Former Mumford & Sons member Winston Marshall says he was 'condemned' by other artists following controversial tweets: 'I lost a lot of friends'

NDallasRuss

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Dec 5, 2002
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IMO "the mob" is when a group of people express their opinion loud enough that an employer, band, group, (insert whatever) feels the need to take action on it. Unless some sort of criminal or heinous act has occurred, why can't people just say [to themselves], "Well, I don't agree with that, so I'm done with [fill in the blank]"? Not sure why the need to end someone's career over a different opinion.
All right - I'll agree with that.

At least this place pretty much operates as intended; a place where people can discuss topics anonymously. I've never considered HROT/HORT social media.

I do think that this place isn't representative of the rest of the country. I think that if there were an honest demographic/informational survey done, we'd find that, on average, there's a lot higher level of education, higher income, and just - in general - more things for us to be happy about in our lives, so that we didn't have to spend our time trying to bring others down and make them miserable.
 
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alaskanseminole

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You didn't. Why not?
They criticized the president and were booted from country radio overnight. Why weren't you there to protect them from being canceled?
This guy posted praise for an alt-right grifter and some people complained so he and his band decided it was best to go their separate ways. And here you are lamenting his troubles.
Why the difference?
Is this a serious question? It was more than 20 years ago and I wasn't a member of any of these sites. [insert roles eyes gif]

I remember when it happened, though, and I didn't burn my CDs either--I still own Wide Open Spaces and Fly which, iirc, were their biggest albums at that time. You say they took their lumps and kept on playing? I think that bs cancel culture killed their careers which is sad.

"And here you are lamenting his troubles" Additionally, I'm not lamenting "his" problems. Read my responses. My stance is more to the point of why do American's feel the need to do this? As state above, I listen to and watch many artists, actors, etc. that I don't personally agree with their personal ideology. Why are so many folks eager to silence those who they don't agree with?
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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If you are going to give your opinion about something then you need to be ready to deal with the consequences of that. If your livelihood involves getting other people to spend their money on your talent, like singing or acting or art or something else, then it's not a very good business decision to do things to piss off your potential customers. Michael Jordan got flack for saying, "Republicans buy shoes too", and I'll never understand that. He was absolutely correct and understood that publicly supporting certain political positions could risk the sales of his product.

Celebrities need to just not say anything controversial on social media. Or at least make an anonymous account if they really feel like they need to say their opinion that nobody asked for. It's part of their job whether they like it or not (and whether we like it or not). Interestingly enough, the line at awards shows is much farther. Evidently, spouting political opinions just gets people yelling at you on social media, but not cancelling you. You actually have to walk up on stage and hit someone for that.

That's the reality of it but at the same time it's kind of a sad state that we encourage our kids to stand up for what they believe in and all that but in real life doing that sort of thing just leads to your destruction.

Perhaps this is why we are starting to see more and more unstable personalities get elected to office. Because people who actually care about what others think of them are getting out.

I have thought about running for school board since getting on the ballot is so easy and I'd kind of like our school board to stop fixing all of their problems with bonds and actually get property taxes that allows them to save up for capital improvements. But now honestly looking at it I say screw that.

If I push for all the students at school to have their COVID vaccinations or push for a stronger COVID response from the schools half the people would want me dead. However if I make a comment that cisgendered individuals might be uncomfortable sharing bathrooms and locker rooms with trans individuals or something like that the other half the people might want me dead.

Both sides would go out of their way to hurt me and my family too.
 
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ThorneStockton

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IMO "the mob" is when a group of people express their opinion loud enough that an employer, band, group, (insert whatever) feels the need to take action on it. Unless some sort of criminal or heinous act has occurred, why can't people just say [to themselves], "Well, I don't agree with that, so I'm done with [fill in the blank]"? Not sure why the need to end someone's career over a different opinion.

These are the same people who rush home to post in their SM feed, "To the person who cut me off in traffic today [insert 2 para tirade].

At least this place pretty much operates as intended; a place where people can discuss topics anonymously. I've never considered HROT/HORT social media.


You might need a mirror and should think about applying your own standard for others, to yourself. The people who are trying to cancel others, the ones you call "the mob", they aren't committing a criminal or heinous act. So why can't you just let it go?

Why can't you just say [to yourself] "Well, I don't agree with that, so I'm done with cancel culture and the mob"?

