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Garza, Garza, Garza!!!

Hawk_4shur said:
I have no idea if this is a good thing for Garza, or how he feels about it. So, I could be way off.

But, the idea that he now gets to pick a better situation than Detroit sounds pretty good to me. I hope he has lots of opportunities to pick from.
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Agreed. I don't think he'll ever be a star in the NBA, or even a regular starter. But in his first season he proved that he does belong there for now. And he should only get better over the next few years as he continues working on footspeed, conditioning, and knowledge/experience. I don't know if there is a single player in the NBA that will outwork him as he works to improve.
 
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Ronman said:
I realize that Luka's skill set doesn't match the typical NBA player, but he is skilled, works hard and proved he could play in the league. I just don't think Casey gave him much of a chance.
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Offensively his skill set is perfect as a floor spacing 5 but defensively its the opposite.

Thats why I think he works best for a coach that wants to expand into doing more zone. You see it more every year now.
 
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RocknRollface said:
Offensively his skill set is perfect as a floor spacing 5 but defensively its the opposite.

Thats why I think he works best for a coach that wants to expand into doing more zone. You see it more every year now.
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I'm trying to remember specifics because I didn't see all of their games, but I'm pretty sure Dallas just gave up playing man part of the way through the playoffs.
 
RocknRollface said:
I said it before he was drafted he needs to be on a team that plays some zone.

It's becoming more of a trend recently.

He would be perfect for a team that wants to counter an opponent going super small on offense like the warriors do.

Play zone on defense and let Luka kill a forward on the block for 5 or 6 possessions then get him out.

Hell never be able to be a big minutes player because he's to much of a weakness in man to man defense.
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Your last comment nails it. And thr problem isn't guarding centers, the problem is all of the switches the NBA does on screens. Every NBA team will try to force a switch with him to get him on a wing, then either drive on him or a jab step/3.
 
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SSG T said:
Your last comment nails it. And thr problem isn't guarding centers, the problem is all of the switches the NBA does on screens. Every NBA team will try to force a switch with him to get him on a wing, then either drive on him or a jab step/3.
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Yeah, there is virtually no post play anymore.

The Warriors were playing 5 guards at times.

I do think going that super small is going
to be countered at some point.
 
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SSG T said:
I'm trying to remember specifics because I didn't see all of their games, but I'm pretty sure Dallas just gave up playing man part of the way through the playoffs.
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They played some zone but mostly man.

Miami did beat Philly partly because of their zone. Spolstra made Doc rivers look like an idiot by defending Embid with guards and the 76ers had no clue how to get him the ball.

I could see Garza in Dallas since they do play some zone and if anyone can help you defensively its Jason Kidd.
 
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RocknRollface said:
Yeah, there is virtually no post play anymore.

The Warriors were playing 5 guards at times.

I do think going that super small is going
to be countered at some point.
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Playing big is now being super long and athletic, not like Garza unfortunately. Idk what the next iteration of the nba will be but I have a feeling that spreading the floor with shooters and playing “small” will be here to stay for a long while. I doubt we ever go back to pre 2010 basketball.
 
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BrunoMars420 said:
Playing big is now being super long and athletic, not like Garza unfortunately. Idk what the next iteration of the nba will be but I have a feeling that spreading the floor with shooters and playing “small” will be here to stay for a long while. I doubt we ever go back to pre 2010 basketball.
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Super athletic like the guy who just won back to back mvps? (Yeah, I know he's an outlier)

Im not talking about a shift in style of the league im talking potential strategy in a 7 game series.

When a team is playing 5 guards some coach will eventually make the appropriate counter to that even though it's not what their offense does.

It usually takes 3 or 4 possessions for a team to adjust to a zone defense. If you can throw a guy like Garza out there in a zone for 3 minutes when the opponent is torching your man with a super small lineup he can get you 2 or 3 automatic baskets on the block against a guy whos 6'7.

You combine that with 2 or 3 stops using a zone and that can be enough to change the outcome of a close game.

The Celtics tried doing this at times in the finals with Horford but he's not a capable scorer on the block anymore.

I could see a role developing on the right team for a guy like Garza for specific situations where they want to force a team out of going super small and considering he's also a knock down 3pt shooter you can run your regular stuff too.
 
