George Floyd arrest body cam videos out

Saint Louis Attorney

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Apr 26, 2016
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I know that the backlash against the "defund the police" is a big political point for the right wingers, but, man, give me one good reason why taxpayer money should go to continuing to fund crap like this and the system designed to protect it? Especially the abuse of government power...aren't conservatives supposed to be against an overreaching government?
 

ottumwan in tx

HR King
Oct 26, 2002
103,658
16,385
113
I know that the backlash against the "defund the police" is a big political point for the right wingers, but, man, give me one good reason why taxpayer money should go to continuing to fund crap like this and the system designed to protect it? Especially the abuse of government power...aren't conservatives supposed to be against an overreaching government?
conservatives are 100% against fed over reach by the US government, usually peace officers or police officers are not considered to be legit by most libertarians and conservatives. they are generally under the control of communist mayors. the county sheriff is who we generally look to as the main law enforcement, he even takes the cake over the feds. usually.
 

Finance85

HR Heisman
Oct 22, 2003
8,066
6,844
113
I know that the backlash against the "defund the police" is a big political point for the right wingers, but, man, give me one good reason why taxpayer money should go to continuing to fund crap like this and the system designed to protect it? Especially the abuse of government power...aren't conservatives supposed to be against an overreaching government?
I don't think anyone believes taxpayer money should go to fund police abuse. Defunding police departments isn't the answer. Proper screening of candidates, training, and no tolerance for abuse is a better answer. The only way police budgets should be cut is if the war on drugs is tapered.
 

Run&Blade

HR Legend
May 6, 2005
35,373
18,223
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I know that the backlash against the "defund the police" is a big political point for the right wingers, but, man, give me one good reason why taxpayer money should go to continuing to fund crap like this and the system designed to protect it? Especially the abuse of government power...aren't conservatives supposed to be against an overreaching government?
Somebody is beating the shit out of their kids and threatening their wife with a knife. You telling me a community activist is what is needed? Care to find one willing to walk into deadly situations without somebody with a gun ?

since police have been told to back off, several major cities starting experiencing unprecedented violence.
 

Saint Louis Attorney

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Apr 26, 2016
5,736
8,521
113
I don't think anyone believes taxpayer money should go to fund police abuse. Defunding police departments isn't the answer. Proper screening of candidates, training, and no tolerance for abuse is a better answer. The only way police budgets should be cut is if the war on drugs is tapered.
..
There is no "no tolerance" without defunding and rebuilding. That's the point.

The police have contracts with unions and defined review processes that make reform literally (using that word correctly) impossible. It's why reformer Chiefs have and always will fail; the system is designed specifically to make reform impossible. Only a new system can lead to reform.

People that oppose defunding may not realize that they are arguing against anti-abuse reform, but that's exactly what they are doing.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
22,691
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I don't think anyone believes taxpayer money should go to fund police abuse. Defunding police departments isn't the answer. Proper screening of candidates, training, and no tolerance for abuse is a better answer. The only way police budgets should be cut is if the war on drugs is tapered.
I agree. And the war on drugs does need to go away.
 

ottumwan in tx

HR King
Oct 26, 2002
103,658
16,385
113
..
There is no "no tolerance" without defunding and rebuilding. That's the point.

The police have contracts with unions and defined review processes that make reform literally (using that word correctly) impossible. It's why reformer Chiefs have and always will fail; the system is designed specifically to make reform impossible. Only a new system can lead to reform.

People that oppose defunding may not realize that they are arguing against anti-abuse reform, but that's exactly what they are doing.
most of us see there is no real widespread abuse, only a few cases here and there. not enough for widespread system reform. but this is an election year.
 

ping72

HR Legend
Jan 14, 2009
23,274
23,674
113
conservatives are 100% against fed over reach by the US government, usually peace officers or police officers are not considered to be legit by most libertarians and conservatives. they are generally under the control of communist mayors. the county sheriff is who we generally look to as the main law enforcement, he even takes the cake over the feds. usually.
link to list of communist party mayors in the US that control most of the police officers?
 
