First party to the middle wins...

[ExcellentBread]

Ranked choice voting.
Campaign finance reform.

Do these two things and another major party will be born. Republican Party is aging and covid is still cutting into our average lifespan. Most young people are independent but lean democrat. Gen Z and Millenials overwhelmingly want a strong central government to tackle issues; gen x is split and boomers and silent Gen side strongly with the Republican philosophy.

Dems don’t even have to change philosophy and they will inherit power with each election. Hell, Texas will turn blue within the next few cycles. If the Democratic Party didn’t fight tooth and nail to keep establishment politics and their corporate protections they would already control all branches. If you have campaign finance reform you don’t have Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton.

 

[ThorneStockton]

There are some embarrassing election deniers among Republicans and Republican candidates. One is too many, and unfortunately there are plenty more than one. But you are seeing more than there are. Walker doesn't deny the election...

View embedded media

Give credit where credit is due, acknowledging that Biden won in Georgia is better than claiming otherwise. Of course back when he was trying to win the Republican nomination and referring to the election as a whole, versus just in Georgia, he was a bit different.

“I’m not saying the president—but everyone knows that something happened in the election.”

“But in that instance right there, I said, ‘Guys, there’s people that they’re unhappy with the election. Do you know what happened? I think something happened. I don’t know what it was—but something happened because people are angry,”

“something went on in the election,”

“I can guarantee you, Joe Biden didn’t get 50 million people voting for him. But yet people think that he’s won this election.”

“Country wide election fraud.”

“To be the man, you gotta beat the man, not CHEAT the man.”

Walker said he wanted Trump to get to the bottom of “who stole this election.”



Walker said on Twitter in December that Georgia should refuse to certify Biden’s victory there because of “serious Election Fraud,” asking in a video “how can we certify something that we know is not right.” In another tweet in November, Walker wrote that “people playing with this election need to be punished for breaking the law.”



“Anyone using HAMMER SCORECARD to alter voting in our America election should be prosecuted.”




Of course on one had, it's hard to hold up Walker as an example given his mental disabilities/difficulties, but on the other hand, he's still mainstream GOP despite those issues.

 

[Nole Lou]

Give credit where credit is due, acknowledging that Biden won in Georgia is better than claiming otherwise. Of course back when he was trying to win the Republican nomination and referring to the election as a whole, versus just in Georgia, he was a bit different.

“I’m not saying the president—but everyone knows that something happened in the election.”

“But in that instance right there, I said, ‘Guys, there’s people that they’re unhappy with the election. Do you know what happened? I think something happened. I don’t know what it was—but something happened because people are angry,”

“something went on in the election,”

“I can guarantee you, Joe Biden didn’t get 50 million people voting for him. But yet people think that he’s won this election.”

“Country wide election fraud.”

“To be the man, you gotta beat the man, not CHEAT the man.”

Walker said he wanted Trump to get to the bottom of “who stole this election.”

View embedded media

Walker said on Twitter in December that Georgia should refuse to certify Biden’s victory there because of “serious Election Fraud,” asking in a video “how can we certify something that we know is not right.” In another tweet in November, Walker wrote that “people playing with this election need to be punished for breaking the law.”

View embedded media

“Anyone using HAMMER SCORECARD to alter voting in our America election should be prosecuted.”

View embedded media

Of course on one had, it's hard to hold up Walker as an example given his mental disabilities/difficulties, but on the other hand, he's still mainstream GOP despite those issues.

Oh, he's a horrible candidate for sure. And nominating horrible candidates might well cost Republicans the Senate in what should have been gimme. Walker, Masters, and even Oz (although I think he's performed pretty well, he's still trash), potentially just outrageous throwaways for Republicans.

Frankly, the Democrats in Congress and the Biden administration don't deserve to hold congress, but these Republican candidates don't deserve to win.

Truthfully, the Democrats nominated some real losers as well. I guess you'd have to question why anyone of any quality would be jumping into this particular political moment. If you could sit out 4-8 years, by God you'd have to.

 

[torbee]

Too bad neither are showing the slightest inclination in that direction. Massive self-own by both parties.

Must read here:

Overcoming the Democratic Party brand

Cliff notes...no matter how much the Democrats insist on this board that the Democrats are totally mainstream, they aren't convincing the public. Republicans are DEFINITELY considered extreme...but the Democrats equally so. And in fact since most people shade themselves center-right, they rate themselves further from the Democrats than the Republicans.

