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Gee, I Wonder if the LIV Tour hears what Monahan/PGA Tour announced today?

joelbc1

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you can’t always get what you want!
Monahan announced (lots) MORE $$, more guaranteed elite fields in PGA events (16) and $500k guarantee to Tour rookies.....and asked if the Tour would allow LIV players to "re-join" the Tour, his answer was a very firm, "No".......
This is going to get very interesting......The Tour's position is "these players have made their commitment".....
 
Monahan announced (lots) MORE $$, more guaranteed elite fields in PGA events (16) and $500k guarantee to Tour rookies.....and asked if the Tour would allow LIV players to "re-join" the Tour, his answer was a very firm, "No".......
This is going to get very interesting......The Tour's position is "these players have made their commitment".....
Saying "No" was the correct answer from a legal standpoint. If he takes that opportunity to ask the players who left for LIV to come back, players that have signed multi-year contracts with LIV, he'd be setting the Tour up for a tortious interference suit from LIV.
 
They should still be eligible for Ryder cup/presidents cup.

I don't want to be asking myself "what if all Americans/europeans were eligible?" I'd rather have them all play regardless of what tour they align with apart from the global competition.
 
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Would this have happened without the formation of LIV ?

sort of like executing the soldiers after they win you the war.
I don't think the Tour is in the wrong with the way they conducted their business. It's the Player's tour and they could have enacted these changes at any moment if they would have banded together and agreed to do so. I think what it took was the LIV threat to bring them all together and get on the same page to do it though. SO yeah, these changes might have all happened eventually but LIV warp speeded the process up.

People seem to have this image of the PGA Tour having a fat cat owner represented by Jay Monahan that sits back and counts their money will screwing the poor players over. The Players have the power to run the Tour, it's on them to make the rules.
 
as i've said before, I honestly don't care much who wins here, but the reality is that a new entrant has forced an entrenched monopolist (and a so-called nonprofit one at that) to innovate. so for that, i say, thank you, liv.
 
This is the very reason the PGA didn't want the LIV tour, competition. This is why competition is always good. No strikes required, holdouts or ultimatums, just good old fashioned competition. This saved the NFL in the 60's with the AFL and in the 80's with the USFL and it is happening now in the soccer world. The PGA just got greedy and didn't want to have to compromise or change but it happened anyway because of competition.
 
Would have been better had he said any LIV player has 60 days to rejoin the PGA but toast after that
 
This is the very reason the PGA didn't want the LIV tour, competition. This is why competition is always good. No strikes required, holdouts or ultimatums, just good old fashioned competition. This saved the NFL in the 60's with the AFL and in the 80's with the USFL and it is happening now in the soccer world. The PGA just got greedy and didn't want to have to compromise or change but it happened anyway because of competition.
At least for me, the competition isn't the problem, it's who is providing the money that is the problem.
 
So the PGA starts to feel the heat from the competition and immediately throws a ton of cash at the problem?

Huh, maybe Mickelson was right.

Prior to those published comments, Mickelson was quoted on the record by John Huggan of Golf Digest in February, calling out the PGA Tour for “obnoxious greed’’ in his quest to push the tour to take better financial care of its players, particularly the stars who drive the tour.

Mickelson called out the PGA Tour as the gatekeepers of “roughly $20 billion” in media assets and “hundreds of millions of digital moments” that rightfully belong to the players.
 
What I take from today's announcement is the Tour realizes there's a lot of money they are leaving on the table.

Now the top players are going to half to work a little harder, play 20 instead of just 15 events. But make more money, too.

Of course, LIV might just shrug this off and up the ante again. Still comes down to the majors and the player pipeline questions for me.
 
This is what the Tour should have done from the start.

Took Dad (Tiger) to come in and get this right. Really liked Jay saying that the LIV golfers will not be welcomed back.
I agree with the part about not welcoming the LIV players back.

But what they are proposing is BAD for the PGA Tour as a whole. Elite fields with more money and no cuts. That takes the journeymen Pro's out of the equation who are ALSO PGA Tour Members, and reduces the fan and sponsors interest in those "other" 30 events where you may currently have a cross section of stars. None of those "stars" will show up under that proposal. Bad.

Tiger said "you earn it in the dirt", and if that's really true you do that with Full Fields contested over 72 holes with a cut (there are a few exceptions). The 200th ranked Golfer in the world is still pretty damn good, and certainly capable of getting hot for one week and taking out Tiger, Rory, Scottie, etc. That primarily goes away with this proposal.