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Saint Louis Attorney

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Apr 26, 2016
5,736
8,521
113
Somebody is beating the shit out of their kids and threatening their wife with a knife. You telling me a community activist is what is needed? Care to find one willing to walk into deadly situations without somebody with a gun ?

since police have been told to back off, several major cities starting experiencing unprecedented violence.
Actually, in the 25 largest cities, violent crime is down slightly v. last year. The "unprecedented violence" claim is absolute horseshit. Violent crime was MUCH higher in the 80's and 90's. In general, crime is at lows not seen in many decades. Unfortunately, people like being fearful so they overstate the crime threat.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...nced-crime-is-rising-in-the-u-s-theyre-wrong/
 

RileyHawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2002
23,231
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Somebody is beating the shit out of their kids and threatening their wife with a knife. You telling me a community activist is what is needed? Care to find one willing to walk into deadly situations without somebody with a gun ?

since police have been told to back off, several major cities starting experiencing unprecedented violence.
In situations like that police would be called like they have been. We simply don't need police to make traffic stops or welfare calls or any number of other activities that have fallen to them but they are not suited to perform.

And we need to have police that don't use excessive force or target people of color.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
22,691
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I have not seen any original tapes nor these. I know this is all just because it's an election year and it's 2020 , of course i am routing for trump to win because these clowns over play the race card all the time.
I disagree with the left on plenty.

Trump is still the biggest clown to disgrace the Oval Office. And while it's true the left overplays the race card, it is also true people on the right can be too dismissive of it. Both sides form their opinions or "facts" on their feelings. And rest assured, OIT, it's your feelings that feed your unwavering support of Trump the same as it's your feelings that dismiss racism every time the subject is bought up.

You are all about your feelings, OIT. There is minimal to no logic involved for you.
 

ottumwan in tx

HR King
Oct 26, 2002
103,658
16,385
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I disagree with the left on plenty.

Trump is still the biggest clown to disgrace the Oval Office. And while it's true the left overplays the race card, it is also true people on the right can be too dismissive of it. Both sides form their opinions or "facts" on their feelings. And rest assured, OIT, it's your feelings that feed your unwavering support of Trump the same as it's your feelings that dismiss racism every time the subject is bought up.

You are all about your feelings, OIT. There is minimal to no logic involved for you.
I have been a salesman all my life, we sell on feelings and never logic.
 
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ottumwan in tx

HR King
Oct 26, 2002
103,658
16,385
113
Actually, in the 25 largest cities, violent crime is down slightly v. last year. The "unprecedented violence" claim is absolute horseshit. Violent crime was MUCH higher in the 80's and 90's. In general, crime is at lows not seen in many decades. Unfortunately, people like being fearful so they overstate the crime threat.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...nced-crime-is-rising-in-the-u-s-theyre-wrong/
538 is thee bigest piece of crap, maybe bigger than snopes
 

Fluffles

HR MVP
Feb 26, 2019
1,591
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Somebody is beating the shit out of their kids and threatening their wife with a knife. You telling me a community activist is what is needed? Care to find one willing to walk into deadly situations without somebody with a gun ?

since police have been told to back off, several major cities starting experiencing unprecedented violence.
Conversely, if someone is having a mental health emergency should we continue to send a couple high school graduates with guns (and expect positive outcomes) or instead a mental health professional along with fewer police officers. Again, defunding the police is poor terminology but it entails diverting resources to appropriate professionals—it’s not like armed police officers won’t be around to respond to high risk calls.
 

ottumwan in tx

HR King
Oct 26, 2002
103,658
16,385
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I understand you saying that because they rely on facts.
the 538 dude started out on sports betting, I think it was baseball. I am not big on betting so I know little about sports betting, but anywho when he switched to politics he screwed up bigly. I couldn't tell you how well he did with sports, but he screwed himself in politics. snopes is a man and wife in their basement with cats all around them.
 

ottumwan in tx

HR King
Oct 26, 2002
103,658
16,385
113
Conversely, if someone is having a mental health emergency should we continue to send a couple high school graduates with guns (and expect positive outcomes) or instead a mental health professional along with fewer police officers. Again, defunding the police is poor terminology but it entails diverting resources to appropriate professionals—it’s not like armed police officers won’t be around to respond to high risk calls.
I want to send birx and fauci over there to put masks on their arses
 

ping72

HR Legend
Jan 14, 2009
23,274
23,674
113
Somebody is beating the shit out of their kids and threatening their wife with a knife. You telling me a community activist is what is needed? Care to find one willing to walk into deadly situations without somebody with a gun ?

since police have been told to back off, several major cities starting experiencing unprecedented violence.
nobody I’ve heard has argued for your example.

