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Get the NRA to license bullet sales, and you’ll reduce gun violence

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
79,436
62,545
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Interesting proposal by Jeffrey Zalles of the Brady Campaign. It'll never happen of course:

In August, the New York Times’ Nicholas Kristof noted that gun violence claims one life every 16 minutes in the United States. Think about it. Every day, more than 90 American families are broken by gun violence. If you’re like most people, you have come to feel that achieving any significant reduction in this disturbing statistic is hopeless. Because there are more than 300 million guns in private hands in the United States. Because the gun lobby is just too strong. Because gun-control proponents have fought for years with little to show for it at the federal level.

But this can’t go on forever. We will eventually reach a tipping point whereby a majority of Americans, fed up and fearing for their safety, will finally work their will in the form of strict gun-control measures or even a rewrite or repeal of the Second Amendment.

There is a way to end the standoff before we reach that tipping point, to wipe the slate clean by quickly and drastically reducing gun violence without infringing on gun rights. But first, those who support gun rights must recognize that the biggest threat to those rights lies in the pervasiveness of gun violence, while those on the other side must accept that 300 million guns aren’t going away anytime soon.

The late senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said that in the United States there was a 200-year supply of guns but a four-year supply of ammunition. So what if we stopped worrying about the guns and instead focused on the bullets? Two steps would work wonders:

First, license buyers of ammunition. This license would take the form of a photo ID, and obtaining it could be as easy as watching a video, answering some gun-safety questions, paying a small fee and passing a background check.

No doubt, gun owners would scream that such a requirement represented a big-government intrusion into their privacy and constitutional rights. But what if the National Rifle Association, and not the government, was responsible for issuing licenses? Such a role would simply represent a return to the organization’s roots. The NRA was founded in 1871 to advance marksmanship, promote gun safety and provide training to gun owners. It’s only recently that it became political.

Second, mark the shells. All bullets could be stamped with a serial number, and stores could scan a buyer’s license and a barcode on the box. Since shell casings recovered at a crime scene could easily be traced back to stores and buyers, there would be a powerful incentive to see that bullets were handled responsibly.

How might the country benefit from this system? Almost immediately, it would become increasingly difficult for those who shouldn’t have ammunition to acquire it. After a while, the guns in the possession of criminals would become virtually useless. Of course, this wouldn’t put an end to all gun violence, but my guess is that thousands of lives would be saved every year. A reduction that large could be enough to end once and for all the battle between pro- and anti-gun forces.

A focus on ammunition wouldn’t infringe on the rights of law-abiding gun owners. Instead it would guarantee the protection of those rights — while saving many lives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...552ea6-6b8a-11e5-aa5b-f78a98956699_story.html
 
No......you won't. People will just find another way.

This opinion piece is incredibly short sighted.
Another way, like what? Black market bullets? Have people make their own? I'm getting pretty tired of this "People will find another way" argument.
 
Another way, like what? Black market bullets? Have people make their own? I'm getting pretty tired of this "People will find another way" argument.


You're getting tired of it, because it's the truth. You don't want truth, you want compliance to your way of thinking.

Reloaders. Plain and simple for one. I already save every spent cartridge that I fire. I have friends that reload, and family members that reload. All I have to do is drop a bag of brass by them and reimburse them for the primers, powder, and lead(or whatever tips I want).........and I have a couple hundred more rounds in my safe.
And yes.....it will spur a huge black market industry.

We can't even stop drug dealers......you think you're going to stop this?
 
You're getting tired of it, because it's the truth. You don't want truth, you want compliance to your way of thinking.

Reloaders. Plain and simple for one. I already save every spent cartridge that I fire. I have friends that reload, and family members that reload. All I have to do is drop a bag of brass by them and reimburse them for the primers, powder, and lead(or whatever tips I want).........and I have a couple hundred more rounds in my safe.
And yes.....it will spur a huge black market industry.

We can't even stop drug dealers......you think you're going to stop this?
I'm sorry, but no matter how many times you say that easier access to guns will lead to less violence, it still doesn't make it true. Easier access also means easier access for criminals. Not sure why you can't see this.
 
Further, I'm not sure why people think that making bullets anonymous would decrease violence? All accountability goes out the window then. If a bullet is used in a crime, it should be traceable.
 
You're getting tired of it, because it's the truth. You don't want truth, you want compliance to your way of thinking.

