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Fines proposed for schools that violate ‘divisive concepts’ law

cigaretteman

HR King
May 29, 2001
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What a bunch of horseshit! A Solution in search of a problem:

Iowa schools are prohibited from teaching so-called “divisive concepts” under a state law passed in 2021, but now some Republican state lawmakers are looking to put some teeth on the law by adding fines for educators who violate it.
School districts would be fined between $500 and $5,000 if they are found in violation of the divisive concepts law, under a proposal that received its first legislative approval Wednesday from Iowa House Republicans at the Iowa Capitol.
The 2021 law defines divisive concepts and includes, for example, teaching students that moral character is determined by one’s race or sex, or that the United States and Iowa are fundamentally or systematically racist.

Steve Holt, a Republican from Denison, said the proposal to add fines is needed because he believes some school districts — he did not name any — are violating the divisive concepts law.

“It would appear to us that this hasn’t been complied with in some school districts, that it has been blatantly ignored in some school districts, or that they’re just simply trying to play word games and keep doing the same thing,” Holt said during Wednesday’s legislative hearing on the proposal.

Opponents of the proposal said it does not provide due process for educators who are accused of violating the divisive concepts law. The legislation states that once a complaint is lodged, the state education department will make a ruling; there is no provision for the school district or educator in question to state their case.

“There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of due process protections for the educators in this. It seems like it’s just: there’s an accusation, someone decides whether or not they did it, and that’s it,” said Keenan Crow, with the LGBTQ advocacy group One Iowa.


Education groups also raised concerns over a provision in the proposed legislation that would require the state education department to accept from students and parents reports of possible violations of the divisive concepts law, and require the department to compile those allegations and report them to lawmakers. Such a report would be a public document.
Michelle Johnson, with the Iowa Association of School Boards, said that requirement could produce a report that “suggests wrongdoing before anything is proven.”

And a spokesperson for the state education department said the department would not be able to handle the anticipated volume of reports of possible violations in an adequate time frame without adding more employees.
Holt and Rep. Skyler Wheeler, a Republican from Hull who chairs the House education committee, signed off on advancing the House Study Bill 112, which becomes eligible for consideration by the House education committee. Holt said he is cognizant of some of the concerns raised, and signaled a willingness to address some of them in the bill.

School transparency​

School districts also would be required to publish classroom curriculum and library materials online, and have in place a method for parents to ask for the removal of those materials under another bill advanced Wednesday by House Republicans.

House File 5 is similar to the House’s proposed school transparency legislation from last year. Majority Republicans wound up not passing any bills on the topic because the Republican-controlled Senate and House could not agree.

 
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New York has a law that all schools must teach CRT and related concepts, are you equally disturbed by that rule?https://nypost.com/2023/01/31/suny-...lass-mandatory-for-graduation-at-all-schools/

Yes I am. I dont think govt should be in the business of dictating what should and should not be discussed in college.


I had liberal TA's in some of the areas like Lit and Poly Sci. But I also had some conservative ones in things like economics...and we had lively debates in classes at times. I disagreed with people extensively and some ideas and concepts....but I DONT WANT TO BAN THEM.....WHAT KIND OF INSANE COMMIE CRAP ARE YOU PEOPLE DOING?
 
Yes I am. I dont think govt should be in the business of dictating what should and should not be discussed in college.


I had liberal TA's in some of the areas like Lit and Poly Sci. But I also had some conservative ones in things like economics...and we had lively debates in classes at times. I disagreed with people extensively and some ideas and concepts....but I DONT WANT TO BAN THEM.....WHAT KIND OF INSANE COMMIE CRAP ARE YOU PEOPLE DOING?
I somewhat get the clamp down on high school, but yes in College I think we should be challenging all beliefs and forcing people to research and defend their stances. Now if a teacher refuses to accept any argument on why guns should be allowed or why immigration controls should be heightened and fails a student for holding them, then I agree that's a problem. But they should be allowed to challenge them, force them to at least understand other ideas as well. The same is true of liberal ideals. And I did have both conservative and liberal instructors when I was in school.
 
Maybe if the left hadn't gone berserk on identity topics for the last half decade this wouldn't have happened. At a very high level this feels like a series of overreactions.

(all mediated by America's insane social/media political culture)
The “left” haven’t controlled much in Iowa for the past 10 years, partner. This “backlash” is coming from the Christian coalition right which is chock full of Republicans and Evangelical nabobs who feel they have been persecuted every since Iowa became a state.
God damn it...I have religious freedom too! I am promised freedom FROM religion! Where are my rights? Where is my protection? It’s a damned 2-way Street!
 