It’s not eliminating police. There is absolutely a need for armed peace officers. But we ask them to do way too much. Let them deal with the violent criminals....not things like chasing homeless off the streets or looking for expired tags and burned out tail lights. Other people can deal with those types of things.
 

ICWestfan

HR Heisman
May 26, 2005
9,691
3,397
113
..
There is no "no tolerance" without defunding and rebuilding. That's the point.

The police have contracts with unions and defined review processes that make reform literally (using that word correctly) impossible. It's why reformer Chiefs have and always will fail; the system is designed specifically to make reform impossible. Only a new system can lead to reform.

People that oppose defunding may not realize that they are arguing against anti-abuse reform, but that's exactly what they are doing.
Then you let the inmates run the asylum.
 

Saint Louis Attorney

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Apr 26, 2016
5,736
8,521
113
link to list of communist party mayors in the US that control most of the police officers?
They don't control squat. The unions and discipline review processes do, and they are unchangeable, so they need to be replaced with something that serves the needs of taxpayers and the community.

Say you are a reform minded mayor. You are stuck with a review process codified with your agreement with the cops. You install a Chief that wants to end choke holds. The problem is that the discipline review process relies on precedent. The Chief "outlaws" choke holds. Some DB officer keeps choking people. They try to fire him. He appeals to the mandatory review board that rules that he can't be fired because for the prior 40 years other cops were choking people and didn't get fired. It's the same story over and over. There IS NO reform under the current, precedent reliant system. That's the point.

Defunding the police doesn't mean ending law enforcement. Sure, it sounds scary and is an especially effective political message with people that that like to be scared. In reality, It's an end around against a system that BE DEFINTION prevents the reform the status quo lovers pretend to favor. It's a way, the only way, to break the bureaucratic barriers to improvement.
 

ottumwan in tx

HR King
Oct 26, 2002
103,658
16,385
113
They don't control squat. The unions and discipline review processes do, and they are unchangeable, so they need to be replaced with something that serves the needs of taxpayers and the community.

Say you are a reform minded mayor. You are stuck with a review process codified with your agreement with the cops. You install a Chief that wants to end choke holds. The problem is that the discipline review process relies on precedent. The Chief "outlaws" choke holds. Some DB officer keeps choking people. They try to fire him. He appeals to the mandatory review board that rules that he can't be fired because for the prior 40 years other cops were choking people and didn't get fired. It's the same story over and over. There IS NO reform under the current, precedent reliant system. That's the point.

Defunding the police doesn't mean ending law enforcement. Sure, it sounds scary and is an especially effective political message with people that that like to be scared. In reality, It's an end around against a system that BE DEFINTION prevents the reform the status quo lovers pretend to favor. It's a way, the only way, to break the bureaucratic barriers to improvement.
but I am in tx where unions are weak to say the least
 

Saint Louis Attorney

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Apr 26, 2016
5,736
8,521
113
Then you let the inmates run the asylum.
You are hellbent on entitled freaks like those four "inmates" that killed Floyd continue "running the asylum" or, as they like to call it, "serving the community" (at taxpayer expense).

Why support a broken bureaucracy that isn't working? Is the fear of change that overwhelming?
 

ottumwan in tx

HR King
Oct 26, 2002
103,658
16,385
113
In what way?
in every way. get rid
of god, make the feds or government god

from each according to their means, to each according to their needs. population control. it's all right there

control people's health insurance and healthcare decisions, force them to do commie things like all chip in and wear masks and such, it's all there
 

ICWestfan

HR Heisman
May 26, 2005
9,691
3,397
113
You are hellbent on entitled freaks like those four "inmates" that killed Floyd continue "running the asylum" or, as they like to call it, "serving the community" (at taxpayer expense).

Why support a broken bureaucracy that isn't working? Is the fear of change that overwhelming?
Read what you posted and then apply it to policing.
 

ottumwan in tx

HR King
Oct 26, 2002
103,658
16,385
113
all I know is we need to reform the iowa hawkeye football program and burn down the local auto zone because of this vid