Reloaders. Plain and simple for one. I already save every spent cartridge that I fire. I have friends that reload, and family members that reload. All I have to do is drop a bag of brass by them and reimburse them for the primers, powder, and lead(or whatever tips I want).........and I have a couple hundred more rounds in my safe.
And yes.....it will spur a huge black market industry.

We can't even stop drug dealers......you think you're going to stop this?
I know people who reload. Good for them. But, for mass marketing purposes it doesn't work. It's an individual thing. Bullets are very heavy and bulky. They don't smuggle as easily as drugs do.
 
I know people who reload. Good for them. But, for mass marketing purposes it doesn't work. It's an individual thing. Bullets are very heavy and bulky. They don't smuggle as easily as drugs do.
Plus the whole idea behind making drugs legal is so that we can actually regulate them. But the NRAers want to deregulate guns. It would be like the government making pot legal but not keeping any tabs on it, simply letting people buy weed in any quantity they want, at any age, with zero oversight and zero accountability. It defeats the whole purpose.
 
I'm sorry, but no matter how many times you say that easier access to guns will lead to less violence, it still doesn't make it true. Easier access also means easier access for criminals. Not sure why you can't see this.


First of all....I've never said that it should ever be easier to obtain a gun. I think it should be harder. I've never said that more guns lead to less violence. I have said however that focusing on the root causes of gun violence and targeted actions against the types of people who ARE causing the violence is the better solution than penalizing the 99+% of all gun owners for the actions of approximately 14,000 people.
But that's the hard thing to do.......because it requires effort. The easy way out is to punish everyone for the actions of a few.
 
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Interesting proposal by Jeffrey Zalles of the Brady Campaign. It'll never happen of course:

In August, the New York Times’ Nicholas Kristof noted that gun violence claims one life every 16 minutes in the United States. Think about it. Every day, more than 90 American families are broken by gun violence. If you’re like most people, you have come to feel that achieving any significant reduction in this disturbing statistic is hopeless. Because there are more than 300 million guns in private hands in the United States. Because the gun lobby is just too strong. Because gun-control proponents have fought for years with little to show for it at the federal level.

But this can’t go on forever. We will eventually reach a tipping point whereby a majority of Americans, fed up and fearing for their safety, will finally work their will in the form of strict gun-control measures or even a rewrite or repeal of the Second Amendment.

There is a way to end the standoff before we reach that tipping point, to wipe the slate clean by quickly and drastically reducing gun violence without infringing on gun rights. But first, those who support gun rights must recognize that the biggest threat to those rights lies in the pervasiveness of gun violence, while those on the other side must accept that 300 million guns aren’t going away anytime soon.

The late senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said that in the United States there was a 200-year supply of guns but a four-year supply of ammunition. So what if we stopped worrying about the guns and instead focused on the bullets? Two steps would work wonders:

First, license buyers of ammunition. This license would take the form of a photo ID, and obtaining it could be as easy as watching a video, answering some gun-safety questions, paying a small fee and passing a background check.

No doubt, gun owners would scream that such a requirement represented a big-government intrusion into their privacy and constitutional rights. But what if the National Rifle Association, and not the government, was responsible for issuing licenses? Such a role would simply represent a return to the organization’s roots. The NRA was founded in 1871 to advance marksmanship, promote gun safety and provide training to gun owners. It’s only recently that it became political.

Second, mark the shells. All bullets could be stamped with a serial number, and stores could scan a buyer’s license and a barcode on the box. Since shell casings recovered at a crime scene could easily be traced back to stores and buyers, there would be a powerful incentive to see that bullets were handled responsibly.

How might the country benefit from this system? Almost immediately, it would become increasingly difficult for those who shouldn’t have ammunition to acquire it. After a while, the guns in the possession of criminals would become virtually useless. Of course, this wouldn’t put an end to all gun violence, but my guess is that thousands of lives would be saved every year. A reduction that large could be enough to end once and for all the battle between pro- and anti-gun forces.

A focus on ammunition wouldn’t infringe on the rights of law-abiding gun owners. Instead it would guarantee the protection of those rights — while saving many lives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...552ea6-6b8a-11e5-aa5b-f78a98956699_story.html
If we can marry this and a nationwide rule that to vote you have to have a photo ID I would be all for. That's called compromise.
 
