Fran's Continual Missing On Recruits

[GrayhoundHawk]

Iowa was 1st to show interest, Wisconsin was 1st to offer. Fran and Iowa advised D.J. of some things they wanted to see him improve on, he did (jump shot), and he got his offer. Then of course he blew up this Spring and here we are.

His choice had nothing to do with Iowa not showing interest first.

Iowa was 1st to show interest, Wisconsin was 1st to offer. Fran and Iowa advised D.J. of some things they wanted to see him improve on, he did (jump shot), and he got his offer. Then of course he blew up this Spring and here we are.

His choice had nothing to do with Iowa not showing interest first.

I still think we would have had a better shot at DJ had we offered 1st. I obviously wasn’t there when they told DJ what he will need to work on, but when Wisconsin offered 1st I have to think that doesn’t make the best impression on him. At least he let us know early that he’s not interested so we can get somebody else.

 

[iabcuda]

HoustonHawk kinda brought this up: I can’t remember a Fran team having fun (on a regular basis).

 

[2432Hawk]

I still think we would have had a better shot at DJ had we offered 1st. I obviously wasn’t there when they told DJ what he will need to work on, but when Wisconsin offered 1st I have to think that doesn’t make the best impression on him. At least he let us know early that he’s not interested so we can get somebody else.

I guess I missed where Wisconsin made this final 3... or even his final 6

 

[2432Hawk]

HoustonHawk kinda brought this up: I can’t remember a Fran team having fun (on a regular basis).

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Well from His basement He could do better recruiting the PG position than Fran

No. He wouldn't.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I guess I missed where Wisconsin made this final 3... or even his final 6

Because f*** Wisconsin. That's why.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

When I look at recruiting I tend to use the ESPN recruiting rankings. They purport to have the largest scouting data base and the "best" experts. I also stick w/ ESPN because their metrics don't change much year to year.

Based on ESPN rankings the current Iowa roster has:
Tyler Cook ESPN #34 4*
Weiskamp ESPN #77 4*
Connor McC ESPN #93 4*
Luka Garza ESPN #100 4*

Both Jordan and Ike Moss were 4* whose "grades" placed them around the 110-120 mark.

When was the last time we had four top 100 players on the roster? The last time we had six 4*s from any one recruiting service on the roster?

That's almost half the roster. Pemsyl and Nunge had some national reputations. Cordell's was wiped out by injury and Nunge was a late bloomer.

Of course we could have better recruiting but historically its been a long time since those kinds of recruiting resumes were this plentiful in Iowa City.

The core of this team is the junior class. Those boys are ready to win. I'm thinking we have the kind of season this year that we thought we'd have last year.

 

[Mgkcbb]

Hilarious!!! Head coaching jobs at programs like Iowa, in states that severely lack big time in-state talent, have always been about recruiting, and they always will be. It's amazing how many dumb sports fans there are out there. It's the Dunning-Kruger effect personified.

Villanova has not had a top 10 (or top 20 iirc) class in years and has won 2 out of the past 3 titles. It's about development, not recruiting.

 

[iahawks10]

Nice research. I stand corrected. Sure hasn't felt like we've finished that well over his tenure.

Although, he appears to have us heading in the wrong direction. I doubt this year will see us finish in the top 8 either...hope I'm wrong about that too.

The following year will be his bell-weather on if he has what it takes to get us back to conference contention.

Tell me Mr. Research, when was the last time we won a MBB regular season title anyway?

I’m Mr Research? Sweet. Not really much research involved. The last time Iowa won the B1G, 1979. Also pretty much common knowledge that didn’t require research. That was before my time and well before Fran’s. Is that Fran’s fault too?

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

When I look at recruiting I tend to use the ESPN recruiting rankings. They purport to have the largest scouting data base and the "best" experts. I also stick w/ ESPN because their metrics don't change much year to year.

Based on ESPN rankings the current Iowa roster has:
Tyler Cook ESPN #34 4*
Weiskamp ESPN #77 4*
Connor McC ESPN #93 4*
Luka Garza ESPN #100 4*

Both Jordan and Ike Moss were 4* whose "grades" placed them around the 110-120 mark.

When was the last time we had four top 100 players on the roster? The last time we had six 4*s from any one recruiting service on the roster?

That's almost half the roster. Pemsyl and Nunge had some national reputations. Cordell's was wiped out by injury and Nunge was a late bloomer.

Of course we could have better recruiting but historically its been a long time since those kinds of recruiting resumes were this plentiful in Iowa City.

The core of this team is the junior class. Those boys are ready to win. I'm thinking we have the kind of season this year that we thought we'd have last year.

National championship

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

I’m Mr Research? Sweet. Not really much research involved. The last time Iowa won the B1G, 1979. Also pretty much common knowledge that didn’t require research. That was before my time and well before Fran’s. Is that Fran’s fault too?