This "elite field" stuff is just more of the same old same old. The rich getting richer. It's not how the PGA Tour and it's members set this up many decades ago.

Meritocracy is the PGA Tours greatest asset. Every player earns what he gets. (see Gary Van Sickle article from SI).
 
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I agree with the part about not welcoming the LIV players back.

But what they are proposing is BAD for the PGA Tour as a whole. Elite fields with more money and no cuts. That takes the journeymen Pro's out of the equation who are ALSO PGA Tour Members, and reduces the fan and sponsors interest in those "other" 30 events where you may currently have a cross section of stars. None of those "stars" will show up under that proposal. Bad.

Tiger said "you earn it in the dirt", and if that's really true you do with that with Full Fields contested over 72 holes with a cut (there are a few exceptions). The 200th ranked Golfer in the world is still pretty damn good, and certainly capable of getting hot for one week and taking out Tiger, Rory, Scottie, etc. That primarily goes away with this proposal.

This "elite field" stuff is just more of the same old same old. The rich getting richer. It's not how the PGA Tour and it's members set this up many decades ago.

Meritocracy is the PGA Tours greatest asset. Every player earns what he gets. (see Gary Van Sickle article from SI).

I think you still earn it. You don’t get the hall pass until you get to a certain world ranking. That’s not just given away. And if you play bad for a year, you fall outside the elite and have to play the other events for a while.

I think you will end up with a tweak or two that may require the superstars to play a few normal events.

But it also would be cool to have some different types of events than straight stroke play. I like the New Orleans team event. I liked the Colorado event with the Stableford system. I’d like to see more match play tournaments too.
 
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I think you still earn it. You don’t get the hall pass until you get to a certain world ranking. That’s not just given away. And if you play bad for a year, you fall outside the elite and have to play the other events for a while.

I think you will end up with a tweak or two that may require the superstars to play a few normal events.

But it also would be cool to have some different types of events than straight stroke play. I like the New Orleans team event. I liked the Colorado event with the Stableford system. I’d like to see more match play tournaments too.
They're glorified exhibition's then, just like LIV golf (except 72 holes). Yeah, you get there by a points ranking system, which isn't much different than LIV currently is, because if and when Cam Smith gets added, bye-bye Pat Perez or one of the other lesser known no name guys (48 is the Field, each new "stud" added means Joey Journeyman is gone).

I'm fine with some variation on the PGA Tour as well, Match Play, 2 guy team's, etc., but it is limited, as it should be. The U.S.A. is involved in Team Golf every year, and you "earn" your way onto those Team's (or be best buds with the Captain and still play relevant golf as the last pick).

I like to see the studs dueling down the stretch as much as anybody, but I also love to see Bob May playing out of his mind and matching Tiger Woods shot for shot. (May wasn't a slouch by any means but not a household name at the time).

I'm not a fan of the current proposal. It's overkill in reaction to LIV, and bad for the overall nature of PGA Tournament Golf IMO. You'll never be able to keep up financially, but don't water down the product so it's unrecognizable.
 
This is the very reason the PGA didn't want the LIV tour, competition. This is why competition is always good. No strikes required, holdouts or ultimatums, just good old fashioned competition. This saved the NFL in the 60's with the AFL and in the 80's with the USFL and it is happening now in the soccer world. The PGA just got greedy and didn't want to have to compromise or change but it happened anyway because of competition.

Except it's not competition. LIV didn't enter the market to compete for the profit margin. It used Saudi money it has no hope of recovering in the marketplace for other reasons.

It's like Airbus vs. Boeing on steroids.
 
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They're glorified exhibition's then, just like LIV golf (except 72 holes). Yeah, you get there by a points ranking system, which isn't much different than LIV currently is, because if and when Cam Smith gets added, bye-bye Pat Perez or one of the other lesser known no name guys (48 is the Field, each new "stud" added means Joey Journeyman is gone).

I'm fine with some variation on the PGA Tour as well, Match Play, 2 guy team's, etc., but it is limited, as it should be. The U.S.A. is involved in Team Golf every year, and you "earn" your way onto those Team's (or be best buds with the Captain and still play relevant golf as the last pick).

I like to see the studs dueling down the stretch as much as anybody, but I also love to see Bob May playing out of his mind and matching Tiger Woods shot for shot. (May wasn't a slouch by any means but not a household name at the time).

