So… I read those and I see massive spending errors (left) for social agenda (left) for climate and not including nuclear as the solution (left) with big tax increases (left). You see… center right?What about any of those is "far left"?
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So… I read those and I see massive spending errors (left) for social agenda (left) for climate and not including nuclear as the solution (left) with big tax increases (left). You see… center right?What about any of those is "far left"?
Annoying, isn’t it?
So maybe, given the support they have received from the state in education and healthcare, their lower earnings don't actually make them poorer? Maybe they should pull up the ladder like the Boomers did here in the U.S.As you know, they don’t have school loans. They may buy private healthcare insurance. Not sure. Many of the better off in European nations do given the delays and other issues in the public healthcare systems.
They are here too
Agee with you not to say much. But it’s important to look who is dominant where. And you have increasing progressive left cultural dominance in the power centers of our country.It is. . . . Look I don't blame you for being uncomfortable in a place dominated by people who have very different political views than you.
But there is a lot of implicit intimidation on both sides that prevent people who havn't ordered every aspect of their life by politics from speaking up.
I'd no more want to discuss my feelings on abortion with leftist friends/family than I would want to discuss my feelings on Trump with my right wing friends/family.
So as a person who is "in the middle" or more accurately has political views that match and oppose both parties I just don't say much because I want to keep people in my life.
Of course that makes both sides more extreme because everyone they know and talk to either agrees with them or avoids the subject.
No, they’re definitely poorer.So maybe, given the support they have received from the state in education and healthcare, their lower earnings don't actually make them poorer? Maybe they should pull up the ladder like the Boomers did here in the U.S.
And don't act like delays are only an issue in public healthcare systems. My teenager has developed exercise-induced asthma in the past few months. It's a two-and-a-half month wait to get an appointment with a pulmonologist.
Yeah, in general, every poll shows that Americans want the parties to be less extreme and more to the middle.
But as you can see on this thread...almost nobody that actually engages in politics wants to talk about how either party might get there AT ALL, nor will even acknowledge that they've drifted right/left. Merely that people got stupider when they lost, and then got smarter again somehow when they won, and then got dumber again that time they lost.
People that engage in politics for money, likes, hobby or lulz have zero interest in reducing polarization. You can't even start the conversation.
Yep. You. Can see it in this thread. Some on the left here are arguing we are a center right country with the standard being the world. Thus they’re merely trying to move us to the middle. Going to hard to find common ground with that. No one agrees on what the center is.The other problem that I think I have mentioned on HROT but not on this thread is the problem of what "moving to the middle" looks like.
Myself and a hardcore libertarian might both be seen as "being in the middle" but we would have polar opposite views on nearly every count of what that would look like.
So on top of the problems of getting there, the whole idea of there being a "middle" is often kind of vague.
Agee with you not to say much. But it’s important to look who is dominant where. And you have increasing progressive left cultural dominance in the power centers of our country.
I would love a third party to emerge. For the first time in my voting life I may abstain today.Unfortunately I think the only way to break it is for another legitimate third party to be created. And there isn't enough time and money for that to happen in our life times. So the people stuck in the middle have to swing the elections to one party, then the other.
Who plays at means/medians? Where did you get the data?Average salary of mechanical engineers
U.S.: $76,000
Germany: $62,000
Once you take out the needs for healthcare and repaying student loans (for most), how are they poorer?
It’s worse. It’s dictated by the feds.Do we. . . Remember rural voters get an outsized impact per person on the government due to the senate, gerrymandering, and the electoral college.
Some corporations might have "gone woke" . . . likely because they figure that is what sells.
glassdoor.comWho plays at means/medians? Where did you get the data?
Ok. But, that’s not the same thing as working at a fang type company who is collaborating internationally.glassdoor.com
Virtually all other developed nations have more social mobility than the United States.Ok. But, that’s not the same thing as working at a fang type company who is collaborating internationally.
the issue here to me is, if you are a high achiever or have that kind of ability/drive, where can you do well? America is a good place for those types.
The point is that voters rate both parties extreme and far from them politically, and would almost certainly tilt to the one that say, cut that distance in half.
I would argue "the middle" doesn't, hasn't and will never exist, but compromise amongst law makers is still on the table if that is what the people desire. Unfortunately that is going the way of the dodo.The other problem that I think I have mentioned on HROT but not on this thread is the problem of what "moving to the middle" looks like.
Myself and a hardcore libertarian might both be seen as "being in the middle" but we would have polar opposite views on nearly every count of what that would look like.
So on top of the problems of getting there, the whole idea of there being a "middle" is often kind of vague.
if a woman's life is at stake, why shouldn't abortion be legal if no other options are available. The 9th month abortion is another thing Republicans like to scream about that just really isn't an issue. By far the majority of abortions take place by week before week 16. Almost every abortion afterwards, almost everyone is health related either in relation to the Mother or the child.But I can point to plenty of Republicans who have said that. Should be all, but there are plenty.
