Any news on Andrew? He left the court early last night after taking a hard spill and landing on his back. Any prognosis on his availability?
Fleming
- Thread starter Ronman
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Hahahahahahahaha well played... While on the topic of Fleming, what's everyone's thoughts on him? He hasn't had much chance to play I realize and he's a freshman but for some reason I expected a bit more. He has been pretty unproductive in the minutes he's gotten and his shot seems a little bit flat. Hopefully just growing pains and things that can be fixed.
I thought before the season that he and Wagner had the best chance to play of the 7 newcomers. What has been disappointing to me is that he was the 4th or 5th best player on what amounts to a small college team; I thought not being the star would make him more of a controlled player. He just tries way too hard to make something out of nothing whether it's a bad shot or showy pass.
Didn't expect much from his defense and that has proven true.
Fortunately, those problems are correctable. He just needs to have the patience to stick it out and be willing to learn.
Didn't expect much from his defense and that has proven true.
Fortunately, those problems are correctable. He just needs to have the patience to stick it out and be willing to learn.
I think he will be really good as an upperclassmen. He has great court vision and ball iq. He is also athletic.
I really think Fleming could be a very good player for us in the years to come. He definitely has some things to work on, but he's only a freshman. If there weren't already others redshirting, he could have benefited from a redshirt year it appears. He has the skills as a shooting guard to be a potentially important role player for us off the bench, as the season goes along.
He is clearly the worst freshmen that is playing. I don't know what all the hoopla was about on this kid.
He injured himself by jumping up in the air going down the lane.
The little that I have seen he turns the ball over, his shot is flat and he doesn't play any defense.
I don't see much playing time for this kid, Jok, Ellingson & Moss will be in front of him next year.
It wouldn't surprise me if he is the player to transfer. Baer should get his scholarship, who is our second best
player on this team.
He injured himself by jumping up in the air going down the lane.
The little that I have seen he turns the ball over, his shot is flat and he doesn't play any defense.
I don't see much playing time for this kid, Jok, Ellingson & Moss will be in front of him next year.
It wouldn't surprise me if he is the player to transfer. Baer should get his scholarship, who is our second best
player on this team.
I wouldn't consider athleticism a strength of Andrew's at the P5 level. It remains to be seen if he has the quickness and ability to defend opposing guards and small forwards at this level. Baseline to baseline I suspect AF is one of if not the slowest on the team out of the guards and wings on the roster.
Good post. It seems Ellingson took the backup shooting guard role and never let it go. It surprised me as I thought Fleming had the tools on offense and would get the defense fast enough to earn time, maybe even start eventually. It's been interesting that the guys making up the second unit all came from the most experience. Uhl, Ellingson and Baer all were here last year either playing or redshirting. Jones had three years in a Juco.
Wagner is the only true frosh to be playing when the game is on the line.
But then, we all knew the seniors were going to be the guts of this team.
Way too much overreacting about a freshman who has played sparingly. Most people here were ready to dump Ellingson up until about a month ago, also saying he was not a P5 player. Baer wasn't even on most people's radar. Fleming has both very good attributes and not so good ones, just like every guy we have. He will be just fine and good contributor in the years to come as he gets used to the college game, his teammates, and Fran's system. He could easily get Ellingson type minutes next year. He just needs a game or two where he finds his groove and comfort zone and earns Fran's trust, as we've seen recently with Ellingson, Baer, Uhl, etc.
I don't think you can have a vertical like him and not consider it P5 level athleticism. I like his game if his shooting develops.
Nice post. Way, Way, Waaaayyy to much overreacting fellas..... Only so many minutes to give out PT and like Dan said and above, not so fast my friends, Brady has taken those back up shooting guard minutes and he is not letting go of the PT.
The issue is we've got a lot of players on that bench who can play the game at a high level. Those 2 to 4 minutes players like Fleming and Williams are getting is just not enough PT to fairly critique their play especially at the end of the game when we are trying to run out the clock and their are not playing with other starters.
Fleming is a year behind Brady so it's a learning curve but I do believe if Andrew had Brady's minutes he would look better but Brady is the better player right now......
I say this a lot on the BB board....patience. Andrew is a very good BB player, he and Williams need more PT and it may not happen this year.
Agreed. I saw posts prior to the season starting saying if Baer saw any significant minutes this team was in trouble. This isn't like Hawkeye teams of 5 years ago where 3 star true Freshman were counted on to carry the team. It's largely up to Andrew as to how his story ends, but people need to give it some time.
LIke this ^^^^ I was at the game the other night and I was thinking there towards the end of the game when Wagner, Fleming, Williams, I think Dom was still in there and either Brady, Baer or Ukah or some combination but I can't remember a time or it's been awhile where the quality of BB players was as high as it's been this year playing out those final minutes in a blowout win......
All of these players want to do more and can but they try and play within the offense, the game is over so the intensity is lost but I sit there wanting to see more from each of these players but it's not going to happen this year....they'll get their opp soon and I hope they use this year to hone their skills, get stronger and get ready to play hard and more PT next year.