I'm not a fan of the current proposal. It's overkill in reaction to LIV, and bad for the overall nature of PGA Tournament Golf IMO. You'll never be able to keep up financially, but don't water down the product so it's unrecognizable.

I guess I am missing your point that the PGA Tour events will be watered down. Events with almost all of the top players in the world aren't watered down in my view. Am I missing something in the new PGA proposal?
 
Maybe if the soldiers were traitors who ran to the other side because they would pay them more.

I love the company I work for, love the benefits, the pay, the bonus, and all the other little perks that comes with it.

If a competitor comes along and offers me 4 or 5 times the money...I am now running to the other side because they will pay me more.
 
Would have been better had he said any LIV player has 60 days to rejoin the PGA but toast after that
I think the professional golf tour rides hard on its "word"....harder than other sports and most other businesses. The guys that "left" for LIV, broke their word/promise with the PGA Tour. I think Cam Smith is really gonna regret his LIV decision..at this time he seems to be the player with the highest sky and therefore, the most to lose. Ernie Ells told him not to move. But maybe, if he backs away before playing LIV he can salvage some sort of "suspension" and rejoin......but this is rather ominous. The Tour has a lot of juice...more than most folks understand.
 
I love the company I work for, love the benefits, the pay, the bonus, and all the other little perks that comes with it.

If a competitor comes along and offers me 4 or 5 times the money...I am now running to the other side because they will pay me more.
And?
 

Just responding to your idea that they are "traitors" because they took a higher paying job.

Happens every day.

Do you consider Raghib Ismail a traitor since he signed a larger contract than anyone in NFL history had - to play in the CFL?
 
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I guess I am missing your point that the PGA Tour events will be watered down. Events with almost all of the top players in the world aren't watered down in my view. Am I missing something in the new PGA proposal?
Point being there are far more than 30 PGA Tour Members - all the decisions should include all PGA Tour Members.
 
Except it's not competition. LIV didn't enter the market to compete for the profit margin. It used Saudi money it has no hope of recovering in the marketplace for other reasons.

It's like Airbus vs. Boeing on steroids.
Respectfully, that’s silly. If it weren’t, pga wouldn’t have responded.

beyond that, there are sports owners that run a team to make money, like Dan Snyder. There are others that do it to get their rocks off. Doesn’t make them less competitors.
 
Respectfully, that’s silly. If it weren’t, pga wouldn’t have responded.

beyond that, there are sports owners that run a team to make money, like Dan Snyder. There are others that do it to get their rocks off. Doesn’t make them less competitors.

I don't mean they aren't competitors in the AT sense of the word.

But the LIV Tour can't make a profit or even exist for long based on what they are paying golfers. Their subsidies from the SA wealth fund is the only thing that allows them to offer these salaries.

Same theory Boeing said was unfair about competition from Airbus - that it was unfair that Europe was subsidizing Airbus.
 
I don't mean they aren't competitors in the AT sense of the word.

But the LIV Tour can't make a profit or even exist for long based on what they are paying golfers. Their subsidies from the SA wealth fund is the only thing that allows them to offer these salaries.

Same theory Boeing said was unfair about competition from Airbus - that it was unfair that Europe was subsidizing Airbus.
I get that but other than duration that’s not unlike any other startup.
 
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The first one is probably referring to the multi-billion dollar broadcast rights deals with the networks and the ‘digital moments’ is referring to things like a red-shirted Tiger doing the fist pump that they play over and over?
So, for the first one, where does that money go? The PGA doesn't keep it do they?

As far as digital moments, I assume the player contract with the PGA spells out who owns those.
 
So, for the first one, where does that money go? The PGA doesn't keep it do they?

As far as digital moments, I assume the player contract with the PGA spells out who owns those.
Phil was certainly exaggerating some; but the pga is probably also less than transparent.

“Media rights is a big thing,” Woods said on Wednesday. "A lot of us are concerned about what is the direction, where we're going and how can we have more control over that. There's been a lot of talk from whether it's the PAC or the board or from players internally. Everyone has their opinion about it, but we need to come to a collective decision.”
 
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Phil was certainly exaggerating some; but the pga is probably also less than transparent.

“Media rights is a big thing,” Woods said on Wednesday. "A lot of us are concerned about what is the direction, where we're going and how can we have more control over that. There's been a lot of talk from whether it's the PAC or the board or from players internally. Everyone has their opinion about it, but we need to come to a collective decision.”
Thanks for posting the article. Seems like the author is objective.
 
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