wonder how the rest of the Tom Davis era would have gone if not for the Chris Street tragedy. Regardless, Iowa basketball has reached its ceiling under Fran already. It’s time for a change. Playing a guard over 15 mpg who shoots 17% from the field is ridiculous.
 

iahawks10

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Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but didn’t BJ, Marble, and Horton leave in ‘89?

I always wonder how the rest of the Tom Davis era would have gone if not for the Chris Street tragedy. Regardless, Iowa basketball has reached its ceiling under Fran already. It’s time for a change. Playing a guard over 15 mpg who shoots 17% from the field is ridiculous.

No, you’re remembering it correctly. 88-89 had BJ, Bullard, Horton, Jepsen, and Marble. All NBA players and upper classmen. They finished 4th in the B1G, within two games of .500 in conference, and didn’t make it past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. Iowa Basketball.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

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No, you’re remembering it correctly. 88-89 had BJ, Bullard, Horton, Jepsen, and Marble. All NBA players and upper classmen. They finished 4th in the B1G, within two games of .500 in conference, and didn’t make it past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. Iowa Basketball.
Okay, but they made the Elite 8 the previous year, right? And should have been in the FF.
 

HawkeyeGenius

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You could make the argument that this is Iowa Basketball for the last 40 years.

You could also point out that Iowa has finished 6th-9th exactly once in the past eight seasons (6th 2018-19). Seven seasons better than 6th place. One season worse than 9th.

‘They’ll make the tournament half the time’ or six of the last eight seasons, whichever is greater.
Really?

Year 1: 10th
Year 2: Tied for 7th with NW
Year 3: 6th
Year 4: 6th
Year 5: Tied for 4th with Purdue (5 seed BTT)
Year 6: Four way tie for 3rd (5 seed BTT)
Year 7: Four way tie for 5th (7 seed BTT)
Year 8: Three way tie for 11th (12 seed BTT)
Year 9: 6th
Year 10: Four way tie for 5th (5 seed BTT)
Year 11: 3rd
Year 12: TBD currently 9th

Seems pretty accurate to me. I can go through.

Would you feel better if I said 5th to 9th?
 

EagleHawk

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Really?

Year 1: 10th
Year 2: Tied for 7th with NW
Year 3: 6th
Year 4: 6th
Year 5: Tied for 4th with Purdue (5 seed BTT)
Year 6: Four way tie for 3rd (5 seed BTT)
Year 7: Four way tie for 5th (7 seed BTT)
Year 8: Three way tie for 11th (12 seed BTT)
Year 9: 6th
Year 10: Four way tie for 5th (5 seed BTT)
Year 11: 3rd
Year 12: TBD currently 9th

Seems pretty accurate to me. I can go through.

Would you feel better if I said 5th to 9th?
It would make your post at least a little bit accurate. So would you feel better saying 5th, and not being wrong?
 

iahawks10

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Really?

Year 5: Tied for 4th with Purdue (5 seed BTT)


Would you feel better if I said 5th to 9th?

*Year 5: Tied for 3rd with Purdue and MSU.

I would actually feel better since it would be more accurate. Thanks for the consideration.

EDIT: There’s a lot of your post I completely agree with and very accurate IMO. The problem is that it’s not unique to Fran in regards to the recent history of Iowa Basketball.
 
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Pepperman

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It’s one thing to have similar results as the last 30 years.

it’s another thing to engage in nepotism, publicly declare officials to be cheaters, and to be an uncontrollable hot head on the sideline.

I’ll take a KF on the sidelines finishing 5-9th in conference who doesn’t embarrass my university.
 

SotaHawk87

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It’s one thing to have similar results as the last 30 years.

it’s another thing to engage in nepotism, publicly declare officials to be cheaters, and to be an uncontrollable hot head on the sideline.

I’ll take a KF on the sidelines finishing 5-9th in conference who doesn’t embarrass my university.
Lol Kirk doesn’t engage in nepotism? His son walked into a ****ing booth and berated officials. I love KF but he allows much of the same shit none of which I think is that big of a deal. Fran is a fine representative of the university.
 

shudaddy

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Yep OP

I am done with the Fran era. He is what he is and I guess more fans are fine with it than are like me and want a new direction. Nothing wrong with wanting more.
His teams are so damn frustrating. I like how they push in transition, but our D is always bad…..every year. We get blown by on drives with poor help, don’t box out aggressively, & leave wide-open 3’s all the time. I always hoped he would get a good d-focused assistant coach, but it’s pretty obvious none of them know s$&t about coaching D.
 

fivecardstud14

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It’s one thing to have similar results as the last 30 years.

it’s another thing to engage in nepotism, publicly declare officials to be cheaters, and to be an uncontrollable hot head on the sideline.