Why do you feel you need to post about it on a message board when they just have a different opinion than you do? Couldn't you be more tolerant?
 

alaskanseminole

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Is it possible that their fan bases are also a very narrow group and what he did was essentially crapping where you eat?'
Maybe so, but I didn't know M&S had a tight demographic. I have a few of their albums, but I enjoy folk rock across the board; Passenger, NEEDTOBREATHE, The Lumineers, etc.

Tom Cruise is an interesting one though. No one on the left or the right generally likes scientology because of their behavior towards those that leave or speak out against them. But scientologist actors don't really seem to face much backlash.
Ya, he gets made fun of, but nothing has really impacted his star power. Like I said, he seems a little nuts, but I'm a huge on screen fan.
 

mnole03

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It sounds like the other guys in Mumford and Sons were just looking for a reason.

And you can’t get cancelled if you’re talented enough. Morgan Wallen is out there living his best life.
 
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alaskanseminole

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You might need a mirror and should think about applying your own standard for others, to yourself. The people who are trying to cancel others, the ones you call "the mob", they aren't committing a criminal or heinous act. So why can't you just let it go?

Why can't you just say [to yourself] "Well, I don't agree with that, so I'm done with cancel culture and the mob"?

Why do you feel you need to post about it on a message board when they just have a different opinion than you do? Couldn't you be more tolerant?
As stated above, I don't consider HROT a violation of my personal thoughts and standards. I've always viewed this as a place to express these sorts of opinions and ask associated questions. I'm not taking to a public forum to express a grievance--never have and never will.

I'm not outraged nor angry, just (like most on here), putting out a topic for discussion and reading through/responding to the answers. It's been a pretty good conversation so far.
 

BelemNole

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Mar 29, 2002
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Is this a serious question? It was more than 20 years ago and I wasn't a member of any of these sites. [insert roles eyes gif]

I remember when it happened, though, and I didn't burn my CDs either--I still own Wide Open Spaces and Fly which, iirc, were their biggest albums at that time. You say they took their lumps and kept on playing? I think that bs cancel culture killed their careers which is sad.

"And here you are lamenting his troubles" Additionally, I'm not lamenting "his" problems. Read my responses. My stance is more to the point of why do American's feel the need to do this? As state above, I listen to and watch many artists, actors, etc. that I don't personally agree with their personal ideology. Why are so many folks eager to silence those who they don't agree with?
Feel the need to do what? Distance themselves from people that do things they find reprehensible? Should Penn State still have it's JoPa statue up? Why oh why did Americans demand that we cancel poor Joe Paterno?
The dude in question said something on twitter, took some heat and he and his band decided it was best to part ways.
Are you suggesting that people should never take any heat for saying stupid things? Or just that you should be the arbiter for what is stupid and what isn't? I really can't figure out where you have an issue with this.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Maybe so, but I didn't know M&S had a tight demographic. I have a few of their albums, but I enjoy folk rock across the board; Passenger, NEEDTOBREATHE, The Lumineers, etc.


Ya, he gets made fun of, but nothing has really impacted his star power. Like I said, he seems a little nuts, but I'm a huge on screen fan.

Part of me wonders if it's just that Tom Cruise maybe due to his charisma is harder to replace.

However the desire to destroy anyone who disagrees with you has become who we are now.
 

BioHawk

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Sep 21, 2005
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That's the reality of it but at the same time it's kind of a sad state that we encourage our kids to stand up for what they believe in and all that but in real life doing that sort of thing just leads to your destruction.

Perhaps this is why we are starting to see more and more unstable personalities get elected to office. Because people who actually care about what others think of them are getting out.

I have thought about running for school board since getting on the ballot is so easy and I'd kind of like our school board to stop fixing all of their problems with bonds and actually get property taxes that allows them to save up for capital improvements. But now honestly looking at it I say screw that.

If I push for all the students at school to have their COVID vaccinations or push for a stronger COVID response from the schools half the people would want me dead. However if I make a comment that cisgendered individuals might be uncomfortable sharing bathrooms and locker rooms with trans individuals or something like that the other half the people might want me dead.

Both sides would go out of their way to hurt me and my family too.
It is very difficult to get anyone with integrity to run for office, it is even harder to get them elected.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Feel the need to do what? Distance themselves from people that do things they find reprehensible? Should Penn State still have it's JoPa statue up? Why oh why did Americans demand that we cancel poor Joe Paterno?
The dude in question said something on twitter, took some heat and he and his band decided it was best to part ways.
Are you suggesting that people should never take any heat for saying stupid things? Or just that you should be the arbiter for what is stupid and what isn't? I really can't figure out where you have an issue with this.

