FRL 346 - Nomad continuing to criticize Desanto for "head bouncing" Lizak.

Is_there_vodka_in_heaven

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Has Nomad wrestled before? He keeps harping on Desanto "bouncing Lizak's head off the mat" as if that's the most egregious action Desanto has done this year.

The whistle hadn't been blown yet. It is perfectly legal to hard pressure someone's head and snap it down into the mat. This is done very commonly and is a good wrestling move when trying to turn from top or prior to releasing someone or from neutral in a front headlock. This is also the type of move that you'll see when one wrestler is attempting to physically and mentally break another.

There were 2 seconds remaining in the match when Desanto did this - enough time for him to get a 2 count and he nearly did turn Lizak with a half at the end.

Also, if you watch the match, Lizak's head never bounced off the mat. I know Bratke corrected Nomad last week on FRL, but Nomad brought it up again this week and he's just factually off base here. Watch the end sequence. Desanto hard pressures his head before the whistle is blown. It is never "bounced off the mat".

IMO, Desanto's actions vs Suriano were worse than vs Lizak. I don't want to harp on Desanto's post match actions as it's already been discussed, but Nomad keeps bringing up this point and it's just factually wrong. If you want to criticize Desanto's post match antics, you won't find many people who are going to find all of it kosher, but the "bouncing the head off the mat" never happened and certainly wasn't over the line in any sense as the clock was still running.

Here's a replay of the match. You can see the end "head bounce" starting at 9:30 on the YT timer.




Bouncing someone's head off the mat like a basketball isn't an illegal move and if you let a guy do that to you, you deserve the headache afterwards.
 

OldHawkFan

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Agreed. A lot of wrestlers push the head down as time expires, especially when the guy on bottom stops wrestling. It’s like a “stay there” type of move.
This move is also done when you are cutting or getting off a guy to keep him from attacking your legs.

Clearly Nomad doesn’t have a clue.
If you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about you should just stay quiet.

And you are right, the screaming in the face was way worse.
 

witherman

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well that would make him an expert at getting his head bounced off the mat.

original.gif
 

Nahf

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Feb 4, 2015
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"Bouncing". Lol. Most wrestlers do what Desanto did, but since it's ADS and Iowa they've gotta make a huge deal out of it.
I don't have a problem with pushing the head down. I did that kind of stuff to send a message a time or two after defeating a rival. The spitting...not okay.

By the way, you guys should be thankful for the publicity you get on FRL. You're quick to point out the stuff that irritates you, but there's plenty of pro-Iowa stuff from those guys. This summer/fall was filled with Iowa-related stuff every episode.
 

PrairieHawk24

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Cedar Rapids
I don't have a problem with pushing the head down. I did that kind of stuff to send a message a time or two after defeating a rival. The spitting...not okay.

By the way, you guys should be thankful for the publicity you get on FRL. You're quick to point out the stuff that irritates you, but there's plenty of pro-Iowa stuff from those guys. This summer/fall was filled with Iowa-related stuff every episode.
They know who keeps them on the air. Hawk fans
 

CowboyKiller141

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Lizak could have bounced up on reaction and got bull rushed over quick. DeSanto is such a bully. Eye roll.

I bet Lizak didn’t think anything of it. He’s not a puss, he’s a wrestler and I’m sure he’s done it to others at some time. What wrestler hasn’t? Maybe not the Spencer, because he has wings and a halo. Angel of death.

So Iowa can’t head smush or trip on releases or they’re dirty. Got it. Other way around and it would be celebrated. It’s part of wearing the black hat.
 

rossel 33

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Compare the Desanto “head bouncing” with Gable’s that I don’t think Nomad didn’t even brought up:


Nomad's comments are a bit over the top. Wonder what he would say about the Steveson clip above.

Singling out or exaggerating something debatable when an Iowa guy does it, but ignoring it in when other wrestlers do far worse was a regular feature on themat forums, esp. with Metcalf.

FLO has always seemed decent as far as Iowa's coverage, but at times went a little overboard in their Cael love.
 
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24Hawkeye7

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Personally, I'm sick and tired of Nomad. And I don't watch/listen to anything he is involved with anymore.

He is a pretentious wrestling snob who constantly whines (and always sounds like he's whining) about everything. And he has admitted his bias against Iowa. That to me is weak journalism in general.