I’ll take a KF on the sidelines finishing 5-9th in conference who doesn’t embarrass my university.
You're also the guy who said Fran has never made it past the first round in the NCAA tourney so you have no objectivity at all. And you're a Ferentz fan boy.
 

Mccusk34

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His teams are so damn frustrating. I like how they push in transition, but our D is always bad…..every year. We get blown by on drives with poor help, don’t box out aggressively, & leave wide-open 3’s all the time. I always hoped he would get a good d-focused assistant coach, but it’s pretty obvious none of them know s$&t about coaching D.
I remember on a podcast a few years back a player admitting that they never practiced defense when he was there. The story became that after that they started practicing defense. I wonder how much time they do devote to D, because this team consistently looks lost on D.
 

BVHawkeye

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Actually I don't mind Fran. We got caught a little short with Weezy, Nunge, and Frederick leaving. Garza was the only one out of eligibility. I would think we'd be ok with Weezy and Nunge in the lineup. I love his style of play. Agree with defense and rebounding. I much rather have an up temp team that a stud defensive team that can't score.
 

jimbob22

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It’s one thing to have similar results as the last 30 years.

it’s another thing to engage in nepotism, publicly declare officials to be cheaters, and to be an uncontrollable hot head on the sideline.

I’ll take a KF on the sidelines finishing 5-9th in conference who doesn’t embarrass my university.
Some people are too easily embarrassed. I suggest you move on. Check out Iowa chess club on YouTube.
 
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DewHawk

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There is nothing awful about it, but Iowa under Fran more often than not will be that 6th to 9th place conference team. They’ll make the tournament half the time and be out that first weekend. They won’t compete with the top of the conference typically. They’ll usually always have a winning record. They’ll be within a game or two of .500 in the conference more often than not. I mean it is what it is. This is the product under Fran.
Agree 100% and it will never change under FM and his current assistant coaches. Too comfortable IMO!
 

TampaHawkfan

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The previous year (1988) was the sweet 16. Two years before (1987) was the Elite 8 and the UNLV loss.

Correct. I know they lost that 1989 2nd Round game to NC State in double OT after being hit with the ridiculous Ray Thompson suspension on the eve of the NCAA tournament.

The 80s saw a Final Four, an Elite 8, and two Sweet 16s.

Basically the second round loss pattern has been an "Iowa basketball since the 1990s" situation.

Even then, Iowa went to the Sweet 16 in 1999 and would've easily been Sweet 16 or better in 1993 if not for losing Street.

Really, Iowa coaches have been unable to get back to that point since Davis was shown the door. 2000s forward.

Fran is close to Davis but I still give Davis the edge of I had to choose between the two.
 
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83Hawk

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I would be happy just to see Fran win more than one game in the Big 10 tournament.

I am grateful to Fran for bringing Iowa out of the scrap heap. But he has peaked. It won’t ever be better under him. Good enough to make the NCAA most years….no threat for a Big 10 conference or tournament title, unlikely to make a Sweet 16, usually not able to beat the better teams.

I realize this is “good enough” for some fans.
 

spiderland

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Correct. I know they lost that 1989 2nd Round game to NC State in double OT after being hit with the ridiculous Ray Thompson suspension on the eve of the NCAA tournament.

The 80s saw a Final Four, an Elite 8, and two Sweet 16s.

Basically the second round loss pattern has been an "Iowa basketball since the 1990s" situation.

Even then, Iowa went to the Sweet 16 in 1999 and would've easily been Sweet 16 or better in 1993 if not for losing Street.

Really, Iowa coaches have been unable to get back to that point since Davis was shown the door. 2000s forward.

Fran is close to Davis but I still give Davis the edge of I had to choose between the two.
That ‘89 team by rights “should” have at least been Sweet 16 if not for an other-worldly performance by Rodney Monroe (that also seems to be Iowa Basketball). Hawks played an incredible game (they may have been close to perfect from FT line), but…Rodney Monroe. I lived in Boston at the time and was at that game in Providence. I saw it. Devastating way for that class to go out.

I totally give the edge to Dr. Tom over Fran (in another thread I stated Davis good, not great) if for no other reason than he almost always got the most out of what he had to work with (which was rarely elite), and sometimes even more. You can correctly say the ‘87 team was with 100% inherited players, but at least he took elite talent and brought them to within a few minutes of a Final Four. Who here seriously believes that Fran would have accomplished similar with that ‘87 team? Probably would have finished behind IU, Purdue, Illinois, and Michigan in conference that year. Maybe even Ohio State.

