Fry would have never hired a son to

pocha444444

HR Heisman
May 16, 2007
5,720
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Kirk winning % at Iowa: 62%

Hayden winning % at Iowa: 60%
Fry has a better Big Ten winning % while playing Ohio State and Michigan most years. Kirk's faced Ohio St a total of 3 times since 2010, and has benefited from a weak Big Ten West and lesser Michigan program. That's before even mentioning the automatic MAC and FCS wins Kirk is gifted every season. Hayden played mostly 11 game schedules and most years all 3 nonconference games were against power 5 teams. Hayden's resume is much better than Kirk's.
 

Ladell-hawk

HR MVP
Sep 12, 2012
1,960
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Fry has a better Big Ten winning % while playing Ohio State and Michigan most years. Kirk's faced Ohio St a total of 3 times since 2010, and has benefited from a weak Big Ten West and lesser Michigan program. That's before even mentioning the automatic MAC and FCS wins Kirk is gifted every season. Hayden played mostly 11 game schedules and most years all 3 nonconference games were against power 5 teams. Hayden's resume is much better than Kirk's.
The Big Ten has been much tougher from top to bottom during Kirk's tenure, so I would disagree with your conclusion.
 

pocha444444

HR Heisman
May 16, 2007
5,720
3,642
113
The Big Ten has been much tougher from top to bottom during Kirk's tenure, so I would disagree with your conclusion.
Even if you think that, Kirk hasn't played the top teams as often as Hayden did. The main difference is Kirk is practically given two wins every year in the nonconference. Many years Hayden would face a team he could lose to every single week.
 

Ladell-hawk

HR MVP
Sep 12, 2012
1,960
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Even if you think that, Kirk hasn't played the top teams as often as Hayden did. The main difference is Kirk is practically given two wins every year in the nonconference. Many years Hayden would face a team he could lose to every single week.
The Big Ten was still the Big two and the little 8 for most of Hayden's first 10 years. Hayden made the Hawks the first team to challenge them and then Illinois broke through , but it took awhile longer for quite a few of the remaining teams to get tougher.
 
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93hawkeye

HR MVP
Sep 19, 2004
2,321
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113
There's more than 1 approach to being a successful Head Coach. Fry and Ferentz are very different. Their results (W-L, Conference Titles, etc) are pretty comparable.
I think the deal is every coach makes some choices that turn out poorly. If it happens early in their career, the leash is usually short. If it happens later in their career, they've earned the benefit of the doubt. and stubbornness or complacency might have a stronger hold.
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
15,804
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So as Dragnet said : Just the facts maam.
So here they are:
HAYDEN --------------------
OK, NEB
Iowa State, AZ
Neb, ISU, UCLA
ISU, NEB, AZ
ISU, Penn State
ISU, Penn state, Hawaii
Drake, ISU, N. Ill.
ISU, N. Ill, UTEP
Tenn, ISU, AZ, K State
Hawaii, K State, ISU, Co.
Oregon, Tulsa, ISU
Hawaii, K State, Co, ISU
CinCi, ISU, Miami
Hawaii, N. Ill, ISU
NC St, Miami, ISU, Co.
1993 - Tulsa, ISU, N. Ill 9 B1G games
C. Ill, ISU
N. Ill, ISU, New Mexico St. Only 8 B1G Games ?????
AZ,ISU, Tulsa
N Ill, ISU, Tulsa
C Mich, ISU, AZ
16 Non power 5 (approximately, as they move around) in 21 years

Kirk ---------------------------------------
Neb, ISU, N Ill
K state, ISU, W. Mich
Kent State, Miami (OH), ISU
Akron, ISU, Miami (OH), Utah St
Miami(OH), Buffalo, ISU
Kent State, ISU, Az State
Ball state, ISU, N. Iowa
Montana, ISU, Syracuse
N Ill, ISU, Syracuse
Maine, Fl International, ISU, Pitt
N. Iowa, AZ, ISU
E. Ill, ISU, AZ, Ball State
Tenn State, ISU, Pitt, That power Lousiana-Monroe
N. Iowa, ISU, N. Ill, Central Mich
N. Ill, ISU, Missouri State, W. Mich
N. Ill, Ball state, ISU, Pitt
Ill. State, ISU, Pitt, North Texas
Miami (OH), ISU, N. Dakota St
Wy, N. Texas, ISU
N. Ill, ISU, N Iowa
ISU, Miami (OH), Middle Tenn State
NO OOC covid
ISU, Kent State, Colorado State
S. Dakota St, ISU, Nevada
=== 43 2nd Tier teams in 24 years.