Only the last eight years Mr Research.

 

[Rifler]

Because f*** Wisconsin. That's why.

Yeah,... f*** Wisconsin,... what he said....

 

[iahawks10]

Only the last eight years Mr Research.

Eight years out of the last 40 (39 seasons) and four previous coaches failed to accomplish. I think Fran will be able to live with himself.

 

[IMCC965]

Irregardless, Fran needs to recruit some better dark magic

Wait for it..............

 

[Dick Rambone]

No. He wouldn't.

Because Fran has done so well in that regard , comn man His PG recruiting has been horrific. He has gotten some nice bigs I would give Him that.

 

[Dick Rambone]

Wait for it..............

Because Iowa's last All American was Black right, oh wait...

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

Eight years out of the last 40 (39 seasons) and four previous coaches failed to accomplish. I think Fran will be able to live with himself.

I'm sure he will. Also, as long as Barta can live with it, and he's still making idiotic decisions as the University AD, it won't matter.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Losing Carton is tough, what’s worse is the 2014/2015 recruiting classes.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Because Fran has done so well in that regard , comn man His PG recruiting has been horrific. He has gotten some nice bigs I would give Him that.

Why do you refer to Fran as if he's a main character from the Bible?........

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Losing Carton is tough, what’s worse is the 2014/2015 recruiting classes.

Carton should either surprise everyone and be like "j/k, I choose Iowa"....or not do well at all, especially against Iowa, wherever he goes, and then leave for the NBA after one season.


I think that would be acceptable.....

 

[GrayhoundHawk]

I guess I missed where Wisconsin made this final 3... or even his final 6

In my thinking, it’s hard to build up home stiate loyalty when my home state doesn’t even want to be my 1st major offer.

Wisconsin got some love and were the leaders by many reports until they brought in another point guard.

 

[doughuddl2]

that is the dumbest remark i've read on here in some time.

He's an expert at it.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

HoustonHawk kinda brought this up: I can’t remember a Fran team having fun (on a regular basis).

Are you guys both on the team?

 

[L. Wade Childress]

In my thinking, it’s hard to build up home stiate loyalty when my home state doesn’t even want to be my 1st major offer.

Wisconsin got some love and were the leaders by many reports until they brought in another point guard.

He’s lived in iowa three whole years.

 

[RocknRollface]

Villanova has not had a top 10 (or top 20 iirc) class in years and has won 2 out of the past 3 titles. It's about development, not recruiting.

Its also about identifying talent and managing a roster.

Fran has made a couple really bad passes on guys right in front of his face, allot of bad reaches, and allot of overloading on non positions of need.

And development has been so so at best.

 

[2432Hawk]

Because Iowa's last All American was Black right, oh wait...

Jarrod "Jerome" Uthoff

 

[2432Hawk]

Its also about identifying talent and managing a roster.

Fran has made a couple really bad passes on guys right in front of his face, allot of bad reaches, and allot of overloading on non positions of need.

And development has been so so at best.

??? Fran has made a couple really bad passes on guys right in front of his face ??? Refresh my memory?

 

[iahawks10]

??? Fran has made a couple really bad passes on guys right in front of his face ??? Refresh my memory?

Any guys comparable to David Johnson, less than 90 miles away from campus?

 

[RocknRollface]

??? Fran has made a couple really bad passes on guys right in front of his face ??? Refresh my memory?

Wes Washpun and Jeremy Morgan for sure and if you believe Roy Marble, Montee Morris too.

And yes I know there was only 1 left for Jok/Morgan but Fran should have had the foresight not to load up on reaches like Kyle Myer and Pat Ingram in the previous class.

 

[PersianHawk]

I’m new to this board, but have been a Hawk fan for over 40 years, and God knows, I’ve had my fair share of heartbreaks and disappointments, falling to UNLV in the elite 8, after being up by almost 20-points at the half, stung the most.

Losing DJ is a big deal, but another subpar season or failing to make the dance would be catastrophic. Fran has the kind of roster that can reward him with a great season. Jordan, in my opinion, is underrated and under appreciated, Fran’s son is way better than most people realize, Weiskamp can make an immediate impact, Iowa bigs are talented, and the bench is deep. To me, the only wildcard is the coaching staff.

Even for an old patient guy like me, the next two seasons are all I can stomach of Fran and the gang if things don’t turn around. The crazy substitution schemes, the lackadaisical defense, the long losing streaks, and Fran’s erratic courtside behavior have worn me off, and even though this is an unfair comparison to Fran, and I apologize to his ardent fans, I felt as exasperated last year as I did during Lick’s era.

Having said all that, I think and I hope that the next season is the one that marks a memorable turning point in Iowa basketball future.

