Fed-up with BIG_TEN WBB officiating. (pretty long, sorry!)

r448chlpo

All-Conference
Mar 8, 2017
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Powell, Ohio
I am angry! I am guessing calling the conference to complaint is a big waste of time so I am shouting from the soap-box, 21st century style! As is said, "somebody ought to do something!"
Comments are being made about certain coaches behavior and rightfully so. However, the root of the problem is the officiating!
There are basically two types of teams; finesse teams and physical teams. Every team is somewhere on the continuum which divides the two styles. All regular followers of Big Ten teams know the style of play which follows a particular coach. There are your Ohio States, your Michigan States and your Marylands and, then, there are your Iowa's. After watching a couple games in the last two weeks (you can guess which two, in particular), I am angered by the quality officiating which I have seen. (OK, we lost both games but that does not mean I am wrong to complain!) BTW, what I have said is no great revelation to most readers here!!!
It is often said that players need to adjust their play to the type of game the referees are calling. This truly is part of the game. However, two other things are equally true and this is where poor officiating comes into play. First and foremost, there are rules which are to be applied. That is what makes the game. As practical matter, to some extent judgement enters into officiating- however, the discretion of any official should not dispense with a rule itself. This happens far too often in Big Ten WBB officiating. This is what pi##es me off! Crowd intimidation can be a cause, however, in the games I complain about... such clearly was not the case. Is the cause coach intimidation or ineptness? Hard to say, but it is extremely irritating!!!! Significant improvement has to be made!!!
Secondly, I submit that any officiating done fairly needs to obtain a "balance" between the two styles of play in order to maintain a level playing field for the completion. Without such balance, the style of called by the officials is determinative more often than not. "Let them play" games are won by the rough-house teams--- with (insert cough here!) injuries sometimes occurring! And," ticcy-tac" called games are won by finesse teams. Proof? Watch some replays of Big Ten games where the styles contrast significantly and see the direct correlation!
People say poor officiating is not outcome determinative. This is BS, most of the time. The first of the two games about which I complain was almost certainly determined by poor officiating, albeit a kick of the ball ALMOST as obvious as the kickoff at the start of a football game, aided in determining the outcome. The most recent game? We will not know because the referees did provide the appropriate balancing.
In regard to this last point, I hope the day comes when Bluder breaks the mode and recruits a "hard ass", " bruiser" to retaliate when players get routinely bumped to the ground, knocked off their dribble or are the receiving end of an elbow to the chest! I am not saying our finesse-oriented Hawkeye are totally free of such- however, like I said their two types of teams!
I realize this post would be generally applicable to any board in the conference. But, i am a Hawkeye fan, and i make it here!!!
 

sober_teacher

HR Legend
Mar 26, 2007
12,460
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For the most part, officiating is simply incompetent and generally it evens out over the course of a game. While it affects the outcomes of games, there’s truly only a handful of games where I’d agree the officials absolutely changed the outcome of a game. The infamous Outback bowl vs Florida, BTT vs Sparty and at Rutgers this year with that last-second foul on Keegan.
 
Feb 25, 2008
51,296
23,801
113
I am angry! I am guessing calling the conference to complaint is a big waste of time so I am shouting from the soap-box, 21st century style! As is said, "somebody ought to do something!"
Comments are being made about certain coaches behavior and rightfully so. However, the root of the problem is the officiating!
There are basically two types of teams; finesse teams and physical teams. Every team is somewhere on the continuum which divides the two styles. All regular followers of Big Ten teams know the style of play which follows a particular coach. There are your Ohio States, your Michigan States and your Marylands and, then, there are your Iowa's. After watching a couple games in the last two weeks (you can guess which two, in particular), I am angered by the quality officiating which I have seen. (OK, we lost both games but that does not mean I am wrong to complain!) BTW, what I have said is no great revelation to most readers here!!!
It is often said that players need to adjust their play to the type of game the referees are calling. This truly is part of the game. However, two other things are equally true and this is where poor officiating comes into play. First and foremost, there are rules which are to be applied. That is what makes the game. As practical matter, to some extent judgement enters into officiating- however, the discretion of any official should not dispense with a rule itself. This happens far too often in Big Ten WBB officiating. This is what pi##es me off! Crowd intimidation can be a cause, however, in the games I complain about... such clearly was not the case. Is the cause coach intimidation or ineptness? Hard to say, but it is extremely irritating!!!! Significant improvement has to be made!!!
Secondly, I submit that any officiating done fairly needs to obtain a "balance" between the two styles of play in order to maintain a level playing field for the completion. Without such balance, the style of called by the officials is determinative more often than not. "Let them play" games are won by the rough-house teams--- with (insert cough here!) injuries sometimes occurring! And," ticcy-tac" called games are won by finesse teams. Proof? Watch some replays of Big Ten games where the styles contrast significantly and see the direct correlation!
People say poor officiating is not outcome determinative. This is BS, most of the time. The first of the two games about which I complain was almost certainly determined by poor officiating, albeit a kick of the ball ALMOST as obvious as the kickoff at the start of a football game, aided in determining the outcome. The most recent game? We will not know because the referees did provide the appropriate balancing.
In regard to this last point, I hope the day comes when Bluder breaks the mode and recruits a "hard ass", " bruiser" to retaliate when players get routinely bumped to the ground, knocked off their dribble or are the receiving end of an elbow to the chest! I am not saying our finesse-oriented Hawkeye are totally free of such- however, like I said their two types of teams!
I realize this post would be generally applicable to any board in the conference. But, i am a Hawkeye fan, and i make it here!!!
Women's basketball in general is poorly officiated, which is quite astounding given that the general pushback for the men is that the game is so fast now that it can be hard for these refs to truly keep up with all the action on the floor.

