Gilman wins Bronze at Pan-Ams

[Todd Conner]

https://iowawrestlingblog.com/2018/05/gilman-wins-bronze-at-pan-ams/




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[Husker Hank]

He needs to train in Lincoln, where he can try to develop some offense....I like the kid, but he is so easy to game plan for...

 

[vhsalum]

He needs to train in Lincoln, where he can try to develop some offense....I like the kid, but he is so easy to game plan for...

Offense isn’t his problem... it’s clear you’re not actually paying attention. He added that Iranian underhook throwby single.

I do agree he’s easy to gameplan for though.

 

[Spicolli]

He needs to train in Lincoln, where he can try to develop some offense....I like the kid, but he is so easy to game plan for...

Your right Lambert is an offensive machine....

 

[Husker Hank]

Your right Lambert is an offensive machine....

Ha, no, he'd have to bring some work out partners, too

 

[IAChief32]

Ha, no, he'd have to bring some work out partners, too

Maybe some coaches too?

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

Maybe some coaches too?

Throw in the Iowa football program as well for good measure.

 

[el dub]

Strippers! What?

 

[HawCory]

Strippers! What?

pics or it didn't happen.

 

[pablow]

He needs to train in Lincoln, where he can try to develop some offense....I like the kid, but he is so easy to game plan for...

stupid nebraska

 

[bman546]

Or, imagine how much better Burroughs and Green would actually be if they trained in Iowa City and got away from that d-bag Manning.

 

[MonteHawkeyeSS]

Snyder probably deserves more credit than Manning.

 

[lookleft goright]

Or, imagine how much better Burroughs and Green would actually be if they trained in Iowa City and got away from that d-bag Manning.

How much better can JB actually get? Green has done pretty well for himself also. It seems like what they are doing is working for them.

 

[pablow]

How much better can JB actually get? Green has done pretty well for himself also. It seems like what they are doing is working for them.

Green, JB, Joe Williams, Brandon Slay and company were blessed with the blast double gene. If you don't have it, you don't have it. Can't be coached. So that, IMO, is some context for judging any coaching awards. Manning has done a nice job, but hey, JB and Green can make a coach look mighty good.

 

[SansSouci]

Green, JB, Joe Williams, Brandon Slay and company were blessed with the blast double gene. If you don't have it, you don't have it. Can't be coached. So that, IMO, is some context for judging any coaching awards. Manning has done a nice job, but hey, JB and Green can make a coach look mighty good.

That’s us why I have never been a JB fanboy like so many. He has a great blast double. Is he going to go on and be a great freestyle coach of technique? Uh, no.

 

[Exo]

That’s us why I have never been a JB fanboy like so many. He has a great blast double. Is he going to go on and be a great freestyle coach of technique? Uh, no.

He has a lace too.

 

[Knight563]

Bottom line is he needed to win gold at this tournament - it was there for the taking.

 

[Aardvark86]

https://iowawrestlingblog.com/2018/05/gilman-wins-bronze-at-pan-ams/
What has been impressive to me is how quickly Gilman has been able to compete at the top echelon following graduation. .



I am now up on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/IowaWrestlingFan/
and on Twiiter at https://twitter.com/iawrestlingfan

 

[vhsalum]

That’s us why I have never been a JB fanboy like so many. He has a great blast double. Is he going to go on and be a great freestyle coach of technique? Uh, no.

Wow. I love it when it people are wrong. You might want to pay more attention to Burroughs. He only has a blast double? Nope.

He has a swing single to both sides. He has a low single to both sides. He has the best front headlock in the game, and it isn't even close. And his most important asset? He's like a coach out there with his out-of-bounds-line tactics. He uses the line better than everyone in the world, and he's had that since 2011.

While he is athletic gifted to the hilt, his positioning, his technique and more importantly, his evolution as a wrestler show you that he is much than just an athlete. He will be a great coach when he's ready. He was never Joe Williams. Joe got by on and won at a really high level base solely on athleticism. And had done so since the beginning. Burroughs was losing a ton all the way through his freshman season in college. He earned his wins without the benefit of being a life-long front runner.

Just watch the highlights from last year's world championships:

 

[IAChief32]

That’s us why I have never been a JB fanboy like so many. He has a great blast double. Is he going to go on and be a great freestyle coach of technique? Uh, no.

Jordan started out with a great blast double but evolved from there. He is good in par terre with a lace.He is exceedingly difficult to score on and like VHS said, his set ups and positioning are some of the best in the world. It was evident in the Olympics that he had lost a step so he went back to the drawing board and came back to win a world title.

Gable gave Jordan a great double but he worked to get everything else. Given Jordan's personality (magnetic), work ethic etc...whomever he decides to coach will be lucky.