Interesting proposal by Jeffrey Zalles of the Brady Campaign. It'll never happen of course:

In August, the New York Times’ Nicholas Kristof noted that gun violence claims one life every 16 minutes in the United States. Think about it. Every day, more than 90 American families are broken by gun violence. If you’re like most people, you have come to feel that achieving any significant reduction in this disturbing statistic is hopeless. Because there are more than 300 million guns in private hands in the United States. Because the gun lobby is just too strong. Because gun-control proponents have fought for years with little to show for it at the federal level.

But this can’t go on forever. We will eventually reach a tipping point whereby a majority of Americans, fed up and fearing for their safety, will finally work their will in the form of strict gun-control measures or even a rewrite or repeal of the Second Amendment.

There is a way to end the standoff before we reach that tipping point, to wipe the slate clean by quickly and drastically reducing gun violence without infringing on gun rights. But first, those who support gun rights must recognize that the biggest threat to those rights lies in the pervasiveness of gun violence, while those on the other side must accept that 300 million guns aren’t going away anytime soon.

The late senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said that in the United States there was a 200-year supply of guns but a four-year supply of ammunition. So what if we stopped worrying about the guns and instead focused on the bullets? Two steps would work wonders:

First, license buyers of ammunition. This license would take the form of a photo ID, and obtaining it could be as easy as watching a video, answering some gun-safety questions, paying a small fee and passing a background check.

No doubt, gun owners would scream that such a requirement represented a big-government intrusion into their privacy and constitutional rights. But what if the National Rifle Association, and not the government, was responsible for issuing licenses? Such a role would simply represent a return to the organization’s roots. The NRA was founded in 1871 to advance marksmanship, promote gun safety and provide training to gun owners. It’s only recently that it became political.

Second, mark the shells. All bullets could be stamped with a serial number, and stores could scan a buyer’s license and a barcode on the box. Since shell casings recovered at a crime scene could easily be traced back to stores and buyers, there would be a powerful incentive to see that bullets were handled responsibly.

How might the country benefit from this system? Almost immediately, it would become increasingly difficult for those who shouldn’t have ammunition to acquire it. After a while, the guns in the possession of criminals would become virtually useless. Of course, this wouldn’t put an end to all gun violence, but my guess is that thousands of lives would be saved every year. A reduction that large could be enough to end once and for all the battle between pro- and anti-gun forces.

A focus on ammunition wouldn’t infringe on the rights of law-abiding gun owners. Instead it would guarantee the protection of those rights — while saving many lives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...552ea6-6b8a-11e5-aa5b-f78a98956699_story.html

Would accomplish nothing, other than impact probably about 100M law abiding citizens . Easy to bypass, make your own bullets, which lost of people do. There is one tremendous flaw in all the proposals that liberals put forth, you have to be able to trust the government. Trusting the government will never happen.
 
Black markets are out there and always will be - example that bad guys are bad guys:

The FBI helped Moldovan authorities in a series of cases aiming to thwart potential smuggling of radioactive and nuclear material, a U.S. law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said.

The cases, which were several years old, involved sting operations and no one actually from jihadi groups was involved.

Officials were concerned that smugglers would try to sell to extremist groups such as ISIS.

The Moldova/Transnistria region is an area where smugglers are willing to sell almost anything, which is why the FBI and other U.S. agencies are keeping eye on it.
 
Another way, like what? Black market bullets? Have people make their own? I'm getting pretty tired of this "People will find another way" argument.
Well, drugs are illegal. They can't be manufactured here legally. They aren't supposed to be in the hands of the people. They can't be bought in stores. Yet,.....people found a way.
 
You're getting tired of it, because it's the truth. You don't want truth, you want compliance to your way of thinking.

Reloaders. Plain and simple for one. I already save every spent cartridge that I fire. I have friends that reload, and family members that reload. All I have to do is drop a bag of brass by them and reimburse them for the primers, powder, and lead(or whatever tips I want).........and I have a couple hundred more rounds in my safe.
And yes.....it will spur a huge black market industry.

We can't even stop drug dealers......you think you're going to stop this?
Are you talking guns or cameras? Just checking. :)
 
I have a buddy who's father builds his own guns. Reloading ammo is easy.
Yes, it is, and if the need to start doing so came about due to legislation, you can bet your arse that people would learn real quick how to do it.