Where are the Democrats breaking on gender theory or legal abortion through nine months?
Oh I agree. They should have just done it in that regard. The half step got them labeled as socialist although it really didn't do much at all. On actual policy they're still very centrist, but their talking points are all very leftist, at least as to what is allowed to get branded. So either be a leftist party and do major changes to show us how much better it is or be a centrist party and slowly make changes. This idea of talking about a lot of left wing things and then only doing very small changes doesn't work because it gets you labeled as socialist, but it doesn't actually give us any of the benefits of your big ideas. So either be centrist or leftist, but stop trying to play both sides.The Democrats' "shift to the left" on health care reform was to adopt a Republican governor's health care plan rather than single-payer like most of the rest of the developed world. The Republicans declared it socialism.
I would argue "the middle" doesn't, hasn't and will never exist, but compromise amongst law makers is still on the table if that is what the people desire. Unfortunately that is going the way of the dodo.
I would argue "the middle" doesn't, hasn't and will never exist, but compromise amongst law makers is still on the table if that is what the people desire. Unfortunately that is going the way of the dodo.
Just as I suspected - you claim ANYTHING done by the Democrats represents "far left" ideology. Kind of pathetic, really. I suppose when Trump was talking endlessly about "infrastructure week" you accused him of being far left.Sure. From White House chief of staff
“Taking to Politico, Klain said: “The president has delivered the largest economic recovery plan since Roosevelt, the largest infrastructure plan since [Dwight D] Eisenhower, the most judges confirmed since Kennedy, the second-largest healthcare bill since Johnson, and the largest climate change bill in history”
I have a theory that the most middle of all of the active politicians is Bernie Sanders. I base that on the popularity of his positions as it relates to polling. Say something like legalizing marijuana or removing money from politics, this both poll well into the majority of Americans regardless of party. The list goes on with Sanders in that way.
However, I believe the way the center, middle, moderate terms are actually used in practice are tools meant to make people self compromise and feel good about being a status quo identifying voter which really just works out with establishment politicians. Establishment politicians who also happen to be wildly unpopular and seem to hold unpopular and dated positions.
You can't drive them off their talking points with facts. Here's a fact, German engineers are not knocking down the door to move to the US and they could easily do so. The US is starved for engineers.Average salary of mechanical engineers
U.S.: $76,000
Germany: $62,000
Once you take out the needs for healthcare and repaying student loans (for most), how are they poorer?
Yes to the latter.Just as I suspected - you claim ANYTHING done by the Democrats represents "far left" ideology. Kind of pathetic, really. I suppose when Trump was talking endlessly about "infrastructure week" you accused him of being far left.
Here is what they used to rank social mobility. Most of this is irrelevant to social mobility.Virtually all other developed nations have more social mobility than the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index
Virtually all other developed nations have more social mobility than the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index
Dei, crt version, is increasingly demanded by feds and it is incentivized. Gov contracts to women owned businesses, urm owned businesses.The OP's problem is that he complains about actual laws and policies GOP candidates enact, but then blames Democratic politicians for diversity and equity policies adopted by private corporations and independent institutions. You see the problem here?
Sander is a populist. Ask people if they want to pay less taxes, have free healthcare, not have to pay student loans, get ubi, price controls on housing, increase wages for their demographic specifically, etc… you’re going to get popular support. That’s not a good definition of middle.I have a theory that the most middle of all of the active politicians is Bernie Sanders. I base that on the popularity of his positions as it relates to polling. Say something like legalizing marijuana or removing money from politics, this both poll well into the majority of Americans regardless of party. The list goes on with Sanders in that way.
However, I believe the way the center, middle, moderate terms are actually used in practice are tools meant to make people self compromise and feel good about being a status quo identifying voter which really just works out with establishment politicians. Establishment politicians who also happen to be wildly unpopular and seem to hold unpopular and dated positions.
Sander is a populist. Ask people if they want to pay less taxes, have free healthcare, not have to pay student loans, get ubi, price controls on housing, increase wages for their demographic specifically, etc… you’re going to get popular support. That’s not a good definition of middle.
Feelings? Wtf.Your argument is purely semantics, semantics that the establishment would be surely proud of. I was 100% expecting this exact reply. I super appreciate the totally expected reply that is a tool in the middling stockpile. You middling centrists can't define yourselves because you do it with feelings on a moving target.
The other problem that I think I have mentioned on HROT but not on this thread is the problem of what "moving to the middle" looks like.
Myself and a hardcore libertarian might both be seen as "being in the middle" but we would have polar opposite views on nearly every count of what that would look like.
So on top of the problems of getting there, the whole idea of there being a "middle" is often kind of vague.
