Federal Baseline Abortion Bill

binsfeldcyhawk2

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Schumer put forward a Abortion bill he knew would fail last month. Didn’t even consider the Collins/Murkowski bill.


That bill gets more votes but probably doesn’t reach 60 and is filibustered

Why not put forward a baseline Federal Bill that sets the limit a state can go to in regards to abortion restrictions to 12 weeks with exceptions for rape/incest and the life of the mother.

States would have the option to extend the 12 weeks to the original Roe standard or somewhere in between if their legislatures see fit. So states like California would keep their existing abortion laws as long as it kept within Roe

A bill like this has positives IMO

1. It probably gets 60+ votes

2. If any “moderate” R’s vote against they’d make themselves instantly vulnerable. Right now they can hide behind the Supreme Court Decision and Schumers original bill.

3. We can avoid years of tiresome abortion threads for years to come on HORT.
 

Moral

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1. It probably gets 60+ votes


oh-you-original.jpg
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

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It’d get 60….

If not turn around with another baseline bill to protect abortion in cases of rape/incest life of mother.

Get them on record voting against that….(this bill would pass tomorrow)

Won’t see either get brought up unfortunately.
 

Moral

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It’d get 60….

If not turn around with another baseline bill to protect abortion in cases of rape/incest life of mother.

Get them on record voting against that….(this bill would pass tomorrow)

Won’t see either get brought up unfortunately.

They would just make it not come to a vote. We have been watching reruns of how this is done for years now.

Also, I have a conspiracy theory that the Oh You meme guy is a guy I was in the Middle East with in the USAF. Literally every time I see it I think of that guy and end up going down a rabbit hole on Google.
 

BioHawk

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It’d get 60….

If not turn around with another baseline bill to protect abortion in cases of rape/incest life of mother.

Get them on record voting against that….(this bill would pass tomorrow)

Won’t see either get brought up unfortunately.
The only way this happens, and it is the only way, is if gets to be the middle of September and Republicans see that they are in line to lose 5-10 seats in the Senate because of this ruling. That will get enough of them to propose some sort of legislation to try to save their asses. Of course, I'm sure that if that is the case then the Democrats will not be in any hurry to bring it to a vote, or if they do it will be in the lame duck session.

But the Republicans aren't going to lose 5-10 seats so there is no reason to even consider that option.
 

nu2u

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1. It probably gets 60+ votes
Disagree. Christian zealots are feeling their oats now. Roe is in the rear view mirror for them now; they will be in no mood for concessions. Its on to rolling back LBGQT rights if they can and raging about other cultural issues.

Outside of Collins and Makowski, who are the other 8 GOP Senators who will stick their neck out for expanded federal abortion rights?
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

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The only way this happens, and it is the only way, is if gets to be the middle of September and Republicans see that they are in line to lose 5-10 seats in the Senate because of this ruling. That will get enough of them to propose some sort of legislation to try to save their asses. Of course, I'm sure that if that is the case then the Democrats will not be in any hurry to bring it to a vote, or if they do it will be in the lame duck session.

But the Republicans aren't going to lose 5-10 seats so there is no reason to even consider that option.
That’s reasonable…would like something along these lines put forward to see what happens though.

Lots of conflicting political interests probably prevent it from being brought up though….
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

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Disagree. Christian zealots are feeling their oats now. Roe is in the rear view mirror for them now; they will be in no mood for concessions. Its on to rolling back LBGQT rights if they can and raging about other cultural issues.

Outside of Collins and Makowski, who are the other 8 GOP Senators who will stick their neck out for expanded federal abortion rights?
The baseline bill I proposed is more restrictive than the Mississippi law that was before the court….it’s worth a shot IMO. Won’t happen but one can wish…
 

thewop

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The only way this happens, and it is the only way, is if gets to be the middle of September and Republicans see that they are in line to lose 5-10 seats in the Senate because of this ruling. That will get enough of them to propose some sort of legislation to try to save their asses. Of course, I'm sure that if that is the case then the Democrats will not be in any hurry to bring it to a vote, or if they do it will be in the lame duck session.

But the Republicans aren't going to lose 5-10 seats so there is no reason to even consider that option.
Yep, end of the day this is a small issue in terms of the election. Very few will vote based on this.
 
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Aardvark86

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The only way this happens, and it is the only way, is if gets to be the middle of September and Republicans see that they are in line to lose 5-10 seats in the Senate because of this ruling. That will get enough of them to propose some sort of legislation to try to save their asses. Of course, I'm sure that if that is the case then the Democrats will not be in any hurry to bring it to a vote, or if they do it will be in the lame duck session.

But the Republicans aren't going to lose 5-10 seats so there is no reason to even consider that option.
Nothing happens this summer. Aside from not enough people from both sides to sign on to that, Never underestimate the fundraising and electoral messaging power of the abortion issue in an election year.
 
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binsfeldcyhawk2

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Nothing happens this summer. Aside from not enough people from both sides to sign on to that, Never underestimate the fundraising and electoral messaging power of the abortion issue in an election year.
Unfortunately

It’s going to be interesting to see how this has moved the needle in generic R v D polling
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

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These are red herrings. Republicans know that 15 weeks is effectively an abortion ban which is why Mississippi chose that number for their abortion law.
Better tell Europe because almost every country is 15 weeks or less for elective abortions….
 
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Colonoscopy

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Better tell Europe because almost every country is 15 weeks or less for elective abortions….

I've often wondered if a scaled back Roe V Wade that occurred at a slightly later date it time would've stuck in a way the actual Roe V Wade didn't.