The heat used to usually be confined to the forum in which you said it. And it used to be confined to you.

Now you say something and people are calling up your employer demanding you be fired, protesting your employer, running DDS attacks on your employer.

They might also go protest outside your house and go after your family too.

The heat is no longer confined to you, it's expanded out to anyone associated with you now.
 

BelemNole

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The heat used to usually be confined to the forum in which you said it. And it used to be confined to you.

Now you say something and people are calling up your employer demanding you be fired, protesting your employer, running DDS attacks on your employer.

They might also go protest outside your house and go after your family too.

The heat is no longer confined to you, it's expanded out to anyone associated with you now.
Yeah, I feel bad for those people who have lost jobs for screaming racial slurs at fast food workers or strangers in the park. It's the real tragedy here.
 

alaskanseminole

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Oct 20, 2002
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All right - I'll agree with that. 👍


I do think that this place isn't representative of the rest of the country. I think that if there were an honest demographic/informational survey done, we'd find that, on average, there's a lot higher level of education, higher income, and just - in general - more things for us to be happy about in our lives, so that we didn't have to spend our time trying to bring others down and make them miserable.
I've often wondered how accurately this place represents the whole of America.

Personally, this place is just somewhere to pass the time throughout the day...I work from home, so it fills the gaps. :)
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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It is very difficult to get anyone with integrity to run for office, it is even harder to get them elected.

It's worse now because you have to get people who don't mind having a large number of people hate them or potentially leave them death threats.

I mean I wouldn't even want to hold the smallest most local office because people will look for a way to destroy you no matter what you do.
 
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You can't act like a man in that industry. It's dominated by pussies and nerds, and if you say anything that normal people believe, those dorks are coming after you.
Define “normal people“.

most so-called normal people don’t even understand that Bruce Springsteen‘s “born in the USA “or Neil Young’s “keep on rocking in the free World“ are colossal takedowns of this supposedly super awesome and great economic system and country.

Those same “normal people” also don’t understand that “Money for nothing “by Dire Straits is a blisteringly effective take down of the “normal people“ who work blue-collar jobs and look at successful people in the music industry and simply have no clue about the kind of effort it takes and the sacrifices that need to be made to be successful.

but when all people have for an “argument” is using insults like “pussy”, That says everything about the type of person they are and the type of political leaders they want.

after all, there are microwave ovens and custom kitchen deliveries and refrigerators to be moved. And everybody who doesn’t do that must be a pussy. MAGA Uber Alles.
 
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alaskanseminole

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Feel the need to do what? Distance themselves from people that do things they find reprehensible?
Then do that. Why the need for the virtue-signaling war cry with the "hope" the person will be jettisoned from the public eye. Why not just delete the album from their playlist and move on?

Should Penn State still have it's JoPa statue up? Why oh why did Americans demand that we cancel poor Joe Paterno?

Read my other post...I specifically stated this doesn't apply to criminal or heinous acts. See Bill Cosby for additional example. IMO, Bill canceled himself.

The dude in question said something on twitter, took some heat and he and his band decided it was best to part ways.
So maybe the "gripe" is two-fold;

1- Why was their so much backlash? Makes me wonder if it was even from fans of their music (or just people looking for something to get angry about)

2- maybe the band shouldn't have felt the need to cave to the heat.

I really can't figure out where you have an issue with this.
Then I can't help you.

Personally, I never saw the twitter post. I couldn't care less about the twitter post. AND (most importantly), it doesn't change the way I will continue listening to their music.
 

ThorneStockton

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Oct 2, 2009
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As stated above, I don't consider HROT a violation of my personal thoughts and standards. I've always viewed this as a place to express these sorts of opinions and ask associated questions. I'm not taking to a public forum to express a grievance--never have and never will.

I'm not outraged nor angry, just (like most on here), putting out a topic for discussion and reading through/responding to the answers. It's been a pretty good conversation so far.

Can you at least appreciate the irony in that it's not that you are against speaking out against others or the idea of someone "being cancelled", you just draw the line at a different level than some people do.

You require a criminal act or something heinous. People who have a different opinion than you and draw the line elsewhere are written off as the "mob" or probably some other term based around the word "woke".

Is dismissing a group of people that just have a different opinion as the "mob" or any other term not a form of cancelling?
 