Honestly, I wonder what a fourth floor ref would bring to the game on the men's side (and no, fewer refs is NOT the way to go, especially at the higher levels). You can have one ref at each corner, working their "quad" of the floor and it would help to keep the other refs from getting into compromising positions (i.e. being out of position/guessing or anticipating).

But back to the women.

No, the game is not nearly fast enough on the Women's side that there should be any excuse for the amount of bullsh** they let go/miss. There were so many travels that went uncalled yesterday in the IA/Mary game it became a joke. Clark had two or three in one possession.

That's when you know the refs don't give a f*** and just want to get out of there, and if you don't think that's a prevailing mentality, well then you've never spoken to a college official before...............

Women's officiating is embarrassing across the board and it's something that the NCAA, or whoever is in control of this, needs to start taking more seriously, instead of shrugging their shoulders and retorting "what would you have us do?" back to the public.
 

kceasthawk

HR Legend
Nov 5, 2016
11,156
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For the most part, officiating is simply incompetent and generally it evens out over the course of a game. While it affects the outcomes of games, there’s truly only a handful of games where I’d agree the officials absolutely changed the outcome of a game. The infamous Outback bowl vs Florida, BTT vs Sparty and at Rutgers this year with that last-second foul on Keegan.
While I'd agree, that right there is one HELL of a problem. That game at Rutgers could go along way in deciding tourney seeding if both teams get in, not to mention seeding for the BTT. People act like just effecting a game or two isn't a big deal, but in the end that could be all the difference not only in seeding but if a team even gets in the tourney.
 

SchwartzUndGold

Scout Team
Nov 20, 2019
95
131
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I've never watched much women's basketball and the officiating is one of the reasons. I don't know if the job pays enough to attract more individuals to become an official or if the rules that women use make for inconsistency.
 

kceasthawk

HR Legend
Nov 5, 2016
11,156
12,326
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Women's basketball in general is poorly officiated, which is quite astounding given that the general pushback for the men is that the game is so fast now that it can be hard for these refs to truly keep up with all the action on the floor.

Honestly, I wonder what a fourth floor ref would bring to the game on the men's side (and no, fewer refs is NOT the way to go, especially at the higher levels). You can have one ref at each corner, working their "quad" of the floor and it would help to keep the other refs from getting into compromising positions (i.e. being out of position/guessing or anticipating).

But back to the women.

No, the game is not nearly fast enough on the Women's side that there should be any excuse for the amount of bullsh** they let go/miss. There were so many travels that went uncalled yesterday in the IA/Mary game it became a joke. Clark had two or three in one possession.

That's when you know the refs don't give a f*** and just want to get out of there, and if you don't think that's a prevailing mentality, well then you've never spoken to a college official before...............

Women's officiating is embarrassing across the board and it's something that the NCAA, or whoever is in control of this, needs to start taking more seriously, instead of shrugging their shoulders and retorting "what would you have us do?" back to the public.
I guess my concern with the extra official, is it would just be one more "cook in the kitchen", and frankly that can't seem to find quality guys now. No matter how many refs you have the frustrating part is you can have a ref a few feet away, right in front of the play, and he DOESN'T make a call, then Joe whistle happy comes running up from thirty feet away, BEHIND the play with a much worse angle and calls a foul or infraction. Its fricken frustrating. Now if they could only make calls in their quad I guess, but I'm not sure they could do that or that it would ever happen.
 

waterboy4582

HR All-American
Gold Member
Nov 14, 2007
4,338
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cedar rapids
Women's basketball in general is poorly officiated, which is quite astounding given that the general pushback for the men is that the game is so fast now that it can be hard for these refs to truly keep up with all the action on the floor.