I somewhat get the clamp down on high school, but yes in College I think we should be challenging all beliefs and forcing people to research and defend their stances. Now if a teacher refuses to accept any argument on why guns should be allowed or why immigration controls should be heightened and fails a student for holding them, then I agree that's a problem. But they should be allowed to challenge them, force them to at least understand other ideas as well. The same is true of liberal ideals. And I did have both conservative and liberal instructors when I was in school.

Problem I have is that “divisive topics” is such a vague term. It can basically mean almost anything.
 
Problem I have is that “divisive topics” is such a vague term. It can basically mean almost anything.
oh, I absolutely hate these laws. DeSantis here in FL is king of putting out vague bills that he can then use to do whatever he wants. And of course divisive concepts only means things that Republicans disagree with. If a teacher teaches that everyone should be allowed to conceal carry or that we should build a wall, I'm sure that wouldn't be divisive.
 
oh, I absolutely hate these laws. DeSantis here in FL is king of putting out vague bills that he can then use to do whatever he wants. And of course divisive concepts only means things that Republicans disagree with. If a teacher teaches that everyone should be allowed to conceal carry or that we should build a wall, I'm sure that wouldn't be divisive.
A lot of is legislation is designed to pick at the scab and prevent healing. Nothing more....nothing less.
 
The stupidest part is that its self defeating of course. As is much they do. The Red State Universities will lose out consistently on the best faculty to the Blue State ones with more academic freedom and likely pay as well.
 
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Maybe if that girl had not dressed so sexy she wouldn't have gotten raped.
or, if you live in Loudoun county, maybe if that boy hadn't dressed so sexy, he wouldn't have raped her.


TBC: All of these culture/content war laws are just stupid.
 
The stupidest part is that its self defeating of course. As is much they do. The Red State Universities will lose out consistently on the best faculty to the Blue State ones with more academic freedom and likely pay as well.

Not just universities, k-12 teachers will be less likely to want to teach in states where they’re not sure what is allowed.

Nothing in that article refers to any requirement to "teach CRT".

MTG in a hearing yesterday basically equated CRT with diversity programs. For cons, they just lump anything they don’t like as “woke” or CRT.
 
tumblr_mmmztcC1a81rcy99do1_r1_500.gif
 
Nothing in that article refers to any requirement to "teach CRT".
You are either the thickest nut I've ever been exposed to, or you didn't read the article because that is EXACTLY what the rule states. “Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Act” IS CRT. You say tomato and I say tomato, but it is the exact same fruit.
 
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You are either the thickest nut I've ever been exposed to, or you didn't read the article because that is EXACTLY what the rule states. “Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Act” IS CRT. You say tomato and I say tomato, but it is the exact same fruit.

Uhh no its not. DIE is just trying to make sure underrepresented groups get to participate in things.

CRT is a theory on systemic racism.
 
....and we should NEVER teach what "communism" and "socialism" are in schools!!!

Kids never need to learn what those things actually ARE. They just need to know they are "Bad", and anyone accused of them is also "Bad"....

👀
Now you are supporting communism, Joes Place, you never disappoint. At least your honest about your hate for anything American.
 
Now you are supporting communism, Joes Place, you never disappoint. At least your honest about your hate for anything American.

Stating a topic should be taught does not equal supporting it.

I support discussing Hitler when the 20s, 30s and 40s comes up. Does that mean I support Nazis?

How does one discuss the Cold War without explaining communism?
 
How?

How is teaching kids about economic systems "supporting" those systems?
Should they NOT understand what communism/socialism actually are? And what they are not?
Personally, I think this is a silly rhetorical skirmish, but I would note with some confidence that most public school teachers are pretty much unqualified to understand, let alone teach, what socialism and communism are, either in theory or in execution.
 
Personally, I think this is a silly rhetorical skirmish
No

It's not.

It's about preventing kids from learning basic knowledge. And communism/socialism are not difficult subjects. Except that they are intertwined with autocracy, because they are typically a means of maintaining autocratic control .
 