BelemNole

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Then do that. Why the need for the virtue-signaling war cry with the "hope" the person will be jettisoned from the public eye. Why not just delete the album from their playlist and move on?



Read my other post...I specifically stated this doesn't apply to criminal or heinous acts. See Bill Cosby for additional example. IMO, Bill canceled himself.


So maybe the "gripe" is two-fold;

1- Why was their so much backlash? Makes me wonder if it was even from fans of their music (or just people looking for something to get angry about)

2- maybe the band shouldn't have felt the need to cave to the heat.


Then I can't help you.

Personally, I never saw the twitter post. I couldn't care less about the twitter post. AND (most importantly), it doesn't change the way I will continue listening to their music.
Ah..so it has to be heinous and you are the arbiter of what is heinous enough and what is just 'cancel culture.'
Glad we straightened that out.
 
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alaskanseminole

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Can you at least appreciate the irony in that it's not that you are against speaking out against others or the idea of someone "being cancelled", you just draw the line at a different level than some people do.
I get what you're saying and maybe this particular article was a poor example. We, as a society, have seemingly lost the ability to have discussions about differentiating ideas. Ideals are now tied to team politics and agendas and then are fueled by this raging desire to silence it when it doesn't align with rager's views. Maybe this is actually a good thing...the longer this goes on people will refrain from expressing what's on their mind for fear of retribution. Then we can get back to simply sharing pictures of food and family photos for grandma back home. :cool:

You require a criminal act or something heinous. People who have a different opinion than you and draw the line elsewhere are written off as the "mob" or probably some other term based around the word "woke".

Is dismissing a group of people that just have a different opinion as the "mob" or any other term not a form of cancelling?
Who am I cancelling? I'm commenting on a type of action, not a particular person. You expressing your opinion here has zero impact on anyone's personal life or livelihood... nor does mine, Bel's or anyone else.

I'm simply expressing my personal opinion (on a forum that literally functions on the daily exchange of anonymous opinions) that it doesn't do society much good to generate so much public vitriol that a person's livelihood is impacted for no more reason than you disagree with said person's opinion...and I don't care who's doing it; Democrats, Republicans, Independents, etc.

Let's take these comments by Mark Ruffalo as an example: Sorry, until George W. Bush is brought to justice for the crimes of the Iraq War, (including American-lead torture, Iraqi deaths & displacement, and the deep scars—emotional & otherwise—inflicted on our military that served his folly), we can’t even begin to talk about kindness.

What happens if I were to read this and take to twitter stating this is disrespectful to the former president and he [Mark] should be removed from the Marvel Universe and then other's retweet my post and over the course of the week my tweet grows to thousands upon thousands and eventually Marvel studios caves to the twitter "heat" and cuts ties with Mark. Is that a good thing or bad thing?

Is it Mark's fault for expressing his opinion publicly? Is it Marvel's fault for taking action based on Social Media? Is it just business and Mark will be fine seeking work elsewhere? What are your thoughts on social media campaigns that are simply based on a difference of opinion (we're not talking viral videos of some racist rant, police brutality, a crime, etc.) and the outcome is a person's livelihood and/or personal life is negatively impacted.

Personally, I couldn't care less what Mark's opinion is on G.W., he makes for a fine Hulk and I'll continue to watch him on screen.
 

alaskanseminole

HR Legend
Oct 20, 2002
11,076
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That's the reality of it but at the same time it's kind of a sad state that we encourage our kids to stand up for what they believe in and all that but in real life doing that sort of thing just leads to your destruction.

Perhaps this is why we are starting to see more and more unstable personalities get elected to office. Because people who actually care about what others think of them are getting out.

I have thought about running for school board since getting on the ballot is so easy and I'd kind of like our school board to stop fixing all of their problems with bonds and actually get property taxes that allows them to save up for capital improvements. But now honestly looking at it I say screw that.

If I push for all the students at school to have their COVID vaccinations or push for a stronger COVID response from the schools half the people would want me dead. However if I make a comment that cisgendered individuals might be uncomfortable sharing bathrooms and locker rooms with trans individuals or something like that the other half the people might want me dead.

Both sides would go out of their way to hurt me and my family too.
Thank you Hoosier for more clearly capturing the crux of my issue with the OP. My concern wasn't really, "poor guy in the article", but rather the state of our society when this is how differences are handled. He was just another result.