 

[lookleft goright]

That’s us why I have never been a JB fanboy like so many. He has a great blast double. Is he going to go on and be a great freestyle coach of technique? Uh, no.

Maybe your sons can give him a few pointers.

 

[pablow]

Wow. I love it when it people are wrong. You might want to pay more attention to Burroughs. He only has a blast double? Nope.

He has a swing single to both sides. He has a low single to both sides. He has the best front headlock in the game, and it isn't even close. And his most important asset? He's like a coach out there with his out-of-bounds-line tactics. He uses the line better than everyone in the world, and he's had that since 2011.

While he is athletic gifted to the hilt, his positioning, his technique and more importantly, his evolution as a wrestler show you that he is much than just an athlete. He will be a great coach when he's ready. He was never Joe Williams. Joe got by on and won at a really high level base solely on athleticism. And had done so since the beginning. Burroughs was losing a ton all the way through his freshman season in college. He earned his wins without the benefit of being a life-long front runner.

Just watch the highlights from last year's world championships:

View embedded media

I think there's room for more than one opinion on Burroughs. He has certainly added additional weapons over the years - that can't be denied. But a few years ago a Nebraska assistant coach made this comment to me - "you can't teach what he does." I took that to mean that a certain level of athleticism is required to wrestle like Burroughs.

 

[crablegs1]

Bottom line is he needed to win gold at this tournament - it was there for the taking.

Why did he need to? Seems about as important as the Loras Open tournament.

 

[edquinn06]

Why did he need to? Seems about as important as the Loras Open tournament.

Points for rankings and seeds at worlds?

 

[crablegs1]

Points for rankings and seeds at worlds?

Meaningless. The defending world champion, and current top dog at the weight, is unseeded. If being seeded doesn’t get you away from him, then what’s the point.

Snyder and Burroughs are also unseeded currently.

 

[1stplacehawk]

Meaningless. The defending world champion, and current top dog at the weight, is unseeded. If being seeded doesn’t get you away from him, then what’s the point.

Snyder and Burroughs are also unseeded currently.

Agreed. I'm not saying I don't wish he would have won, but none of these losses have been a surprise. He could medal at worlds again or he could never make a team again. Good wrestler that was never a Snyder, Burroughs...etc. Most guys will take some losses against the best in the world.

 

[vhsalum]

I think there's room for more than one opinion on Burroughs. He has certainly added additional weapons over the years - that can't be denied. But a few years ago a Nebraska assistant coach made this comment to me - "you can't teach what he does." I took that to mean that a certain level of athleticism is required to wrestle like Burroughs.

To a certain degree. Absolutely. But we've all seen uber-athletes like Burroughs. He's probably the first super athlete to combine all the "can't teach" mental attributes typically associated with lesser talented athletes. He's tough (broken ankle Worlds), is always in shape (see last year's Dake series), has a will to win (see match with David Taylor), has great tactics (Worlds 2018), has great technique, never sits on a lead, can handle his emotions (see Tsargush match).

So yes. Does Burroughs possess some other-worldly athleticism? Agreed. But he also earned it. He wasn't that good as a little kid, as a high schooler, and not until his junior year of college. If you get the chance, talk to Manning. Burroughs was on his way out as a freshman. Manning had to sit him down and ask him if he wanted to be a wrestler and told him to change his work ethic. There aren't that many people, let alone athletes than change their mindset the way Burroughs did.

 

[pablow]

To a certain degree. Absolutely. But we've all seen uber-athletes like Burroughs. He's probably the first super athlete to combine all the "can't teach" mental attributes typically associated with lesser talented athletes. He's tough (broken ankle Worlds), is always in shape (see last year's Dake series), has a will to win (see match with David Taylor), has great tactics (Worlds 2018), has great technique, never sits on a lead, can handle his emotions (see Tsargush match).

So yes. Does Burroughs possess some other-worldly athleticism? Agreed. But he also earned it. He wasn't that good as a little kid, as a high schooler, and not until his junior year of college. If you get the chance, talk to Manning. Burroughs was on his way out as a freshman. Manning had to sit him down and ask him if he wanted to be a wrestler and told him to change his work ethic. There aren't that many people, let alone athletes than change their mindset the way Burroughs did.

I don't think there is any great disagreement here. Burroughs has a solid compliment of skills to go with his double. And he worked at developing them. He earned it.

And, to be blunt, many people believe black wrestlers are super-athletes and so deny them their due as skilled wrestlers. IMO Burrough is not as athletic as Dake or Snyder, so I'm giving him a lot of credit as a wrestler. But - can't deny that double.

 

[Gusaford]

To a certain degree. