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Fatal Shooting by Police in Grand Rapids

Some of you on here are really stupid on this topic. It is a fricking traffic ticket. Let him run, get a warrant, pick him up later. This is just dumb, and I can't believe some of you are saying "well if he didn't resist / run".

A traffic ticket. Think about that. Utter waste of life and I hope the cop goes to prison, and the city gets better LEO training.

A traffic ticket.
I usually agree with you Jimmy, but this one just looked like a series of bad, bad choices by the suspect that ended in tragedy.

Sure, the cop could have made different choices, but he sure seemed to be trying to just execute a pretty simple stop and the suspect just kept making poor, dangerous choices until it all spiraled out of control.

I can’t see this shooting be anything other than justified.
 
The good news in all of this is that we have an example of the latest in progressive, accountable policing taking place in Minneapolis. Brought to you specifically by folks who don't have any idea about policing! We've got hundreds of fewer officers there now, which is good! They're not out killing innocent minorities in cold blood. However.... there's one drawback. Crime, in virtually all categories, specifically violent crime, has gone up dramatically. I'm sure this tide will turn soon enough though. The counselors and feel good folks will make criminals change their ways. We're in good hands!
 
I usually agree with you Jimmy, but this one just looked like a series of bad, bad choices by the suspect that ended in tragedy.

Sure, the cop could have made different choices, but he sure seemed to be trying to just execute a pretty simple stop and the suspect just kept making poor, dangerous choices until it all spiraled out of control.

I can’t see this shooting be anything other than justified.

I really don't care if anyone disagrees with me. To each their own, but I can tell you that if this happened in central Iowa, I'd be filing a lawsuit on behalf of the family in a civil rights action, and I guarantee the city would be paying millions.

A traffic ticket.
 
What's amazing is the hindsight we use to judge these people doing one of the most difficult jobs possible. Whats amazing is your willingness to give one guy a pass and not the other.
People we give permission to kill citizens? You think we shouldn't watch them closely and evaluate what they do when people die?
 
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The good news in all of this is that we have an example of the latest in progressive, accountable policing taking place in Minneapolis. Brought to you specifically by folks who don't have any idea about policing! We've got hundreds of fewer officers there now, which is good! They're not out killing innocent minorities in cold blood. However.... there's one drawback. Crime, in virtually all categories, specifically violent crime, has gone up dramatically. I'm sure this tide will turn soon enough though. The counselors and feel good folks will make criminals change their ways. We're in good hands!
Traffic ticket!
 
The plates. That was the stop. Is that a capital offence? If he went before a judge would get jail time? Life? Executed?
Failure to obey. There's a catch-all huh? Doesn't even have to be a lawful command anymore. Just failed to 'obey'.
Resisting. Ah now we get to it. So much as take too long to unbuckle you seat belt and you're resisting.
It's amazing how so many bad interactions with cops are covered up with 'failure to obey' and 'resisting' and then the citizen is just fighting to stay out of jail instead of questioning why our police are poorly trained or treating the populace like inmates.
These examples do not apply.

Driver clearly did not follow several lawful AND reasonable commands and I think grabbing an officer's weapon is also a pretty clear cut attempt to resist arrest.

Again the plate issue is not a capital offense but that is not the direct cause the perp was shot. Like I have said, it is still to be determined if it was justifiable or not.
 
I really don't care if anyone disagrees with me. To each their own, but I can tell you that if this happened in central Iowa, I'd be filing a lawsuit on behalf of the family in a civil rights action, and I guarantee the city would be paying millions.

A traffic ticket.

And the transition to Saul Goodman is complete.
 
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Dude they just found a shooter from some grainy subway video in 2 days. You don't think a car even with a sketchy plate and 5 minutes of video of the guy's face wouldn't be able to ID him in a small city?
Here's another FWIW ... Grand Rapids is the second largest city in Michigan, only behind Detroit. Please don't tell me it's still smaller than NYC.
 
Again . . . why would I think that a cop who pulled me over for speeding (I can have a heavy foot from time to time) would do anything to me? I don't fit the demographic.

And, while I don't have the time to type it now, I have had an interaction with a cop that resulted in me having a cop pull a gun on me, having to get out of the car, being told that I was placed under arrest, asked to have my hands placed on my trunk and thrown in handcuffs (Illinois computer records mistakenly had my license showing as suspended).

I've had many moments since then where I've felt thankful that I looked the way I looked.
And you complied. That is kind of a big deal and likely the reason you are here today. You didn’t resist arrest. You didn’t punch the officer. You didn’t try to take his taser or gun. Congrats on not getting shot. I am sure that is because you are white?
 
I live about 45 minutes south of where this took place and as of yesterday afternoon many downtown businesses were boarding up their storefronts. It’s a shame so many of these “activists” jump to conclusions, fail to assign any personal responsibility to the deceased, and will use this as a chance to cause destruction in their own city.
 
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Cop didn't escalate this one at all.

Totally avoidable tragedy if the suspect didn't choose to fight/run/resist.

I do think this demonstrates why it's better to have a partner, though. I feel like this situation would not have spiraled and resulted in violence if this cop had backup.
This.
 
These examples do not apply.

Driver clearly did not follow several lawful AND reasonable commands and I think grabbing an officer's weapon is also a pretty clear cut attempt to resist arrest.

Again the plate issue is not a capital offense but that is not the direct cause the perp was shot. Like I have said, it is still to be determined if it was justifiable or not.
We're talking about different things.
You and others are saying that based on how things stand in the US today that doing what he did (and how he looked) naturally led to the officer killing him and that the officer will not be found at fault. I don't disagree with that.
What I'm saying is that shouldn't be the case. We shouldn't expect for our police to kill US citizens on stops like this. It doesn't happen in other developed countries but we seem to accept it. We shouldn't. We make excuses. Some of them even may be valid, but they lead to other questions that need to be examined as well.
But no where else in the developed would do they kill their own people over things like this. And yet we have the majority who just seem to nod along.
 
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We're talking about different things.
You and others are saying that based on how things stand in the US today that doing what he did (and how he looked) naturally led to the officer killing him and that the officer will not be found at fault. I don't disagree with that.
What I'm saying is that shouldn't be the case. We shouldn't expect for our police to kill US citizens on stops like this. It doesn't happen in other developed countries but we seem to accept it. We shouldn't. We make excuses. Some of them even may be valid, but they lead to other questions that need to be examined as well.
But no where else in the developed would do they kill their own people over things like this. And yet we have the majority who just seem to nod along.
Do you have even the slightest clue what happens to someone who assaults a cop in another country?
 
Here's another FWIW ... Grand Rapids is the second largest city in Michigan, only behind Detroit. Please don't tell me it's still smaller than NYC.
Come on, it's half the size of Sacramento. When looking at the population of the city itself it's just about the size of the suburb I live in. It's not a big town. Maybe by Iowa standards...but not for real.
 
We're talking about different things.
You and others are saying that based on how things stand in the US today that doing what he did (and how he looked) naturally led to the officer killing him and that the officer will not be found at fault. I don't disagree with that.
What I'm saying is that shouldn't be the case. We shouldn't expect for our police to kill US citizens on stops like this. It doesn't happen in other developed countries but we seem to accept it. We shouldn't. We make excuses. Some of them even may be valid, but they lead to other questions that need to be examined as well.
But no where else in the developed would do they kill their own people over things like this. And yet we have the majority who just seem to nod along.
Huh, seems like a little departure from what you were saying and what I responded to but okay.

"We shouldn't expect for our police to kill US citizens on stops like this."

I know I don't expect a traffic stop to result in someone getting killed cuz they normally don't. Almost never do ... I'll spare you the rest.
 
Well considering the cop clearly asked the guy if he could understand that wasn't the case.
But if he doesn't understand English, how can he understand the question? He answered yes, but how do we know he was answering the question the cop asked. I don't know Spanish, but I do know that see means yes. Just because he gave the expected answer doesn't mean he understood.

The cop asked him for his license and the cop thought the suspect was saying it was in the car so he said "get it." The guy opens his car door and stands there, he clearly didn't understand what he was supposed to do.
 
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Come on, it's half the size of Sacramento. When looking at the population of the city itself it's just about the size of the suburb I live in. It's not a big town. Maybe by Iowa standards...but not for real.
Lol. Hey by MI standards too! Seems like a slight but I'll let it be.

But I caution, the remainder of the restless natives might not be so charitable.
 
At some point actions are actually going to have to back words.


We need to support our police. You can't just expect good people to get the shit kicked out of them and always be in the wrong when they are trying to do an incredibly difficult job to not find other employment. This case should be an example of the need to listen to a LEO.
We cannot assume anybody was the good person here. Not enough video
 
That's not what he was pulled over for. Again, we have to be honest if we want to have a conversation.
Lol good luck with that. Honestly, it's a sad situation. Honestly, don't grab for a LEO weapon and this situation is just a traffic ticket.
 
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The good news in all of this is that we have an example of the latest in progressive, accountable policing taking place in Minneapolis. Brought to you specifically by folks who don't have any idea about policing! We've got hundreds of fewer officers there now, which is good! They're not out killing innocent minorities in cold blood. However.... there's one drawback. Crime, in virtually all categories, specifically violent crime, has gone up dramatically. I'm sure this tide will turn soon enough though. The counselors and feel good folks will make criminals change their ways. We're in good hands!
Well Biden is President so no riots are necessary!
 
Come on, it's half the size of Sacramento. When looking at the population of the city itself it's just about the size of the suburb I live in. It's not a big town. Maybe by Iowa standards...but not for real.
More importantly, when thinking of Grand Rapids. Think Pella/Sioux County in Iowa with a lot more minorities. There is a very strong and conservative “Calvinist” spirit that overwhelms that community. Think Amway.
 
The guy shouldn’t have attempted to flee. He shouldn’t have struggled. But, there just isn’t any reason that a traffic stop should end in death. It will be even more tragic if they find out it was a clerical goof and the car had been correctly registers, and the plate was good. It wasn’t like the car was going anywhere.
 
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The guy shouldn’t have attempted to flee. He shouldn’t have struggled. But, there just isn’t any reason that a traffic stop should end in death. It will be even more tragic if they find out it was a clerical goof and the car had been correctly registers, and the plate was good. It wasn’t like the car was going anywhere.
If the latter plays out as fact, we will probably never hear about it.
 
The guy shouldn’t have attempted to flee. He shouldn’t have struggled. But, there just isn’t any reason that a traffic stop should end in death. It will be even more tragic if they find out it was a clerical goof and the car had been correctly registers, and the plate was good. It wasn’t like the car was going anywhere.
You can’t unequivocally say there “isn’t any reason that a traffic stop should end in death”. There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop. The term drives me crazy. Every encounter is different with a lot of unknown.
 
2nd degree murder charge for the officer.

 
2nd degree murder charge for the officer.

In!!!
 
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