Go Hawks!

 

[Mgkcbb]

Its also about identifying talent and managing a roster.

Fran has made a couple really bad passes on guys right in front of his face, allot of bad reaches, and allot of overloading on non positions of need.

And development has been so so at best.

Great post. Fit and development.

Michigan, Loyola, and Villanova were about fit and development as any teams in the nation.

Kentucky had a ton of 5 stars, but they didn't really fit together and it showed throughout the year.

Matt Painter built a 2 seed top 5 KenPom team with only 3 top 100 recruits, none of which ranked higher than 71st in their class.

By the way here are Novas team recruiting rankings according to 247:

2012 27th
2013 36th
2014 48th
2015 29th
2016 45th
2017 28th


And they've been dump trucking the nation the past 3 years.

 

[Raptorpeeps]

Fran’s son is way better than most people realize...
Go Hawks!

No he’s not.

 

[walleye hunter16]

Its also about identifying talent and managing a roster.

Fran has made a couple really bad passes on guys right in front of his face, allot of bad reaches, and allot of overloading on non positions of need.

And development has been so so at best.

I agree on development. The rest is conjecture. The feel I get is much like with George Raveling. Bring in talented people and let them play.
People thinking Fran hasnt gotten highly thought of or rated guys are just not looking at the players in the program.
I do believe there is huge benefit in how KF builds his team by hard work and working together within the system to get the most out of peoples ability.
Raveling told me straight up he recruited talent and tried not to put too many reins on them. Get em on the court and let the thoroughbreds run. Frans teams feel much the same but talent levels are so even anymore I dont think that is what Iowa can do and expect to get a high level of consistent success.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

I’ll just list them for you.

2011 - 10th
2012 - 7th
2013 - 6th
2014 - 6th
2015 - 3rd
2016 - 3rd
2017 - 5th
2018 - 11th

That looks to be the definition of “perennial 8-12” right there.

How? 6 of the 8 years he finished 3-7. Last year and his first only years he finished between 8-12.

 

[blockm2]

How? 6 of the 8 years he finished 3-7. Last year and his first only years he finished between 8-12.

to be fair, that list of conference finishes ignores ties. It'd be equally fair to list his finishes as 13th, 8th, 6th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 8th, and 10th. With unequal conference schedules, it can be tricky to delineate which teams were better in a tied standing.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Are you guys both on the team?

Watch Iowa play under Fran and then compare it to Michigan under Beilein. Which team's players are having more fun? It ain't close.

 

[iahawks10]

How? 6 of the 8 years he finished 3-7. Last year and his first only years he finished between 8-12.

I was being sarcastic.

But according to Choice Hotels, it just feels like perennial 8-12.

 

[ChiDoc]

Villanova has not had a top 10 (or top 20 iirc) class in years and has won 2 out of the past 3 titles. It's about development, not recruiting.

Villanova hasn't been top 10 because they have had extremely small classes over that period, with an average class size of 3 recruits. It's extremely difficult to make the top 10 with only three players signed because the rankings include both quantity and quality. Meanwhile when you actually look at their roster it's filled with elite recruits; multiple 5 star recruits and a bunch of extremely high 4 stars. On an average recruit basis, those rosters were EASILY far more talented than any the Hawkeyes have had in the last 25 years. What a freaking joke.

Here are the rankings of the top 125 level recruits that made up the recruiting classes from Villanova's two title teams:
#56, #49, #57, #76, #79, #75, #81, #22, #20, #46, #97, #107, #122, #124,

Now lets look at the recruits in the top 125 Fran signed over that same time period:
#46, #76, #72, #118

It takes a special kind of stupid to argue a program filled with 14 elite four and five star recruits proved it's not about recruiting. You realize they can only play 5 of those 14 elite players at a time right? You have to be trolling here because otherwise I have serious doubts you could breathe unassisted.

 

[iahawks10]

to be fair, that list of conference finishes ignores ties. It'd be equally fair to list his finishes as 13th, 8th, 6th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 8th, and 10th. With unequal conference schedules, it can be tricky to delineate which teams were better in a tied standing.

So Iowa actually finished 13th in 2011 in an 11 team league? That’s impressively bad.

Also in 2017, Iowa was 7th after tie breakers, not 8th and 12th last year.

 

[blockm2]

So Iowa actually finished 13th in 2011 in an 11 team league? That’s impressively bad.

Also in 2017, Iowa was 7th after tie breakers, not 8th and 12th last year.

13th was last season when Iowa was in a 3 way tie 1 game ahead of last place Rutgers. I went backwards from the present. Also I didn't apply any "tiebreakers" to standings, was just contrasting with the poster I replied to that considered Iowa at the top of all ties in standings what it'd look like if they were at the bottom of those ties.