(Here's where we get a string of progressives insisting that somehow everyone is merely FOOLED into thinking the Democrats are extreme, despite progressives having captured every university, every major media outlet outside of Fox News, etc)

Which party blinks first? Do either?

I go back and forth on that. Sometimes I think the Democrats could shift so much damn easier, they will be the ones. I already saw it in my lifetime with Bill Clinton...the game plan is right there. They don't have a particular individual to overcome like the Republicans have.

On the flip side, maybe that makes it more difficult? The Democrats have been hijacked by more of a set of ideas than a person that they can theoretically just move beyond. They've already turned over their newsrooms, universities, foundations, campaign apparatus, etc to the shrill woke true believers, is that actually harder to dismantle than the Republicans band of idiots that have abandoned the vast majority of their principles?

My gut feeling is still that Democrats can still make the move center a little more smoothly should they choose to, because they don't actually have a single individual that can cause chaos. They just need the right person...but I'm not sure who that is.

For the nine billionth time, by global political standards, the American Democratic Party is a center-left, extremely moderate political party.

The fact the radical GOP has successfully marketed the lie that Democrats are “leftists” doesn’t make it true.

 

[anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r]

I love how there are a lot of calls for the Dems to be the ones to moderate….but fewer for the MAGA cult of the GOP….have most people just realized they won’t moderate?

 

[Jerome Silberman]

The middle of what? We have a series of realities overlapping each other that all have to be taken seriously because freedom of speech, or something like that.

 

[Gimmered]

Man, it would make it so easy then if Democrats would just stand up and say "Heck no, a 13 year old shouldn't get a mastectomy or puberty blockers. That idea is nuts."

It's the easiest thing in the world to solve. But Democrats on this board even struggle to say that.

Putting a mastectomy and puberty blockers on the same level has to be one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen on this subject.

 

[ThorneStockton]

Back to the original premise of the thread: Is there any reason to think if either party goes to the "center" (whatever you believe that to be) that it would actually be an effective strategy?

Now, - seemingly more than ever - perception is often far from reality. Let's say Democrats cooled off on some of their more progressive policy ideas, spoke less about progressive topics, you know closer to the "center". Does anyone think that Republicans and conservative media will suddenly treat them differently. The Dems will still be communists, they'll still be groomers, they'll still be dealing in child trafficking, they'll still be advocating for child sex change operations, they'll still be stealing elections, they'll still authoritarians, they'll still control the media to slander Republicans, they will still be anti-freedom and hate Patriots, etc.

That's because these claims don't have to be reflected in reality. It's perception, it's faith based, it's emotional. It's not about truth, it's about belief. Regardless of reality, the opposition is EXTREME.

A similar hypothetical could be crafted the opposite direction, the Republicans would still be labeled extreme.

The survey's findings shouldn't exactly be a surprise either, it's pretty well understood that we're in a fairly polarized and divided political landscape. Who is shocked that both parties are viewed as extreme? Republicans would certainly find Democrats to be extreme and the opposite is true as well. The people who don't identify as either R or D? It's pretty easy to just throw your hands up and say they both suck, both sides, they're the same, etc.

 

[mthawkeyes]

They just need to focus on one process at a time. They used to do this well. They slow walked items and we had a very deliberate move to the left. However after Obama won they suddenly felt they needed to make a massive left turn. Now, aside from some minor health care reform, they really didn't move to the left, but they talked it a lot more. The embrace of the progressive wing has allowed them to be branded as far left even when most of their policy that they work on isn't even truly left wing.

The Democrats' "shift to the left" on health care reform was to adopt a Republican governor's health care plan rather than single-payer like most of the rest of the developed world. The Republicans declared it socialism.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Healthcare reform = print money.

There was no tax increase or cuts to pay for the ACA.

 

[torbee]

The Democrats' "shift to the left" on health care reform was to adopt a Republican governor's health care plan rather than single-payer like most of the rest of the developed world. The Republicans declared it socialism.

Exactly.
Richard Nixon would be called a RINO and Eisenhowe a communist by today’s “mainstream” Republicans.

Meantime, the Democrats are predominantly capitalist friendly, corporate moderates compared to the vast majority of left-leaning political parties in most global democracies.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Give credit where credit is due, acknowledging that Biden won in Georgia is better than claiming otherwise. Of course back when he was trying to win the Republican nomination and referring to the election as a whole, versus just in Georgia, he was a bit different.