Good grief. Aggrieved much? No idea how you survive in an an environment you apparently hate so deeply.When Rand Paul or other republicans are labeled “election deniers” because they are opposed to changes in election rules “due to Covid” and they want voter id or whatever, that’s not “election denial.” That’s just another redefinition of a word to dupe morons. Same nonsense when Dems argue “voter suppression” for anything that requires any effort to vote.
dei in the dem implementation direction is a worse problem than 1/6. The latter delayed Congress for a couple of hours and looked little different than the summer protests/riots …just was less effective. The former has universities voting on whether to hire someone because they’re a white male against a to be determined urm they might find some time in the future and people feeling comfortable shouting down hallways “I need a Latina candidate for [insert job here].” Worse, we are teaching generations to treat people differently base on skin color and boobs. That can’t go wrong, right?
Yep. But, you’re clearly a bigot by not acknowledging the current impacts of colonialism and current white supremacy on everyone. This is an expression of your privilege. Also, you’re a TERF. By the way, if your institution receives federal funds, make sure you report on your equity efforts immediately. How are you forwarding anti racism in your institution?Sure. But that's because we let the political parties and political media (which is virtually all media) set the terms. What the "middle" looks like is this:
Gay marriage is fine and should be legal, but we shouldn't be discussing/teaching sexual preference and sexual identity with elementary school kids.
Abortion should be legal without restriction in the first trimester, legal in certain circumstances in the second trimester, and legal only in the third trimester to save the life of the mother.
America is a nation of immigrants and should welcome a substantial number of immigrants who are seeking to build a better life in America, but we should not allow millions of people to cross the border illegally.
Criminals, especially repeat and violent criminals, should be dealt with strictly by the justice system, and police should actively keep our streets safe. But police and law enforcement who abuse their power should face strong consequences, including prosecution when necessary.
Americans have the right to buy and own guns mostly unencumbered, but certain assault rifles and accessories should not be easily legal. Current gun laws should be enforced.
We need to aggressively bring down the cost of college, but we should not be forgiving student loans for masters degrees for middle and upper class people.
Schools should teach the horrors of slavery and honor the civil rights movement, and teach historical and current examples of racism. But America is not a racist country, founded on and dedicated to White Supremacy, and all white people are not inherently racist.
I mean, all those those statements would garner at least 70% approval from the general public. On the face of it, they are all relatively common sense for anyone who is not deeply engaged with politics. That's what "moving to the middle" would look like, along with massively toning down the rhetoric, outright lies and the dehumanizing of the other side.
It only SEEMS impossible because of the lines our parties have set, whether that be total fealty to legal AR-15s or unregulated abortion through 9 months.
I do my work, which is interesting and basically don’t engage. Has it driven me to like democrats less? Yes. Maga crazies have almost no power compared to the prog left. You’re talking Jerry springer level for a lot of the maga crazy crowd. It’s mostly dumb poor people. I personally don’t know any maga crazies and very few people who admit to voting for trump. The latter only as a hate Biden/dnc more vote.Good grief. Aggrieved much? No idea how you survive in an an environment you apparently hate so deeply.
I’m not a huge fan of some of the DEI initiatives when taken to the extreme as they often are. Also not a fan of some of the more left-leaning goals of the Democratic Party. That said, I’d rather deal with all that than MAGA crazies any day.
The GOP booted Liz Cheney out of the party. That’s all I need to know about where they stand today.
OK, let's scorecard this using the actual politicians in the actual government:Sure. But that's because we let the political parties and political media (which is virtually all media) set the terms. What the "middle" looks like is this:
Gay marriage is fine and should be legal, but we shouldn't be discussing/teaching sexual preference and sexual identity with elementary school kids.
Abortion should be legal without restriction in the first trimester, legal in certain circumstances in the second trimester, and legal only in the third trimester to save the life of the mother.
America is a nation of immigrants and should welcome a substantial number of immigrants who are seeking to build a better life in America, but we should not allow millions of people to cross the border illegally.
Criminals, especially repeat and violent criminals, should be dealt with strictly by the justice system, and police should actively keep our streets safe. But police and law enforcement who abuse their power should face strong consequences, including prosecution when necessary.
Americans have the right to buy and own guns mostly unencumbered, but certain assault rifles and accessories should not be easily legal. Current gun laws should be enforced.
We need to aggressively bring down the cost of college, but we should not be forgiving student loans for masters degrees for middle and upper class people.
Schools should teach the horrors of slavery and honor the civil rights movement, and teach historical and current examples of racism. But America is not a racist country, founded on and dedicated to White Supremacy, and all white people are not inherently racist.
I mean, all those those statements would garner at least 70% approval from the general public. On the face of it, they are all relatively common sense for anyone who is not deeply engaged with politics. That's what "moving to the middle" would look like, along with massively toning down the rhetoric, outright lies and the dehumanizing of the other side.
It only SEEMS impossible because of the lines our parties have set, whether that be total fealty to legal AR-15s or unregulated abortion through 9 months.