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What a bunch of horseshit! A Solution in search of a problem:

Iowa schools are prohibited from teaching so-called “divisive concepts” under a state law passed in 2021, but now some Republican state lawmakers are looking to put some teeth on the law by adding fines for educators who violate it.
School districts would be fined between $500 and $5,000 if they are found in violation of the divisive concepts law, under a proposal that received its first legislative approval Wednesday from Iowa House Republicans at the Iowa Capitol.
The 2021 law defines divisive concepts and includes, for example, teaching students that moral character is determined by one’s race or sex, or that the United States and Iowa are fundamentally or systematically racist.

Steve Holt, a Republican from Denison, said the proposal to add fines is needed because he believes some school districts — he did not name any — are violating the divisive concepts law.

“It would appear to us that this hasn’t been complied with in some school districts, that it has been blatantly ignored in some school districts, or that they’re just simply trying to play word games and keep doing the same thing,” Holt said during Wednesday’s legislative hearing on the proposal.

Opponents of the proposal said it does not provide due process for educators who are accused of violating the divisive concepts law. The legislation states that once a complaint is lodged, the state education department will make a ruling; there is no provision for the school district or educator in question to state their case.

“There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of due process protections for the educators in this. It seems like it’s just: there’s an accusation, someone decides whether or not they did it, and that’s it,” said Keenan Crow, with the LGBTQ advocacy group One Iowa.


Education groups also raised concerns over a provision in the proposed legislation that would require the state education department to accept from students and parents reports of possible violations of the divisive concepts law, and require the department to compile those allegations and report them to lawmakers. Such a report would be a public document.
Michelle Johnson, with the Iowa Association of School Boards, said that requirement could produce a report that “suggests wrongdoing before anything is proven.”

And a spokesperson for the state education department said the department would not be able to handle the anticipated volume of reports of possible violations in an adequate time frame without adding more employees.
Holt and Rep. Skyler Wheeler, a Republican from Hull who chairs the House education committee, signed off on advancing the House Study Bill 112, which becomes eligible for consideration by the House education committee. Holt said he is cognizant of some of the concerns raised, and signaled a willingness to address some of them in the bill.

School transparency​

School districts also would be required to publish classroom curriculum and library materials online, and have in place a method for parents to ask for the removal of those materials under another bill advanced Wednesday by House Republicans.

House File 5 is similar to the House’s proposed school transparency legislation from last year. Majority Republicans wound up not passing any bills on the topic because the Republican-controlled Senate and House could not agree.

if its "A Solution in search of a problem" why do you care? its not going to matter if it's not a problem.
 
You don’t see how this will narrow what teachers will want to try in classrooms just because they’re concerned about getting in trouble?
why would they need to "try" anything? There's standard curriculum right? How divisive can it be to teach to the lesson plan?
 
why would they need to "try" anything? There's standard curriculum right? How divisive can it be to teach to the lesson plan?

You don’t think innovation has any room in education? Teachers can’t try new things with technology?

Not to mention the tried and true method of classroom discussions to stimulate critics thinking. Anyone who has ever set foot in a classroom knows there’s no one “right” way to teach a lesson. And with kids overwhelmingly online, and don’t read or consume information the way you or I did when we were young, that means the traditional methods of teaching aren’t sufficient.

Can an English teacher discuss the possible anti-Semitic character of Shakespeare’s Shylock from I believe Othello? How do history teachers cover the civil rights movement without discussing racism?

Bottom line: who gets to decide what topics are divisive?
 
You don’t think innovation has any room in education? Teachers can’t try new things with technology?

Not to mention the tried and true method of classroom discussions to stimulate critics thinking. Anyone who has ever set foot in a classroom knows there’s no one “right” way to teach a lesson. And with kids overwhelmingly online, and don’t read or consume information the way you or I did when we were young, that means the traditional methods of teaching aren’t sufficient.

Can an English teacher discuss the possible anti-Semitic character of Shakespeare’s Shylock from I believe Othello? How do history teachers cover the civil rights movement without discussing racism?

Bottom line: who gets to decide what topics are divisive?
I guess what I'd say to that is, if you don't like it, you can always home school your kid or a private school. That's been the answer to the conservatives for years.
 
I guess what I'd say to that is, if you don't like it, you can always home school your kid or a private school. That's been the answer to the conservatives for years.

Even if that’s a realistic option for most kids (it’s not), how does that address the problem?

Banning “divisive topics” is effectively censorship/cancel culture.
 
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Even if that’s a realistic option for most kids (it’s not), how does that address the problem?

Banning “divisive topics” is effectively censorship/cancel culture.
this feels so familiar... just the shoe appears to be on the other foot.
 
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