So Kirk has had 27 MORE cupcake games that Hayden.

That is a little over 1 gimme a year. So subtract 27 games from Kirks record, and you get 181 - 27 = 154 wins and 112 losses. That is a little less than 58%. Hayden won right at 60% of Iowa games and if you throw out the 6 ties, it was 68%. So regardless of what the scores were, Hayden is best in my opinion.

First, I have no problem with those that say HF was the better, more successful coach. Personally I think they have both been great - I don't feel the need to prove which one was "better" or "more successful".

But, HF won 143 games at Iowa out of 238 total games. Subtract the 16 games that apparently don't count, and he won 127 games out of 222 games or 57.2%. The difference is how you treat the ties I assume. I'm just counting wins out of the total.

If you want to eliminate the ties, then he won 127 games out of 216 or 58.8%.

As you say, KF's adjusted record was 154 out of 266 for 57.9%

Their records and accomplishments are so similar that parsing them out in a certain way doesn't change the result much.
 

pistachio1999

HR All-American
Nov 29, 2021
3,542
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First, I have no problem with those that say HF was the better, more successful coach. Personally I think they have both been great - I don't feel the need to prove which one was "better" or "more successful".

But, HF won 143 games at Iowa out of 238 total games. Subtract the 16 games that apparently don't count, and he won 127 games out of 222 games or 57.2%. The difference is how you treat the ties I assume. I'm just counting wins out of the total.

If you want to eliminate the ties, then he won 127 games out of 216 or 58.8%.

As you say, KF's adjusted record was 154 out of 266 for 57.9%

Their records and accomplishments are so similar that parsing them out in a certain way doesn't change the result much.
It's nostalgia. Looks better as time passes or is remembered as such. Kirk's favorability/remembrance will increase years after he retires too.

Hayden had greater bravado. He was a John Wayne type of coach. Kirk is more reserved.
 
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BVHawkeye

HR Legend
Jan 6, 2003
14,083
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coach positions that his son had NO experience coaching.

Neither would Coach Fry would let a coach keep their job when their unit was the worst in the entire country.

Frye was battling cancer his final years at Iowa and had the integrity to resign.

Iowa football needs that kind of integrity soon.
How do you know that?
 

hawkeyeinmo

HR All-American
Feb 7, 2017
3,317
4,204
113
So as Dragnet said : Just the facts maam.
So here they are:
HAYDEN --------------------
OK, NEB
Iowa State, AZ
Neb, ISU, UCLA
ISU, NEB, AZ
ISU, Penn State
ISU, Penn state, Hawaii
Drake, ISU, N. Ill.
ISU, N. Ill, UTEP
Tenn, ISU, AZ, K State
Hawaii, K State, ISU, Co.
Oregon, Tulsa, ISU
Hawaii, K State, Co, ISU
CinCi, ISU, Miami
Hawaii, N. Ill, ISU
NC St, Miami, ISU, Co.
1993 - Tulsa, ISU, N. Ill 9 B1G games
C. Ill, ISU
N. Ill, ISU, New Mexico St. Only 8 B1G Games ?????
AZ,ISU, Tulsa
N Ill, ISU, Tulsa
C Mich, ISU, AZ
16 Non power 5 (approximately, as they move around) in 21 years

Kirk ---------------------------------------
Neb, ISU, N Ill
K state, ISU, W. Mich
Kent State, Miami (OH), ISU
Akron, ISU, Miami (OH), Utah St
Miami(OH), Buffalo, ISU
Kent State, ISU, Az State
Ball state, ISU, N. Iowa
Montana, ISU, Syracuse
N Ill, ISU, Syracuse
Maine, Fl International, ISU, Pitt
N. Iowa, AZ, ISU
E. Ill, ISU, AZ, Ball State
Tenn State, ISU, Pitt, That power Lousiana-Monroe
N. Iowa, ISU, N. Ill, Central Mich
N. Ill, ISU, Missouri State, W. Mich
N. Ill, Ball state, ISU, Pitt
Ill. State, ISU, Pitt, North Texas
Miami (OH), ISU, N. Dakota St
Wy, N. Texas, ISU
N. Ill, ISU, N Iowa
ISU, Miami (OH), Middle Tenn State
NO OOC covid
ISU, Kent State, Colorado State
S. Dakota St, ISU, Nevada
=== 43 2nd Tier teams in 24 years.

So Kirk has had 27 MORE cupcake games that Hayden.