I don't know how things will end up with Fleming, but his play on the defensive end of the court will need to improve a lot to get playing time. Offensively, he needs to learn what is and is not a good shot, as this team in the future, will have many offensive weapons on the court at one time. On the plus side, imo, Andrew is very good at finishing drives to the basket from what I've seen. Defenders cannot afford to play him too tight as he will take it to the rack and finish on them. Physically, he was the 1 recruit that was Big 10 ready when he came to Iowa.
I think it's fair to say every single Hawkeye fan is rooting for Fleming, just like all the guys, to find their role and enjoy success as a Hawkeye. This year for the newbies, success may be more behind the scenes than on the court. But what great examples they have to follow.
Ellingson is exhibiting good basketball skills and has enjoyed a promising first full year of basketball while coming off the bench. Uhl, while his demeanor is hard to understand (I think his emotions are the cool, European kind...he's just not a rah, rah type.) his results have been good enough for many fans to call for him to start. And Baer. If any newbie can't see what hard work and playing within the system can do for a player like Baer, well, they're blind.
Last summer when I posted my guesswork opinions on the new guys I made sure to say that playing time would be limited this year. Personally, I stand by my thoughts that we have five talented true frosh with very high upsides. Thank goodness we don't have to watch them stumble as frosh when we are trying to win games. But I do feel that those of the new guys that put the effort in will be rewarded with strong roles on this team in the future.
The key is, buy in, heart and soul, to the methods taught by McCaffery and Staff. What worked in high school won't win Big Ten games. We need guys to be the team, the machine, the more they are the better Iowa plays. Heck, we see that this year even with the seniors...keep playing the passing game, keep working on defense!
Ellingson is exhibiting good basketball skills and has enjoyed a promising first full year of basketball while coming off the bench. Uhl, while his demeanor is hard to understand (I think his emotions are the cool, European kind...he's just not a rah, rah type.) his results have been good enough for many fans to call for him to start. And Baer. If any newbie can't see what hard work and playing within the system can do for a player like Baer, well, they're blind.
Last summer when I posted my guesswork opinions on the new guys I made sure to say that playing time would be limited this year. Personally, I stand by my thoughts that we have five talented true frosh with very high upsides. Thank goodness we don't have to watch them stumble as frosh when we are trying to win games. But I do feel that those of the new guys that put the effort in will be rewarded with strong roles on this team in the future.
The key is, buy in, heart and soul, to the methods taught by McCaffery and Staff. What worked in high school won't win Big Ten games. We need guys to be the team, the machine, the more they are the better Iowa plays. Heck, we see that this year even with the seniors...keep playing the passing game, keep working on defense!
Finals and first semester grades are one of the most common factors to players leaving....unfortunately that time is coming soon
Well heck, I'll go further than that! It is a fact that one of the freshmen may leave the team. Two may leave the team! Or none. One Could leave now in between semesters! Only 700 or so Division One players transferred last year. Iowa is not immune despite having been one of the better programs as far as retention is concerned.
As to Harty, that's the kind of rumor stuff that inside info or not doesn't do anyone any good. I guarantee there have been guys that came really close to deciding to leave that ended up staying. All he could be eluding to is that some guys have a decision to make.
Fleming has been a disappointment in his limited minutes based on my own personal expectations for him as a player. I was very glad to see him get some much needed minutes against T-Tech. He looks a little uncertain of himself now and looks like he is trying to understand the flow of a college offense. Earlier in the year it was see ball, shoot ball regardless. From a body perspective he reminds me of Gatens. Surprisingly his shot has looked suspect in the times he has shot it.
What this goes to show is playing even at a program like Oak Hill is a wide gap between playing D1 competition. Like another poster said and I agree that only Fleming controls how his story will be written. He's got to work much, much harder to become a legit player.
What this goes to show is playing even at a program like Oak Hill is a wide gap between playing D1 competition. Like another poster said and I agree that only Fleming controls how his story will be written. He's got to work much, much harder to become a legit player.
I thought that those that saw him in Prime time league were high on him. Please, no posts about how terrible PTL is.
I thought Andrew played much more under control in the last game. Seemed to understand the flow of the offense rather than trying to make something happen every time he touched the ball.
Andrew Fleming will be fine, in the future. This year, hopefully the Hawkeyes stay healthy and
Andrew plays sparingly. He will be fine. You can make book on that.
It is fun to watch the guys on the bench get excited about the floor action, 3's, dunks and such. The newbies all look like they are having fun! Hope they all stay, could be a really special group.
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I think like most freshman he's learning to value the ball, figure out what a good shot is and how to defend at this level. He's a product of a system where everyone was just concerned about themselves so he's trying to learn how to play in a team framework.
College is a big adjustment for all freshman. He's got the talent to contribute. If he grows in the mental game and is willing to put in the work he will contribute down the road.
College is a big adjustment for all freshman. He's got the talent to contribute. If he grows in the mental game and is willing to put in the work he will contribute down the road.
I think what it shows is that playing at a place like Oak Hill is more detrimental than beneficial. It teaches a player to play the wrong way.
Fleming has allot of bad habits to unlearn.
The thing that surprised me about him the most is the poor looking jump shot, which was suposed to be his thing.