“I’m not saying the president—but everyone knows that something happened in the election.”

“But in that instance right there, I said, ‘Guys, there’s people that they’re unhappy with the election. Do you know what happened? I think something happened. I don’t know what it was—but something happened because people are angry,”

“something went on in the election,”

“I can guarantee you, Joe Biden didn’t get 50 million people voting for him. But yet people think that he’s won this election.”

“Country wide election fraud.”

“To be the man, you gotta beat the man, not CHEAT the man.”

Walker said he wanted Trump to get to the bottom of “who stole this election.”

View embedded media

Walker said on Twitter in December that Georgia should refuse to certify Biden’s victory there because of “serious Election Fraud,” asking in a video “how can we certify something that we know is not right.” In another tweet in November, Walker wrote that “people playing with this election need to be punished for breaking the law.”

View embedded media

“Anyone using HAMMER SCORECARD to alter voting in our America election should be prosecuted.”

View embedded media

Of course on one had, it's hard to hold up Walker as an example given his mental disabilities/difficulties, but on the other hand, he's still mainstream GOP despite those issues.

And there's the mic drop. A GOP candidate can say anything one day and the exact opposite the next and Republican voters just shrug One more time - they care about holding power with not a f'n clue what they want to do with it.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

The survey's findings shouldn't exactly be a surprise either, it's pretty well understood that we're in a fairly polarized and divided political landscape. Who is shocked that both parties are viewed as extreme? Republicans would certainly find Democrats to be extreme and the opposite is true as well. The people who don't identify as either R or D? It's pretty easy to just throw your hands up and say they both suck, both sides, they're the same, etc.

Your last is, quite simply, not "reflected in reality. It's perception, it's faith based, it's emotional. It's not about truth, it's about belief". The "both sides" BS is no better than what's occurring in each party as they look at the other. ANYONE who looks at the two major political parties in the United States and claims "they're the same" is honestly either an idiot or a liar and THEY are truly what's wrong with the country.

 

[Banditking]

Pretty much. Double whammy of:

- Believing that Obama victory was the fulfillment of "demographics as destiny", rather than the result of an excellent and very talented and charismatic candidate. Make no mistake, there were elements of the party that didn't believe a Republican could win a presidential election again.

- And then having an abhorrent foil in Trump, which it is almost impossible to look unhinged next to

Those things helped push an outsized amount of clout to some really loud and bad voices for the Democrats, and they're having a really hard time wrestling it back. I think some thought they had when Biden won the nomination, but that didn't work.

Well, I think one must also consider what the party wants. They believed demographics is destiny and promptly made a massive left turn. So, the core of dem doesn’t want to be moderate. The only thing holding them back from full on Soviet seems to be they might lose the vote. I agree with Elon. Split control is better.

 

[Banditking]

I'm not scared to get demonized by my own side because I don't really have one.

But at the same time I am somewhat scared of friends and family refusing to speak to me because I expressed the wrong opinion. Which is one of the reasons I kind of try to avoid political debates on FB where my friends and family can see that stuff.

Another reason is people are crazy and you never know when someone on FB is going to target you or your family for violence because of your wrong opinions.

A big thing that is helping the extremists is the less extreme people don't want to lose friends and family over politics and the extremists think that having dinner with someone who disagrees with them would be the same as having dinner with Hitler.

Yep. You are either crazy or progressive left if, as a non politician/career wonk/journalist you argue politics out in the open. This is true on academia. The only group that is comfortable expressing their view are progressive leftists and it’s a bully pulpit. They’re calling everyone else bigots and they have institutional/social power behind them to enforce.

 

[Banditking]

If he pulled the Dems to the center it never…ever…produced results with voters. Given the opportunity during relatively good times to continue with Clinton minus the charisma, voters said, “Nah, let’s go with that doofus from Texas”.

The idea that there’s some middle-of-the-road politician out there who could unite the country is hogwash. Why? Because the American people are f’n idiots. That’s how you get a reprehensible human being like Trump in the WH. And even after he spent four years demonstrating that he was far more disgusting and evil than anyone had suspected, he still got 74 million people to vote for him. Over an absolute CENTRIST like Biden. No matter how flawed Biden is, he is still so much better than Trump that they shouldn’t even exist in the same reality. Maybe they don’t.