That is a little over 1 gimme a year. So subtract 27 games from Kirks record, and you get 181 - 27 = 154 wins and 112 losses. That is a little less than 58%. Hayden won right at 60% of Iowa games and if you throw out the 6 ties, it was 68%. So regardless of what the scores were, Hayden is best in my opinion.
Are you counting Miami of Ohio a “cupcake” when Iowa played there on the road against Big Ben? Also played them at home.
 

twindman

HR MVP
Sep 1, 2010
1,873
1,107
113
First, I have no problem with those that say HF was the better, more successful coach. Personally I think they have both been great - I don't feel the need to prove which one was "better" or "more successful".

But, HF won 143 games at Iowa out of 238 total games. Subtract the 16 games that apparently don't count, and he won 127 games out of 222 games or 57.2%. The difference is how you treat the ties I assume. I'm just counting wins out of the total.

If you want to eliminate the ties, then he won 127 games out of 216 or 58.8%.

As you say, KF's adjusted record was 154 out of 266 for 57.9%

Their records and accomplishments are so similar that parsing them out in a certain way doesn't change the result much.
Bad math on your part. You have to subtract 42 from KFs wins, not 27. I was just adjusting Kirk down to Hayden. So KF would be
First, I have no problem with those that say HF was the better, more successful coach. Personally I think they have both been great - I don't feel the need to prove which one was "better" or "more successful".

But, HF won 143 games at Iowa out of 238 total games. Subtract the 16 games that apparently don't count, and he won 127 games out of 222 games or 57.2%. The difference is how you treat the ties I assume. I'm just counting wins out of the total.

If you want to eliminate the ties, then he won 127 games out of 216 or 58.8%.

As you say, KF's adjusted record was 154 out of 266 for 57.9%

Their records and accomplishments are so similar that parsing them out in a certain way doesn't change the result much.
Bad stats you used. I just subtracted KF cupcakes MORE than Haden to equalize them. If you want to take ALL of HF cupcakes then you have to take ALL of KF cupcakes. That makes it 138 out of 266 which gets KF down to 52%.
 
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Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
15,804
21,340
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Bad math on your part. You have to subtract 42 from KFs wins, not 27. I was just adjusting Kirk down to Hayden. So KF would be

Bad stats you used. I just subtracted KF cupcakes MORE than Haden to equalize them. If you want to take ALL of HF cupcakes then you have to take ALL of KF cupcakes. That makes it 138 out of 266 which gets KF down to 52%.
My bad - used the 27 "more" instead of 43.
 

blhawk

HR Heisman
Oct 30, 2001
5,609
7,916
113
The Big Ten has been much tougher from top to bottom during Kirk's tenure, so I would disagree with your conclusion.
The big ten got watered down with Rutgers, MD, and Nebraska but Kirk doesn't play the big ten top to bottom, he plays in the big ten west where he gets to duck Michigan and OSU quite a bit unlike Hayden. Michigan state was very good under Perles and Illinois was WAY better than they have been. Wisc and NW both got good in the 90's and Penn St joined in 93. Add nonconference and its not even comparable who played tougher schedules
 
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VodkaSam

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Sep 28, 2013
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The big ten got watered down with Rutgers, MD, and Nebraska but Kirk doesn't play the big ten top to bottom, he plays in the big ten west where he gets to duck Michigan and OSU quite a bit unlike Hayden. Michigan state was very good under Perles and Illinois was WAY better than they have been. Wisc and NW both got good in the 90's and Penn St joined in 93. Add nonconference and its not even comparable who played tougher schedules
Yes, and if Kirk were coaching in the BIG East Division, he would be at or near the bottom every year. Hayden didn’t get the cupcakes of Maryland and Rutgers that Kirk has been given, with a bonus of avoiding Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State most years.
 

Frosty7130

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Gold Member
Oct 11, 2012
4,265
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South Dakota
The big ten got watered down with Rutgers, MD, and Nebraska but Kirk doesn't play the big ten top to bottom, he plays in the big ten west where he gets to duck Michigan and OSU quite a bit unlike Hayden. Michigan state was very good under Perles and Illinois was WAY better than they have been. Wisc and NW both got good in the 90's and Penn St joined in 93. Add nonconference and its not even comparable who played tougher schedules
This is at best, woefully misinformed.

Perle's best seasons with MSU were 9-2-1 and 8-3-1. They were unquestionably better under Dantonio.

Illinois won 10 games twice during HF's tenure and then only went better than 7-5 once more.

Wisconsin and NW, didn't just "get good" during the 90s, they were outright horrible for the majority of HF's tenure. The former has been at that level for the entirety of KF's tenure, and the latter has been unquestionably better under Fitzgerald.

KF has played just as many, if not more, good Penn State teams than HF.