Honestly, I wonder what a fourth floor ref would bring to the game on the men's side (and no, fewer refs is NOT the way to go, especially at the higher levels). You can have one ref at each corner, working their "quad" of the floor and it would help to keep the other refs from getting into compromising positions (i.e. being out of position/guessing or anticipating).

But back to the women.

No, the game is not nearly fast enough on the Women's side that there should be any excuse for the amount of bullsh** they let go/miss. There were so many travels that went uncalled yesterday in the IA/Mary game it became a joke. Clark had two or three in one possession.

That's when you know the refs don't give a f*** and just want to get out of there, and if you don't think that's a prevailing mentality, well then you've never spoken to a college official before...............

Women's officiating is embarrassing across the board and it's something that the NCAA, or whoever is in control of this, needs to start taking more seriously, instead of shrugging their shoulders and retorting "what would you have us do?" back to the public.
Why? Do the 1500 in attendance care?
 
Jun 5, 2002
1,450
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Can't these women's baskeball fans post on the Women's Basketball forum? If such a forum doesn't exist, doesn't that tell these posters something about the level of interest?
If the men's basketball fans want to complain about the women's basketball fans posting on their board maybe the men's basketball fans should learn to make more noise than women's basketball fans.

Kind of sad that the women's fans have learned to be so much louder than the men's fans with much fewer numbers.
 

moondog24

HR All-State
Oct 31, 2009
904
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We are season ticket holders for U of Arizona and attend all of their home games and watch all of their away games either online or on TV -- We do watch the Iowa games whenever possible. It is our opinion that Big Ten Officials are more consistent than their counterparts in the PAC-12. Officials in the PAC-12 seem to anticipate contact and blow their whistles when there was no foul. What makes it worse is when the play is replayed on the jumbotron and it clearly shows no foul. Play in the PAC-12 is a bit more physical than the Big Ten -- honestly I would rather see Big Ten officials than PAC-12 officials. The Women's Game has evolved and athletes are faster and stronger than ever and whenever every incidental contact which has no bearing of play is called, it is hard to get a rhythm on the court.
 

isuisshit

All-Conference
Sep 19, 2021
472
689
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For the most part, officiating is simply incompetent and generally it evens out over the course of a game. While it affects the outcomes of games, there’s truly only a handful of games where I’d agree the officials absolutely changed the outcome of a game. The infamous Outback bowl vs Florida, BTT vs Sparty and at Rutgers this year with that last-second foul on Keegan.
don't forget the OG of horrible refs........jim bain
 

hawkguy77

HR All-American
Aug 4, 2009
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For the most part, officiating is simply incompetent and generally it evens out over the course of a game. While it affects the outcomes of games, there’s truly only a handful of games where I’d agree the officials absolutely changed the outcome of a game. The infamous Outback bowl vs Florida, BTT vs Sparty and at Rutgers this year with that last-second foul on Keegan.
I would add the no-call on the blatant travel in the PSU game.
 

jberesford

HR MVP
Dec 1, 2001
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For the most part, officiating is simply incompetent and generally it evens out over the course of a game. While it affects the outcomes of games, there’s truly only a handful of games where I’d agree the officials absolutely changed the outcome of a game. The infamous Outback bowl vs Florida, BTT vs Sparty and at Rutgers this year with that last-second foul on Keegan.
Yep Iowa got hosed big time in those examples. If I had to pick 3 that's the exact trio I would have chosen. There's some solace, but very little, in the fact that things changed because of them. The power 5 schools agreed to no longer using non p5 referees (conference USA in this case) in bowl games because of that. TV Teddy never did another Iowa basketball game because of that Big Ten tourney game. (though he did do an exhibition game a few years ago). Courtney Green directly caused Iowa to lose that game against Rutgers. Maybe it would have happened anyways, but he guaranteed it. That one is very recent, but hopefully that guy never does a Hawkeye game again, and ideally never does a Big Ten game again.
 