And American voters will probably demonstrate again tomorrow just how idiotic they are when they hand state and federal control to a party that is a demonstrated threat to democracy. Don’t “both sides” that.

Biden had to withdraw from a presidential race in the 80s because he lied about his own background repeatedly and he plagiarized multiple speeches including someone else’s autobiography. He is a ridiculous person to be president. And has been a wet piece of paper resisting the far left tilt of the democrats.

 

[Banditking]

There is no equivalency between election denials and 1/6 and gender-affirming care. They’re not even close. Yes, those issues (and stuff like CRT) matter to some voters because they’ve been fed a steady diet of this garbage on FOX and RW media for a couple years now, but they should be way down on the list of voter concerns, if at all.

It’s just hard to take a party seriously when they talk ad nauseam about CRT and child sex changes but won’t even talk about gun control or blow off Jan 6 and election deniers as if those are Lib fantasies.

When Rand Paul or other republicans are labeled “election deniers” because they are opposed to changes in election rules “due to Covid” and they want voter id or whatever, that’s not “election denial.” That’s just another redefinition of a word to dupe morons. Same nonsense when Dems argue “voter suppression” for anything that requires any effort to vote.

dei in the dem implementation direction is a worse problem than 1/6. The latter delayed Congress for a couple of hours and looked little different than the summer protests/riots …just was less effective. The former has universities voting on whether to hire someone because they’re a white male against a to be determined urm they might find some time in the future and people feeling comfortable shouting down hallways “I need a Latina candidate for [insert job here].” Worse, we are teaching generations to treat people differently base on skin color and boobs. That can’t go wrong, right?

 

[Banditking]

Oh, he's a horrible candidate for sure. And nominating horrible candidates might well cost Republicans the Senate in what should have been gimme. Walker, Masters, and even Oz (although I think he's performed pretty well, he's still trash), potentially just outrageous throwaways for Republicans.

Frankly, the Democrats in Congress and the Biden administration don't deserve to hold congress, but these Republican candidates don't deserve to win.

Truthfully, the Democrats nominated some real losers as well. I guess you'd have to question why anyone of any quality would be jumping into this particular political moment. If you could sit out 4-8 years, by God you'd have to.

Look what the media and Dems did to Brett kavanaugh. You have to have some serious stones to run as gop Or affiliated with gop these days

 

[Banditking]

Exactly.
Richard Nixon would be called a RINO and Eisenhowe a communist by today’s “mainstream” Republicans.

Meantime, the Democrats are predominantly capitalist friendly, corporate moderates compared to the vast majority of left-leaning political parties in most global democracies.

Sure and jfk would be a Republican. Bill clinto would be a Republican. Nixon was pretty progressive.

 

[mthawkeyes]

Well, I think one must also consider what the party wants. They believed demographics is destiny and promptly made a massive left turn. So, the core of dem doesn’t want to be moderate. The only thing holding them back from full in Soviet is they might lose the vote.

BS. Still waiting for you to name a country to the right of the United States that you would actually want to live in. The fact is, ALL developed countries, most of whom have better outcomes in the health, education, and self-reported happiness of their people, are to the left of the U.S. in social and economic policies, and they aren't sacrificing individual freedoms. Yet here you are saying that any turn to the left to is communism, despite the fact that you have ZERO models of successful nations to the right of the U.S.

 

[Banditking]

BS. Still waiting for you to name a country to the right of the United States that you would actually want to live in. The fact is, ALL developed countries, most of whom have better outcomes in the health, education, and self-reported happiness of their people, are to the left of the U.S. in social and economic policies, and they aren't sacrificing individual freedoms. Yet here you are saying that any turn to the left to is communism, despite the fact that you have ZERO models of successful nations to the right of the U.S.

Many do in fact sacrifice individual freedoms. Take Germany as an example. Get an equivalent engineering job there. The disparity in earning between the American and German teams is pretty high. I wouldn’t want to live in any of Europe unless I was independently wealthy or already established very highly in my career. I’d consider it today in that regard in some places in the right circumstances. But I have a career that makes it easier to do that. I have many international European collaborators who would love to move here. It might have been nice to be born in Sweden, I suppose.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Yep. You are either crazy or progressive left if, as a non politician/career wonk/journalist you argue politics out in the open. This is true on academia. The only group that is comfortable expressing their view are progressive leftists and it’s a bully pulpit. They’re calling everyone else bigots and they have institutional/social power behind them to enforce.