#PromoteBratke
 
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24Hawkeye7

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I don't have a problem with pushing the head down. I did that kind of stuff to send a message a time or two after defeating a rival. The spitting...not okay.

By the way, you guys should be thankful for the publicity you get on FRL. You're quick to point out the stuff that irritates you, but there's plenty of pro-Iowa stuff from those guys. This summer/fall was filled with Iowa-related stuff every episode.
Thats because Iowa is consistently one of the top programs in the country and you cover the best teams....

Should Clemson/Alabama/Whoever be "thankful" for the coverage? No, they earn the coverage
 

JohnBasedow

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I don’t think we should paint a broad stroke on all of them because Nomad has a bad take on this. We complain when others group us all together because of some stupid takes are posted on HR. It would be hypocritical to do the same to them.
 

Is_there_vodka_in_heaven

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I don't have a problem with pushing the head down. I did that kind of stuff to send a message a time or two after defeating a rival. The spitting...not okay.

By the way, you guys should be thankful for the publicity you get on FRL. You're quick to point out the stuff that irritates you, but there's plenty of pro-Iowa stuff from those guys. This summer/fall was filled with Iowa-related stuff every episode.

I've commented several times that I really enjoy FRL and I generally agree with what they have to say. I wouldn't have commented on this particular instance, but Nomad has repeated it two weeks in a row and he's just factually incorrect on what happened. And he says it with such passion and confidence. If you're going to have a public radio show then you're subjecting yourself to comments and feedback from the public. Nothing against Nomad personally - I often like what he has to say.
 

24Hawkeye7

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I don’t think we should paint a broad stroke on all of them because Nomad has a bad take on this. We complain when others group us all together because of some stupid takes are posted on HR. It would be hypocritical to do the same to them.
I think we are all talking about Nomad specifically
 

slushhead

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Mar 10, 2014
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I don't know about heads bouncing off mats, but I did rewatch this match a few days ago, and what I recall seeing was DeSanto lying calmly on Lizak as time was expiring, and with a few seconds left, suddenly spazzing in response to Lizak trying to free his right arm. That continued straight into the screaming, alleged mat spit, hand-slap, and jawing.

The sequence struck me as DeSanto being pissed that Lizak had the gall to suddenly start wrestling with only a few seconds left on the clock, when he had been just lying there motionless for the previous 5+ seconds as though he had conceded the match and was not going to contest the closing moments (as is customary in many matches). When Lizak tried to pull a fast one, DeSanto took offense and overreacted. The physicality of the head work and throwing in a half exceeded your run-of-the-mill, concluding face mush or shove for self-preservation. It seemed like a lost temper in this case, bounced head or not.
 

TailgateTom

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I don't know about heads bouncing off mats, but I did rewatch this match a few days ago, and what I recall seeing was DeSanto lying calmly on Lizak as time was expiring, and with a few seconds left, suddenly spazzing in response to Lizak trying to free his right arm. That continued straight into the screaming, alleged mat spit, hand-slap, and jawing.

The sequence struck me as DeSanto being pissed that Lizak had the gall to suddenly start wrestling with only a few seconds left on the clock, when he had been just lying there motionless for the previous 5+ seconds as though he had conceded the match and was not going to contest the closing moments (as is customary in many matches). When Lizak tried to pull a fast one, DeSanto took offense and overreacted. The physicality of the head work and throwing in a half exceeded your run-of-the-mill, concluding face mush or shove for self-preservation. It seemed like a lost temper in this case, bounced head or not.
I don't think it was a lost temper thing. Lizak did nothing, even stalling on top during the entire 2nd period. All of a sudden he wants to score points at the end? That's fine if that's his choice, but he has to know that since there is time still on the clock, Desanto tried to put him on his back.
 

Is_there_vodka_in_heaven

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The physicality of the head work and throwing in a half exceeded your run-of-the-mill, concluding face mush or shove for self-preservation. It seemed like a lost temper in this case, bounced head or not.

That simply does not matter. Everything he did before the whistle blew was legal. Like I said, he wasn't far from turning him with that half. Wrestling is an intense and physical sport. Nomad taking issue with "bouncing his head off the mat" (which didn't happen if you watch the film) is just silly. Everything after the whistle is up for discussion. The worst imo was the handshake. There is nothing wrong with gesturing to pump up the crowd that is booing you.