But yes, to the point that others have made, this is Iowa Basketball for the past four decades. We had a future Hall of Fame coach leave, and for a variety of reasons involving talent and/or coaching, have been pretty consistently fairly mediocre since. After 40 years, you have to start to consider that this is our ceiling.

It is what it is.
 

90-0

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Agree 100% and it will never change under FM and his current assistant coaches. Too comfortable IMO!
This. I get tired of the "this is iowa" when it comes to expectations. There is zero pressure for both football and basketball. As long as a semi competent product is out there it's good enough. I also hate the "remember the Lickliter years" people too. That was 12 damn years ago. Using that as a crutch is weak
 

Suterman

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They made an elite 8 in 87 and a sweet 16 in 88 and a sweet 16 in 99 so no. No its not. 23 years drama queens
Since 1990 is a better time frame. That's 32 years of competitive basketball but except for Alford's 2 B1G tournament wins, we have not been a championship level team.
 

Rifler

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So, what is your point? I doubt either one of you are a D1 coach.

My point is that it's a useless bit of information,.. If you're interested in watching a program that has a coach that regularly makes the sweet sixteen go elsewhere,... because that isn't here.
 
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DewHawk

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My point is that it's a useless bit of information,.. If you're interested in watching a program that has a coach that regularly makes the sweet sixteen go elsewhere,... because that isn't here.
Okay, I guess you are okay with that, and some people are not, but root for Iowa not the coach.
 
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HawkLogic

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You could make the argument that this is Iowa Basketball for the last 40 years.

You could also point out that Iowa has finished 6th-9th exactly once in the past eight seasons (6th 2018-19). Seven seasons better than 6th place. One season worse than 9th.

‘They’ll make the tournament half the time’ or six of the last eight seasons, whichever is greater.

I think thow of Fran's teams have had a 4-way and 3-way shared 3rd place finish. That does not mean they were 3rd best team those years. Both those shared 3rd place teams got bounced out in 1st round of BTT. Add in the BTT record and those teams finished closer to 6th/5th place in Big10 overall record.

After 11 years, looks like Fran will never win a conference title.

Even last year's clear 3rd place team in regular season got bounced out in 1st game in BTT. The 11 year Fran trend is he won't win you a BTT championship, ever.

Fran has 37 year career with and zero sweet16 appearances...so odds are his "system" will never translate into a sweet 16 appearance at Iowa.

Fran's overall record is at 0.500 in B1G play, which fits the narrative that we are experiencing an average Fran year right now....maybe trendng towards a below average year and NIT.

Lute Olson had better B1G record and Final4 and a shared B1G regular season title....that is the high mark.
Raveling was an incredible recruiter and set the table for Davis
Davis had an Elte 8 appearnace, later a sweet 16 with his own guys, and little bit over 0.500 B1G record

Alford at least won the BTT a couple times and 0.500 B1G record.

Why we pay a guy $2.9 million for results that are average and then make him out to be some type of high level coach is the question.

If he wasn't managing the team like it was the Universtiy of McCaffery with obvious agenda to play his kids over better players, or if he had actually done something that didn't end in a Woodshed beating in NCAA round of 32, I'd have more patience.
 

hexumhawk

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His teams are so damn frustrating. I like how they push in transition, but our D is always bad…..every year. We get blown by on drives with poor help, don’t box out aggressively, & leave wide-open 3’s all the time. I always hoped he would get a good d-focused assistant coach, but it’s pretty obvious none of them know s$&t about coaching D.
Agreed

He seems to know offense and how to teach it, but zero clue on how to teach D.

There was one main guy to guard on the perimeter going in to the game....we leave him wide open 7-8 times in the first half.
 

DewHawk

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I suppose,.. I choose to root for the entire team, but not rely on their success for personal validation...
Okay, I did not realize wanting your favorite team to win is "personal validation". Thanks for the insight.
 
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Ronman

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Fran is close to Davis but I still give Davis the edge of I had to choose between the two.
And yet Davis is looked back on fondly, while McCaffery is reviled on here.

I suspect there is not one person on this board that wouldn't like us to be a powerhouse, but seriously, we have hardly ever been close to that. And that includes Lute's reign. If someone with psychic powers could tell me that if we would just hire (Name here) as a coach and suddenly we would be world beaters, I would be all for firing McCaffery tomorrow and making the new hire. But we've seen more than once what a crapshoot it is firing a "decent" coach and jumping on the flavor of the year (see Lickliter). I don't have the answer, nor do I any of you. And given Barta's penchant for trying to turn longevity into the standard of excellence, I strongly suspect McCaffery will be here as long as he wants, just as Ferentz will.
 

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