Trust me it's a right wing problem as well. If you arn't fully on board the Trump train people have no problem calling you names and hurting your feelings.

My wife has family members refuse to speak with her because she doesn't like their cult leader.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Biden had to withdraw from a presidential race in the 80s because he lied about his own background repeatedly and he plagiarized multiple speeches including someone else’s autobiography. He is a ridiculous person to be president. And has been a wet piece of paper resisting the far left tilt of the democrats.

LOL...so how about telling us what "far left" policies have been enacted? What, exactly, do you consider "far left" and what has Biden done to empower it? Stop spouting buzz words. Be SPECIFIC.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

The problem is, the people “in the middle” have lives and families to care for and don’t have time to live on Twitter and going to rallies and arguing about mundane shit every waking moment of the day. The crazy fringe people do that and those are the folks most of the politicians are in constant contact with. So they “play to the rooms” they’re in.

I don't agree that it's not that they don't have time. It's more of the fact that they don't want to have their entire support system/friend group decided by who agrees with them politically.

That's especially tricky if you actually are in "the middle" or more accurately having some views that go along with the right and some that go along with the left.

Because look I could lose friends/family real fast by letting them know exactly what I think of Trump . . . My leftist friends/family might applaud and cheer me, until I they find out what I think about abortion and then they likely too would no longer want to speak to me.

So if I let the full spectrum of my political beliefs out there odds are that I'm left with very few friends and family willing to speak to me.

So around people I know. I think I'd rather just stay quiet, because odds are I end up with one side thinking I'm Stalin the other that I'm Mussolini.

 

[Nole Lou]

Back to the original premise of the thread: Is there any reason to think if either party goes to the "center" (whatever you believe that to be) that it would actually be an effective strategy?

Now, - seemingly more than ever - perception is often far from reality. Let's say Democrats cooled off on some of their more progressive policy ideas, spoke less about progressive topics, you know closer to the "center". Does anyone think that Republicans and conservative media will suddenly treat them differently. The Dems will still be communists, they'll still be groomers, they'll still be dealing in child trafficking, they'll still be advocating for child sex change operations, they'll still be stealing elections, they'll still authoritarians, they'll still control the media to slander Republicans, they will still be anti-freedom and hate Patriots, etc.

That's because these claims don't have to be reflected in reality. It's perception, it's faith based, it's emotional. It's not about truth, it's about belief. Regardless of reality, the opposition is EXTREME.

A similar hypothetical could be crafted the opposite direction, the Republicans would still be labeled extreme.

The survey's findings shouldn't exactly be a surprise either, it's pretty well understood that we're in a fairly polarized and divided political landscape. Who is shocked that both parties are viewed as extreme? Republicans would certainly find Democrats to be extreme and the opposite is true as well. The people who don't identify as either R or D? It's pretty easy to just throw your hands up and say they both suck, both sides, they're the same, etc.

Of course that's true, just like the Democrats called Mitt Romney a monster and said he would put black people in chains.

That's the job of the party to demonize their opponent. Neither party moving to the center would turn down the other party's rhetoric, but that's not the point at all.

The point is that voters rate both parties extreme and far from them politically, and would almost certainly tilt to the one that say, cut that distance in half.

 

[Banditking]

Trust me it's a right wing problem as well. If you arn't fully on board the Trump train people have no problem calling you names and hurting your feelings.

My wife has family members refuse to speak with her because she doesn't like their cult leader.

Sure. But,that’s a family dynamics issue. It’s not baked into work and school environments.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Of course that's true, just like the Democrats called Mitt Romney a monster and said he would put black people in chains.

That's the job of the party to demonize their opponent. Neither party moving to the center would turn down the other party's rhetoric, but that's not the point at all.

The point is that voters rate both parties extreme and far from them politically, and would almost certainly tilt to the one that say, cut that distance in half.

Having multiple parties and proportional representation would help a lot with that. If you have 9 opponents hard to demonize all 9 without sounding insane. On top of that you might have to form a coalition with some of them later on so demonizing wouldn't be in your best interests.

With 9 opponents you just simply have to lay out for the public your vision for the country and what you want to do in your term.

But we won't get there through single member district representation. We need a new constitution.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Sure. But,that’s a family dynamics issue. It’s not baked into work and school environments.

IDK I don't talk about politics at work because most of the people I work with are Trump supporters.

It's baked into everything. It just depends on where you are at and who you are with.