I didn't see the spit so I can't comment on that.
 

slushhead

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That simply does not matter. Everything he did before the whistle blew was legal. Like I said, he wasn't far from turning him with that half. Wrestling is an intense and physical sport. Nomad taking issue with "bouncing his head off the mat" (which didn't happen if you watch the film) is just silly. Everything after the whistle is up for discussion. The worst imo was the handshake. There is nothing wrong with gesturing to pump up the crowd that is booing you.

I didn't see the spit so I can't comment on that.

Not saying anything was illegal. Just that the speed and aggressiveness of the response to Lizak did not seem controlled to me. What happened afterward seemed like a continuation of that spark. But then again, the spark after the Suriano match seemed unprovoked, so who knows.
 

23 so far

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I don't know about heads bouncing off mats, but I did rewatch this match a few days ago, and what I recall seeing was DeSanto lying calmly on Lizak as time was expiring, and with a few seconds left, suddenly spazzing in response to Lizak trying to free his right arm. That continued straight into the screaming, alleged mat spit, hand-slap, and jawing.

The sequence struck me as DeSanto being pissed that Lizak had the gall to suddenly start wrestling with only a few seconds left on the clock, when he had been just lying there motionless for the previous 5+ seconds as though he had conceded the match and was not going to contest the closing moments (as is customary in many matches). When Lizak tried to pull a fast one, DeSanto took offense and overreacted. The physicality of the head work and throwing in a half exceeded your run-of-the-mill, concluding face mush or shove for self-preservation. It seemed like a lost temper in this case, bounced head or not.
I thought it was a bit excessive as well.
 
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6relpparg

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He spit on the mat. A Gopher wrestler confirmed it. They would have had some of the best vantage points to witness it. I am sure many will not see it as a good enough proof. Everyone always wants to see the best in their guy. Which that’s part of being a fan.

I think it was pretty clear Lizak was conceding as the clock was ticking down. I don’t get the “he(Lizak) was trying to score” narrative.
 

Is_there_vodka_in_heaven

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I think it was pretty clear Lizak was conceding as the clock was ticking down. I don’t get the “he(Lizak) was trying to score” narrative.

That's completely irrelevant. There was still time on the clock. Desanto can wrestle as intense as he wants within the rules when there is time on the clock. Not to mention they may meet again and he probably wanted to send a message for next time.
 

6relpparg

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That's completely irrelevant. There was still time on the clock. Desanto can wrestle as intense as he wants within the rules when there is time on the clock. Not to mention they may meet again and he probably wanted to send a message for next time.

I am responding to someone saying that Desanto took offense to Lizak attempting to score at the end and that is what triggered his rage.
 

WDuck5217

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Desanto was not even close to bouncing Lizaks head off the mat. What Gable did was much closer to bouncing his opponents head off the mat and I really don’t have a problem with it. It’s a physical sport and there is time running. I’m guessing he did get upset how Lizak wouldn’t wrestle him back and then tried to get his arm free and wrestle at the very end and that’s why he did it like many before had said . If you want to see another instance of a “dirty Hawkeye wrestler” holding the head down at the end of the match watch Spencer Lee’s junior state finals where he teched AD and held his head down while he first pumped. You don’t really here much about Spencer being a dirty wrestler from that. I love flo, but the bias can get old... whatever though it gives the hawks some more attention so whatever.
 

slushhead

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He spit on the mat. A Gopher wrestler confirmed it. They would have had some of the best vantage points to witness it. I am sure many will not see it as a good enough proof. Everyone always wants to see the best in their guy. Which that’s part of being a fan.

I think it was pretty clear Lizak was conceding as the clock was ticking down. I don’t get the “he(Lizak) was trying to score” narrative.

I am responding to someone saying that Desanto took offense to Lizak attempting to score at the end and that is what triggered his rage.

I do not believe Lizak was "trying to score" and did not say that. Merely trying to free his arm, which DeSanto seemed to interpret as an attempt to wrestle after concession had been signaled. Violation of an "unwritten rule", so to speak. But I -- watching it from my couch -- did not perceive it as an attempt to score.
 

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