I think he could end up decent but if he leaves it's not a big deal.
I think you are right. Also think the 2 guys redshirting have been said to have a lot to learn yet. I don't think it will matter if 1 or 2 leave as I think we can find replacements.
Yeah well maybe. The problem with a guy like Baer looking strong is that people look at the other freshmen and say, "Why aren't they just as good? Yank their schollies." People have no patience which is kind of natural even if stupid. Give the guy some time. I think he has some skills, just needs time to develop. Baer appears to have developed rapidly which is nice, but not the usual case.
We're 12 games into AF's college career. He's playing behind AC and Jok, who aren't giving up a lot of minutes at the shooting guard position, when PJ plays down and the team goes big. He's playing behind Ellingson, whose not playing that many minutes himself.
Very reminiscent of what many were saying about Jok 2 years ago at this time.
Very reminiscent of what many were saying about Jok 2 years ago at this time.
And Baer is a red shirt freshman with a whole season of practice and learning under his belt. Also with Baer, lets see how he does versus Big 10 competition before we get too excited about his abilities. That is not to say that he won't be more of a factor as he gets older and more experienced. I would hope that Hutton, Moss and Williams would not transfer, as I think they all can play important roles in Iowa's future successes. If academics is the issue, then that is an entirely different story.
Fleming is probably the most engaged bench guy we have, which isn't usually the case if someone is unhappy. He is the first one up clapping, holding up 3 fingers or high fiving guys as they come to the bench. Fran said he and Williams are 10 and 11 on the depth chart, so I doubt either guy thinks his PT will increase this season barring injury.
I'd actually argue that the majority of the class has looked physically ready to compete in the Big Ten. I think Fleming, Wagner (maybe could get a little stronger), Williams, Moss, and Hutton are all athletic enough to compete right now, but are a bit more lacking in knowing how to run Iowa's offense and defense/fundamentals.
I think that's what makes everybody so excited for this class- the fact that it seems like most of them don't have that far to go to be contributors relative to what we've seen in the past at Iowa.
In response to the post about somebody potentially leaving, I hope that if they do, they decide to do it sooner rather than later. That would be good for Fran as it allows him to be able to assess and manage the scholarship situation (although I wish everybody would stay).
Yeah, all of the frosh were fine from a physical standpoint, and Fleming was no more developed than the rest.
The main thing is there just isn't PT available.
Fran is all in with this group of upperclassmen. He's going to play them as many minutes as reasonably possible this year and let the chips fall where they may next year.
Should be a world of difference when Fleming, Wagner, Williams, Hutton, and Moss hit the court as sophomores. They should know the system and begin to play fast. You could see it in Uhl and Ellingson's game this year. They just know what to do.
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I think that Moss leaves after semester. I think Fran made that choice by not playing him and redshirting him. He had academic issue before coming to Iowa, makes me wonder if Fran thinks he can't hack it in college it.
Flemming is trying too hard, he is not letting the game come to him. he is trying to do too much and its hurting his game. He just needs to relax and play his style. He is a good player who can shoot the ball, but his problem is he is not looking to shoot. he is looking to find someone else and its hurting his game.
Flemming is trying too hard, he is not letting the game come to him. he is trying to do too much and its hurting his game. He just needs to relax and play his style. He is a good player who can shoot the ball, but his problem is he is not looking to shoot. he is looking to find someone else and its hurting his game.
I just don't see Moss leaving. He has to understand that the only reason he's likely being redshirted is because he's an entire summer behind the rest of the team in terms of PTL, team chemistry, etc. I can't see Williams or Wagner leaving because Wagner has seen quite a bit of playing time, and Williams should know that it's either going to be he or Bohannon who is the future at PG at Iowa (I guess at least for next year. Don't see CM being the PG day 1).
Which leaves Hutton and Fleming. I don't really think anybody will transfer this year, but these two seem to be the most likely candidates. That said, Hutton would have wasted a year of eligibility redshirting, and Fleming's enthusiasm for being a Hawkeye seemed and seems pretty genuine.
Again, I don't really think anybody leaves, simply because it's still really early. We have quite a few guys leaving after this year to graduation, and the freshmen's roles should be more defined next year, and that's when, if there is a time, that we might see a transfer.
You can thank guys like DanL for the overreaction. He, in particular, way overhyped this kid and the contribution he would make this year. As he mentions in this thread he thought he would be starting at some point this season. That was insanity. Fran has a senior starters, so unless he is one of the better freshman in the country he isn't starting over MG or AC.
As you say, he'll likely be fine in years to come but some people just go way overboard in their hyping of incoming freshman and the contribution they will make. Playing high school ball, even at a good school, is not close to the same thing as playing college ball. It takes time to adjust and develop ones game, unless you are an elite player.
Plenty of freshman making contributions across the country. While I agree expectations need to be grounded in reality, we seem to be very project player centric in our recruiting. Hard to believe none of these guys can sniff the court for meaningful minutes this season. A walk on from Bettendorf is better than everyone in this recruiting class? Would rather see Williams and Fleming red shirt than lose a year. At this point, neither guy has logged any meaningful PT that leads me to believe they can be add anything if pressed into duty.
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