Too expansive, too soon. (but... what do you expect from a bunch of white men on the SCOTUS)
 

pjhawk

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Better tell Europe because almost every country is 15 weeks or less for elective abortions….
Wut?!? Pretty sure you're wrong here dude. It's by request across most of the EU (up to certain weekly limits in most countries but beyond 15 weeks--again, learn me if I'm wrong here) with medical personnel having the freedom to perform procedures for medical reasons up until the pregnancy comes to term.
 

Colonoscopy

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Wut?!? Pretty sure you're wrong here dude. It's by request across most of the EU (up to certain weekly limits in most countries but beyond 15 weeks--again, learn me if I'm wrong here) with medical personnel having the freedom to perform procedures for medical reasons up until the pregnancy comes to term.

Chart in here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law

Risk to health seems a bit ambiguous. Would have to see what is up with that. On request might average out to something like 16 weeks across country in Europe.

CountryRisk to lifeRisk to healthRapeFetal impairmentEconomic or socialOn request
23px-Flag_of_Singapore.svg.png
Singapore[332]
no limitno limit24 weeks24 weeks24 weeks24 weeks
23px-Flag_of_Slovakia.svg.png
Slovakia[333][334]
no limitpermitted[dd]12 weeksno limit12 weeks12 weeks
23px-Flag_of_Slovenia.svg.png
Slovenia[335]
no limitno limit10 weeks10 weeks10 weeks10 weeks
23px-Flag_of_the_Solomon_Islands.svg.png
Solomon Islands[336]
permittedprohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibited
23px-Flag_of_Somalia.svg.png
Somalia[337][338][de]
permitted[df]prohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibited
23px-Flag_of_South_Africa.svg.png
South Africa
no limit20 weeks20 weeksno limit20 weeks12 weeks
23px-Flag_of_South_Korea.svg.png
South Korea[dg]
permitted24 weeks24 weekspermittedpermitted[dh]permitted[dh]
23px-Flag_of_South_Ossetia.svg.png
South Ossetia[344][better source needed]
permittedpermittedpermittedpermittedpermittedpermitted
23px-Flag_of_South_Sudan.svg.png
South Sudan[345]
permittedprohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibited
23px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png
Spain[346]
22 weeks22 weeks14 weeks22 weeks[di]14 weeks14 weeks
23px-Flag_of_Sri_Lanka.svg.png
Sri Lanka[347]
permittedprohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibited
23px-Flag_of_Sudan.svg.png
Sudan[348]
no limitprohibited90 days[dj]prohibitedprohibitedprohibited
23px-Flag_of_Suriname.svg.png
Suriname
permitted[dk]prohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibited
23px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png
Sweden[350]
no limitno limit18 weeks18 weeks18 weeks18 weeks
15px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png
Switzerland[351]
no limitno limit12 weeks12 weeks12 weeks12 weeks
23px-Flag_of_Syria.svg.png
Syria[352]
permittedprohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibitedprohibited
23px-Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg.png
Taiwan[353]
permittedpermittedpermittedpermittedpermittedprohibited
 

pjhawk

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I've often wondered if a scaled back Roe V Wade that occurred at a slightly later date it time would've stuck in a way the actual Roe V Wade didn't.

Too expansive, too soon. (but... what do you expect from a bunch of white men on the SCOTUS)
No, no way. And what is a scaled back Roe v Wade anyway? "Too expansive too soon"? WTF?

You've heard of Planned Parenthood v Casey haven't you? And that was overturned as well by Alito.

The anti-abortion zealots want to ban abortion. They're also extremely unprincipled and are willing to use any kind of subterfuge they can to do it.
 

Colonoscopy

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No, no way. And what is a scaled back Roe v Wade anyway? "Too expansive too soon"? WTF?

You've heard of Planned Parenthood v Casey haven't you? And that was overturned as well by Alito.

The anti-abortion zealots want to ban abortion. They're also extremely unprincipled and are willing to use any kind of subterfuge they can to do it.

I said that from the perspective of generating backlash and having the ruling fall apart. (which happened)

I think on the intellectual side of the issue you can have a winning argument, good reasoning, but... if social mores aren't where they need to be, the idea won't take root properly and it'll get rejected. There's an art to progress.
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

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Wut?!? Pretty sure you're wrong here dude. It's by request across most of the EU (up to certain weekly limits in most countries but beyond 15 weeks--again, learn me if I'm wrong here) with medical personnel having the freedom to perform procedures for medical reasons up until the pregnancy comes to term.
Most of Europe is at 12 weeks for “elective” abortions
 

pjhawk

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Here's a Wikipedia link:

European Countries - Time Limits for Abortion on Demand[6][edit]​

The median time limit for abortion on demand in European countries is 12 weeks (i.e., abortion on demand is not legal after the first trimester)

Austria - First three months

Belgium - 12 weeks

Bulgaria - 12 weeks

Croatia - 10 weeks

Cyprus - 12 weeks

Czech Republic - 12 weeks

Denmark - 12 weeks

Estonia - 11 weeks

Finland - 12 weeks

France - 14 weeks

Germany - 12 weeks

Greece - 12 weeks

Hungary - 12 weeks

Ireland - 12 weeks

Italy - 12 weeks

Latvia - 12 weeks

Lithuania - 12 weeks

Luxembourg - 12 weeks

Malta - Abortion is prohibited. Doctors are required to attempt to save both the unborn child and the mother in the event of health complications.

Netherlands - 24 weeks

Poland - Abortion only available in cases of rape, incest or the health of the mother

Portugal - 10 weeks

Romania - 14 weeks

Slovakia - 12 weeks

Slovenia - 10 weeks

Spain - 14 weeks

Sweden - 18 weeks

United Kingdom - 24 weeks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abort...the European,having more extended time limits.