RocknRollface said:
Super athletic like the guy who just won back to back mvps? (Yeah, I know he's an outlier)

Im not talking about a shift in style of the league im talking potential strategy in a 7 game series.

When a team is playing 5 guards some coach will eventually make the appropriate counter to that even though it's not what their offense does.

It usually takes 3 or 4 possessions for a team to adjust to a zone defense. If you can throw a guy like Garza out there in a zone for 3 minutes when the opponent is torching your man with a super small lineup he can get you 2 or 3 automatic baskets on the block against a guy whos 6'7.

You combine that with 2 or 3 stops using a zone and that can be enough to change the outcome of a close game.

The Celtics tried doing this at times in the finals with Horford but he's not a capable scorer on the block anymore.

I could see a role developing on the right team for a guy like Garza for specific situations where they want to force a team out of going super small and considering he's also a knock down 3pt shooter you can run your regular stuff too.
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“When a team is playing 5 guards some coach will eventually make the appropriate counter to that even though it's not what their offense does.”

You don’t think this has happened on multiple occasions with all kinds of different lineups the past decade? Small ball has been king for the past decade and the only way to defend it is to match it with longer more athletic guards that can guard and shoot haha. It’s a positionless game in the NBA unless you have a modern 5 like Giannis or AD.

Last 10 champions are warriors (4), LeBrons Cavs (1), LeBrons heat (2), the Raptors, The bucks, and LeBrons Lakers.

Every one of these teams best lineup was without a traditional 5 other than the Raptors. The Garza’s of the NBA are no more which sucks for Luka but that’s the state of the game.
 
BrunoMars420 said:
“When a team is playing 5 guards some coach will eventually make the appropriate counter to that even though it's not what their offense does.”

You don’t think this has happened on multiple occasions with all kinds of different lineups the past decade? Small ball has been king for the past decade and the only way to defend it is to match it with longer more athletic guards that can guard and shoot haha. It’s a positionless game in the NBA unless you have a modern 5 like Giannis or AD.

Last 10 champions are warriors (4), LeBrons Cavs (1), LeBrons heat (2), the Raptors, The bucks, and LeBrons Lakers.

Every one of these teams best lineup was without a traditional 5 other than the Raptors. The Garza’s of the NBA are no more which sucks for Luka but that’s the state of the game.
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Are you in love with bron bron? He's a puke
 
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BrunoMars420 said:
“When a team is playing 5 guards some coach will eventually make the appropriate counter to that even though it's not what their offense does.”

You don’t think this has happened on multiple occasions with all kinds of different lineups the past decade? Small ball has been king for the past decade and the only way to defend it is to match it with longer more athletic guards that can guard and shoot haha. It’s a positionless game in the NBA unless you have a modern 5 like Giannis or AD.

Last 10 champions are warriors (4), LeBrons Cavs (1), LeBrons heat (2), the Raptors, The bucks, and LeBrons Lakers.

Every one of these teams best lineup was without a traditional 5 other than the Raptors. The Garza’s of the NBA are no more which sucks for Luka but that’s the state of the game.
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I don't think you know enough about the details of the game to understand what I'm talking about.

A few examples.

Giannis starts at the 3 for Milwaukee not the 5. Lopez is the 5 and was on the floor most of the time in their championship season.

AD doesn't play the 5 that often for the Lakers.

Playing a small ball 5 and going 5 guards is not at all the same thing. Very few teams are going 5 guards until recently.

No, playing zone in any serious way is not something thats been done in the nba until recently.

This is basic stuff.

I have no interest in generalities about small ball being king as if everyone didn't know that 10 years ago. Its not a real basketball discussion and its definitely not edgy. Its boring.
 
RocknRollface said:
I don't think you know enough about the details of the game to understand what I'm talking about.

A few examples.

Giannis starts at the 3 for Milwaukee not the 5. Lopez is the 5 and was on the floor most of the time in their championship season.

AD doesn't play the 5 that often for the Lakers.

Playing a small ball 5 and going 5 guards is not at all the same thing. Very few teams are going 5 guards until recently.

No, playing zone in any serious way is not something thats been done in the nba until recently.

This is basic stuff.