This would be no different then me disagreeing with Bel and trying to find out who he really is so I can try to ruin his life. Why? Because we don't agree? That would be ridiculous. I don't hold any ill-will towards him. His opinion just differs from mine (but not always).
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Sep 16, 2008
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Thank you Hoosier for more clearly capturing the crux of my issue with the OP. My concern wasn't really, "poor guy in the article", but rather the state of our society when this is how differences are handled. He was just another result.

This would be no different then me disagreeing with Bel and trying to find out who he really is so I can try to ruin his life. Why? Because we don't agree? That would be ridiculous. I don't hold any ill-will towards him. His opinion just differs from mine (but not always).

I am guessing that the people who do this are in the minority but you only need a relatively small number of people to make a big voice.
 

ThorneStockton

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Oct 2, 2009
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I get what you're saying and maybe this particular article was a poor example. We, as a society, have seemingly lost the ability to have discussions about differentiating ideas. Ideals are now tied to team politics and agendas and then are fueled by this raging desire to silence it when it doesn't align with rager's views. Maybe this is actually a good thing...the longer this goes on people will refrain from expressing what's on their mind for fear of retribution. Then we can get back to simply sharing pictures of food and family photos for grandma back home. :cool:


Who am I cancelling? I'm commenting on a type of action, not a particular person. You expressing your opinion here has zero impact on anyone's personal life or livelihood... nor does mine, Bel's or anyone else.

I'm simply expressing my personal opinion (on a forum that literally functions on the daily exchange of anonymous opinions) that it doesn't do society much good to generate so much public vitriol that a person's livelihood is impacted for no more reason than you disagree with said person's opinion...and I don't care who's doing it; Democrats, Republicans, Independents, etc.

Let's take these comments by Mark Ruffalo as an example: Sorry, until George W. Bush is brought to justice for the crimes of the Iraq War, (including American-lead torture, Iraqi deaths & displacement, and the deep scars—emotional & otherwise—inflicted on our military that served his folly), we can’t even begin to talk about kindness.

What happens if I were to read this and take to twitter stating this is disrespectful to the former president and he [Mark] should be removed from the Marvel Universe and then other's retweet my post and over the course of the week my tweet grows to thousands upon thousands and eventually Marvel studios caves to the twitter "heat" and cuts ties with Mark. Is that a good thing or bad thing?

Is it Mark's fault for expressing his opinion publicly? Is it Marvel's fault for taking action based on Social Media? Is it just business and Mark will be fine seeking work elsewhere? What are your thoughts on social media campaigns that are simply based on a difference of opinion (we're not talking viral videos of some racist rant, police brutality, a crime, etc.) and the outcome is a person's livelihood and/or personal life is negatively impacted.

Personally, I couldn't care less what Mark's opinion is on G.W., he makes for a fine Hulk and I'll continue to watch him on screen.

I'm a fan of agency and accountability. Regarding your Ruffalo example:

- I think Ruffalo is free to make such a comment and I even have a degree of admiration for a public figure who goes public with what is certainly a controversial position.
- I think you're free to take to Twitter to make your opinion known and make your demands (within Twitter's rules/terms of service). There's again a degree of admiration for people who at least do something related to what they believe in, even if Tweets are cheap.
- I think Marvel is free to act in their own best interest. If that means sticking a finger in the air and measuring the public sentiment, so be it. The decision to retain Mark or not is theirs and they will be responsible for the result. I personally would not find those comments to be worthy of firing based on their own merits, but I also understand that in reality a studio will consider other things when making personnel decisions.

I don't agree with the general characterization of who is at "fault". I view them more of a series of decisions/actions with corresponding results.

Certainly if Mark never made the comments at all, none of the rest of your hypothetical would make any sense. I don't think that makes him at "fault", just that he made decision that has outcomes/consequences.

Hope that helps.
 

ThorneStockton

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2009
24,516
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Another thing that is often conflated when this topic comes up and at times seems like the OP can at times make the distinction and in other cases it's less clear:

People always frame the story as if they are being punished, targeted and victimized all because they merely have a different opinion. Sounds pretty awful right, a different opinion and you're cancelled?

In reality, it's not that the opinion is different, e.g. opinion A is different relative to opinion B. It's that opinion A is condemnable/awful on its own merits.

I think Doritos are better than Cheetos. You think Cheetos are better than Doritos. We have different opinions. It's junk food, who gives a shit? It's meaningless.

I think Hitler had a good start and pedophilia is awesome. You think HItler was terrible and pedophilia is horrible. My opinion isn't condemnable because it's different than yours, it's condemnable because it's awful on it's own merits.
 

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