The problem with CIggy, Huey, and the types that argue against this stuff is one thing. ...They're DNB's.

Because of that, they can't fathom that people CAN do things.
 
You're getting tired of it, because it's the truth. You don't want truth, you want compliance to your way of thinking.

Reloaders. Plain and simple for one. I already save every spent cartridge that I fire. I have friends that reload, and family members that reload. All I have to do is drop a bag of brass by them and reimburse them for the primers, powder, and lead(or whatever tips I want).........and I have a couple hundred more rounds in my safe.
And yes.....it will spur a huge black market industry.

We can't even stop drug dealers......you think you're going to stop this?
DNB SEC, DNB. That is what Huey, ciggy, jscott, and their ilk are all about. DNB.

Like I said in a previous post, their inability to get things taken care of on their own, is the reason as to why they can't comprehend the fact that others can.
 
I like how some people bemoan the war on drugs for it's costs, both in money and in lives, yet they want to create a new black market that is going to do exactly the same thing.
Exactly, and to think that, that wouldn't happen is borderline retarded. Anyone in law enforcement would tell you, that the quickest way to growing a black market, is by making a law against something that people are normally used to having.

Prohibition is a well known failure of illegalization. It was the backbone of the Mobs back in the day. That one deal, created havoc across the entire country. From top to bottom too.
 
First of all....I've never said that it should ever be easier to obtain a gun. I think it should be harder. I've never said that more guns lead to less violence. I have said however that focusing on the root causes of gun violence and targeted actions against the types of people who ARE causing the violence is the better solution than penalizing the 99+% of all gun owners for the actions of approximately 14,000 people.
But that's the hard thing to do.......because it requires effort. The easy way out is to punish everyone for the actions of a few.
Just like LEO - they are being punished for the actions of a few, our government takes the easy road now.
 
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Building explosives is easy - they should ban fertilizer, box trucks and racing fuel.
Not to mention that it could get nasty real quick. Imagine you're in Kinnick, and all of the sudden you see a box fly over your head. You think it's just someone being rowdy, when in fact, BOOM. There goes section 110. If anything having guns around does more good than people actually think. There are always shadow statistics to anything you measure.
 
Huey wants to make it political - well your POTUS had complete control with the House and Senate and didn't do squat. Yet you blame everyone else.
 
I'm sorry, but no matter how many times you say that easier access to guns will lead to less violence, it still doesn't make it true. Easier access also means easier access for criminals. Not sure why you can't see this.

JFC, Criminals already have easy access to guns. Whether you restrict gun access or not, it doesn't change the fact that it's easy for criminals to get guns. You won't even acknowledge places like Chicago who have the some of toughest gun laws in the country.

This is why I'm going to go ahead and deem you unfit to even discuss gun control. If you can't even acknowledge places who have tough gun control laws, then you have zero chance of putting together a convincing argument.
 
I'm sorry, but no matter how many times you say that easier access to guns will lead to less violence, it still doesn't make it true. Easier access also means easier access for criminals. Not sure why you can't see this.

You can't legally buy a gun in Chicago, yet it is one of the most violent cities in the world. Access is allegedly difficult but it doesn't deter anyone from shooting up the windy city.

Please explain. TIA.
 
At least when I started shooting back in the 70's anyone selling ammo had to log it. I don't know if it was a state or federal regulation or even remember when it stopped but any time you bought ammo the clerk pulled out a log book and wrote down the date, your name, address, age, caliber, manufacture, and number of rounds. I might be missing a data point or 2 but I do remember that data being written down.

It didn't matter where you bought it at including Caseys (yes folks, even Caseys sold rifle/shotgun ammo long before they made pizza or donuts) it had to be logged and usually clerks were less than enthused to write all the info down.

Today I asked someone my age if he remembered it and knew any details. He too didn't know whose law it was but did believe the merchants were required to keep these logs for a certain period of time and have available to law enforcement officials in case they were needed to aid an investigation or provide additional evidence.

To be honest....I have no problem with ammo being logged to purchase but I will say this. There is already massive amounts of ammo being held by the public and if someone uses even a little common sense in its storage it can last a long time. In my long term storage locker I have 1 1/2 bandoliers of military surplus 5.56 mm dated 1973. I also have several bricks of .22 LR dating back into 1960's and 70's. All of it is very shootable.
 
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