I have no interest in generalities about small ball being king as if everyone didn't know that 10 years ago. Its not a real basketball discussion and its definitely not edgy. Its boring.
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I know plenty about the game. Also Giannis plays the 4 whenever Lopez starts and I stated “every one of those teams best lineup…” not their starting lineup. Basic reading comprehension.

This past year the Lakers were going to us AD at the 5 more than the 4. And they were at their best with him at the 5.

Also name a team that has gone 5 guards and that lineup? Or have their best lineup as 5 guards?
 
BrunoMars420 said:
I know plenty about the game. Also Giannis plays the 4 whenever Lopez starts and I stated “every one of those teams best lineup…” not their starting lineup. Basic reading comprehension.

This past year the Lakers were going to us AD at the 5 more than the 4. And they were at their best with him at the 5.

Also name a team that has gone 5 guards and that lineup? Or have their best lineup as 5 guards?
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You called Giannis a modern 5 when he rarely plays the 5 for his team.

Lopez always starts and Bobby Portis starts at the 4 this year.

The Warriors go 5 guards and the Clippers did it last year in the playoffs.

You can argue whether Draymond Green/Wiggins/Porter and Nick Batum/Morris are guards but they effectively play as guards on offense.

If you don't think that someone will eventually try a different strategy against teams that go super small, thats fine. (The Celtics were already dabbling in it but they don't have the right guys)

But talking in generalities about small ball isn't a discussion that has any interest to me. Its not a compelling point.

The fact is teams are just starting to use zone now and that opens up new possibilities.
 
RocknRollface said:
You called Giannis a modern 5 when he rarely plays the 5 for his team.

Lopez always starts and Bobby Portis starts at the 4 this year.

The Warriors go 5 guards and the Clippers did it last year in the playoffs.

You can argue whether Draymond Green/Wiggins/Porter and Nick Batum/Morris are guards but they effectively play as guards on offense.

If you don't think that someone will eventually try a different strategy against teams that go super small, thats fine. (The Celtics were already dabbling in it but they don't have the right guys)

But talking in generalities about small ball isn't a discussion that has any interest to me. Its not a compelling point.

The fact is teams are just starting to use zone now and that opens up new possibilities.
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So after 20 years of zone being legal in the NBA they are just starting to use zone defense, #interesting
 
RocknRollface said:
You called Giannis a modern 5 when he rarely plays the 5 for his team.

Lopez always starts and Bobby Portis starts at the 4 this year.

The Warriors go 5 guards and the Clippers did it last year in the playoffs.

You can argue whether Draymond Green/Wiggins/Porter and Nick Batum/Morris are guards but they effectively play as guards on offense.

If you don't think that someone will eventually try a different strategy against teams that go super small, thats fine. (The Celtics were already dabbling in it but they don't have the right guys)

But talking in generalities about small ball isn't a discussion that has any interest to me. Its not a compelling point.

The fact is teams are just starting to use zone now and that opens up new possibilities.
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Giannis played over 30% of his minutes at the 5 this season.
 
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BrunoMars420 said:
So after 20 years of zone being legal in the NBA they are just starting to use zone defense, #interesting
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Are you suggesting thats not accurate?

Because almost no coach has made zone a serious part of their game plan until recently.

I've never seen a zone in the finals until this year.
 
Everyone understands the league is trending smaller every year, has been for a decade and will continue to.

My only point is I'm guessing there will be some new counters to that strategy tried when 5 guard lineups become the norm.

You could already see it starting to happen in the finals games.
 
RocknRollface said:
Are you suggesting thats not accurate?

Because almost no coach has made zone a serious part of their game plan until recently.

I've never seen a zone in the finals until this year.
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Did you not watch the Heat in the finals a couple of years ago?
 
BrunoMars420 said:
Did you not watch the Heat in the finals a couple of years ago?
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Actually no, I didn't watch much of the bubble year but doesn't surprise me.

I did forgot that Nurse has been using zone for a few years.

Still its a recent thing but becoming more common.
 
Tylerl_28 said:
You said he rarely plays the 5, which the %s show is inaccurate,
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Why would we only go by this year?

That hasn't been the time period being discussed.

Calling Giannis a "modern 5" is not an accurate statement.

He could play that spot but thats not what usually happens.
 
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