HF's nonconference schedules were more varied, but remarkably less so after 1984 when Iowa stopped being a buy-game for big schools once Hayden had turned the corner. The one major difference is that ISU was also unquestionably worse during HF's tenure.

The idea that either coach's schedules were that much better than the others is pure BS.
 
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farina1

HR MVP
Gold Member
Mar 17, 2021
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Even if you think that, Kirk hasn't played the top teams as often as Hayden did. The main difference is Kirk is practically given two wins every year in the nonconference. Many years Hayden would face a team he could lose to every single week.
Yes
 

BonzoFury

HR All-State
Feb 4, 2022
862
1,734
93
So as Dragnet said : Just the facts maam.
So here they are:
HAYDEN --------------------
OK, NEB
Iowa State, AZ
Neb, ISU, UCLA
ISU, NEB, AZ
ISU, Penn State
ISU, Penn state, Hawaii
Drake, ISU, N. Ill.
ISU, N. Ill, UTEP
Tenn, ISU, AZ, K State
Hawaii, K State, ISU, Co.
Oregon, Tulsa, ISU
Hawaii, K State, Co, ISU
CinCi, ISU, Miami
Hawaii, N. Ill, ISU
NC St, Miami, ISU, Co.
1993 - Tulsa, ISU, N. Ill 9 B1G games
C. Ill, ISU
N. Ill, ISU, New Mexico St. Only 8 B1G Games ?????
AZ,ISU, Tulsa
N Ill, ISU, Tulsa
C Mich, ISU, AZ
16 Non power 5 (approximately, as they move around) in 21 years

Kirk ---------------------------------------
Neb, ISU, N Ill
K state, ISU, W. Mich
Kent State, Miami (OH), ISU
Akron, ISU, Miami (OH), Utah St
Miami(OH), Buffalo, ISU
Kent State, ISU, Az State
Ball state, ISU, N. Iowa
Montana, ISU, Syracuse
N Ill, ISU, Syracuse
Maine, Fl International, ISU, Pitt
N. Iowa, AZ, ISU
E. Ill, ISU, AZ, Ball State
Tenn State, ISU, Pitt, That power Lousiana-Monroe
N. Iowa, ISU, N. Ill, Central Mich
N. Ill, ISU, Missouri State, W. Mich
N. Ill, Ball state, ISU, Pitt
Ill. State, ISU, Pitt, North Texas
Miami (OH), ISU, N. Dakota St
Wy, N. Texas, ISU
N. Ill, ISU, N Iowa
ISU, Miami (OH), Middle Tenn State
NO OOC covid
ISU, Kent State, Colorado State
S. Dakota St, ISU, Nevada
=== 43 2nd Tier teams in 24 years.

So Kirk has had 27 MORE cupcake games that Hayden.

That is a little over 1 gimme a year. So subtract 27 games from Kirks record, and you get 181 - 27 = 154 wins and 112 losses. That is a little less than 58%. Hayden won right at 60% of Iowa games and if you throw out the 6 ties, it was 68%. So regardless of what the scores were, Hayden is best in my opinion.
Both were great in their way. (though KFz is rapidly undermining the good things he's done) There's no question that KFz's record benefited from more non-con cupcakes.
 
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IANit

Scout Team
Dec 7, 2002
144
92
28
Fry has a better Big Ten winning % while playing Ohio State and Michigan most years. Kirk's faced Ohio St a total of 3 times since 2010, and has benefited from a weak Big Ten West and lesser Michigan program. That's before even mentioning the automatic MAC and FCS wins Kirk is gifted every season. Hayden played mostly 11 game schedules and most years all 3 nonconference games were against power 5 teams. Hayden's resume is much better than Kirk's.
Hayden also had a ton of future D1 coaches on his staff. You could argue that Hayden prepared them all, but I'd guess there was a little bit of luck involved in having that much talent on one staff. Some were arguably better coaches than Fry in their own right.
.
 

cecilB

HR Heisman
Nov 1, 2001
6,873
1,484
113
coach positions that his son had NO experience coaching.

Neither would Coach Fry would let a coach keep their job when their unit was the worst in the entire country.

Frye was battling cancer his final years at Iowa and had the integrity to resign.

Iowa football needs that kind of integrity soon.
His sons weren’t coaches. He did hire the boyfriend of his daughter once
 

cecilB

HR Heisman
Nov 1, 2001
6,873
1,484
113
And you know all this how?? Fry was also slipping mentally and it was showing. He got nudged along and didn't just decide that himself. And by the way if Fry had a son that he thought was a good hire he would have done it in a minute. You go on with your BS.
You don’t have any idea how much you don’t know