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BubsFinn

HR Legend
Nov 20, 2004
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Yep Iowa got hosed big time in those examples. If I had to pick 3 that's the exact trio I would have chosen. There's some solace, but very little, in the fact that things changed because of them. The power 5 schools agreed to no longer using non p5 referees (conference USA in this case) in bowl games because of that. TV Teddy never did another Iowa basketball game because of that Big Ten tourney game. (though he did do an exhibition game a few years ago). Courtney Green directly caused Iowa to lose that game against Rutgers. Maybe it would have happened anyways, but he guaranteed it. That one is very recent, but hopefully that guy never does a Hawkeye game again, and ideally never does a Big Ten game again.
The Iowa-Florida Outback Bowl was a big factor in the bowls using Power 5 officials, but I think the Nebraska-Michigan Alamo Bowl probably had a bigger impact. That was the worst officiated college game I had ever seen, until a few days later when Iowa took the field against Florida and the C-USA refs.
Officiating in general is never at the same level as the competition it is covering. From Little League to the Olympics, officiating is never good enough.
 
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retrodent

HR MVP
Dec 18, 2001
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Women's basketball in general is poorly officiated, which is quite astounding given that the general pushback for the men is that the game is so fast now that it can be hard for these refs to truly keep up with all the action on the floor.

Honestly, I wonder what a fourth floor ref would bring to the game on the men's side (and no, fewer refs is NOT the way to go, especially at the higher levels). You can have one ref at each corner, working their "quad" of the floor and it would help to keep the other refs from getting into compromising positions (i.e. being out of position/guessing or anticipating).

But back to the women.

No, the game is not nearly fast enough on the Women's side that there should be any excuse for the amount of bullsh** they let go/miss. There were so many travels that went uncalled yesterday in the IA/Mary game it became a joke. Clark had two or three in one possession.

That's when you know the refs don't give a f*** and just want to get out of there, and if you don't think that's a prevailing mentality, well then you've never spoken to a college official before...............

Women's officiating is embarrassing across the board and it's something that the NCAA, or whoever is in control of this, needs to start taking more seriously, instead of shrugging their shoulders and retorting "what would you have us do?" back to the public.
I hate it when refs out of their quad make a call when they obviously did not actually see it— just assume
 

ssckelley

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Oct 11, 2021
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It‘s all about the money. Top officials are in the NBA, it pays the most, then you’ve got men’s college basketball as it pays decent, officiating college women’s games probably doesn’t pay much better than high school games. The amount of money you pay attracts better officials.

There is a HUGE shortage in officiating right now. You really feel it in the high school ranks as schools have to double up their varsity boys and girls games so they can use the same officials for both, plus the JV games. Smaller pool of officials means a smaller pool for the NCAA to recruit officials from.
 

jberesford

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Dec 1, 2001
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The Iowa-Florida Outback Bowl was a big factor in the bowls using Power 5 officials, but I think the Nebraska-Michigan Alamo Bowl probably had a bigger impact. That was the worst officiated college game I had ever seen, until a few days later when Iowa took the field against Florida and the C-USA refs.
Officiating in general is never at the same level as the competition it is covering. From Little League to the Olympics, officiating is never good enough.
I could swear I had seen that cited as a reason for the change, but I had trouble locating anything. I guess in retrospect it was likely just implied by a sportswriter in an article that I had read many years ago. But wow, reading some of the old articles while looking for a source reminded me how EVERYBODY (Florida fans included) agreed it was a travesty of a game. I honestly don't remember that Michigan-Nebraska game. Perhaps I can find an anti-highlight reel on You Tube showing all the bad calls similar to the one that that exists for Outback Bowl.
 

sober_teacher

HR Legend
Mar 26, 2007
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The Iowa-Florida Outback Bowl was a big factor in the bowls using Power 5 officials, but I think the Nebraska-Michigan Alamo Bowl probably had a bigger impact. That was the worst officiated college game I had ever seen, until a few days later when Iowa took the field against Florida and the C-USA refs.
Officiating in general is never at the same level as the competition it is covering. From Little League to the Olympics, officiating is never good enough.

I could swear I had seen that cited as a reason for the change, but I had trouble locating anything. I guess in retrospect it was likely just implied by a sportswriter in an article that I had read many years ago. But wow, reading some of the old articles while looking for a source reminded me how EVERYBODY (Florida fans included) agreed it was a travesty of a game. I honestly don't remember that Michigan-Nebraska game. Perhaps I can find an anti-highlight reel on You Tube showing all the bad calls similar to the one that that exists for Outback Bowl.

Wouldn’t surprise me if it was a combination of both. Wasn’t it something like 30 penalties called in that Alamo Bowl between those two? And of course the utterly egregious ones missed in ours or that screwed us over. I’ll complain about officiating but rarely do I honestly believe they changed the outcome of a game. The incompetence usually evens out over the course of a game.