 

[Banditking]

LOL...so how about telling us what "far left" policies have been enacted? What, exactly, do you consider "far left" and what has Biden done to empower it? Stop spouting buzz words. Be SPECIFIC.

Sure. From White House chief of staff

“Taking to Politico, Klain said: “The president has delivered the largest economic recovery plan since Roosevelt, the largest infrastructure plan since [Dwight D] Eisenhower, the most judges confirmed since Kennedy, the second-largest healthcare bill since Johnson, and the largest climate change bill in history”

 

[mthawkeyes]

Many do in fact sacrifice individual freedoms. Take Germany as an example. Get an equivalent engineering job there. The disparity in earning between the American and German teams is pretty high. I wouldn’t want to live in any of Europe unless I was independently wealthy or already established very highly in my career. I’d consider it today in that regard in some places in the right circumstances. But I have a career that makes it easier to do that. I have many international European collaborators who would love to move here. It might have been nice to be born in Sweden, I suppose.

So you would rather be richer with a poorer country, even if it means the majority would be better off. I wish the GOP would just come out and say it that way.

Do you ever ask them how they can afford to pay off their student loans or afford health insurance on their low salaries? That must be really difficult.

 

[Banditking]

IDK I don't talk about politics at work because most of the people I work with are Trump supporters.

It's baked into everything. It just depends on where you are at and who you are with.

I don’t talk about politics at work. But the examples I gave earlier are real and from my work environment. And, people are very strident and loud about politics in my environment. Aggressively so.

 

[Banditking]

So you would rather be richer with a poorer country, even if it means the majority would be better off. I wish the GOP would just come out and say it that way.

Do you ever ask them how they can afford to pay off their student loans or afford health insurance on their low salaries? That must be really difficult.

I don’t have any student loans or trouble affording insurance either. And, consider that I’m dealing with their professional class. It’s apples to apples. I’m not talking to grocery baggers. You’re also talking dramatically smaller housing. I’d rather just pay my loans.

 

[Nole Lou]

For the nine billionth time, by global political standards, the American Democratic Party is a center-left, extremely moderate political party.

The fact the radical GOP has successfully marketed the lie that Democrats are “leftists” doesn’t make it true.

Even if that was stipulated, it doesn't change the dynamic much. Americans placed themselves slightly right of center. So if you slid the scale over so where people put today's Democrats was right smack in the center, people would be far right, and the Republicans would be...I don't know off the page.

It doesn't change the fact that people place both parties far from where they place themselves.

 

[mthawkeyes]

Sure. From White House chief of staff

“Taking to Politico, Klain said: “The president has delivered the largest economic recovery plan since Roosevelt, the largest infrastructure plan since [Dwight D] Eisenhower, the most judges confirmed since Kennedy, the second-largest healthcare bill since Johnson, and the largest climate change bill in history”

What about any of those is "far left"?

 

[torbee]

Even if that was stipulated, it doesn't change the dynamic much. Americans placed themselves slightly right of center. So if you slid the scale over so where people put today's Democrats was right smack in the center, people would be far right, and the Republicans would be...I don't know off the page.

It doesn't change the fact that people place both parties far from where they place themselves.

And that says a lot more about the power of marketing and messaging and the malleability of low-information voters than where our two parties actually exist on a Left-Right continuum.

Put a guy like Chuck Schumer in West Germany or Italy or Norway and he’d be correctly looked upon as a center-right corporatist technocrat.

Here in the US, the GOP has successfully labeled him a socialist. It’s absurd.

 

[mthawkeyes]

I don’t have any student loans or trouble affording insurance either. And, consider that I’m dealing with their professional class. It’s apples to apples. I’m not talking to grocery baggers.

But they must. If there is a significant difference in their earnings, it must be difficult for them to afford those things.

 

[Nole Lou]

Ok guys, we've solved this, turns out this was totally wrong and both parties are smack dab in the middle aligned with everyone. Good work LOL.

 

[Banditking]

But they must. If there is a significant difference in their earnings, it must be difficult for them to afford those things.

As you know, they don’t have school loans. They may buy private healthcare insurance. Not sure. Many of the better off in European nations do given the delays and other issues in the public healthcare systems.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I don’t talk about politics at work. But the examples I gave earlier are real and from my work environment. And, people are very strident and loud about politics in my environment. Aggressively so.

They are here too

 

[Banditking]

They are here too

Annoying, isn’t it?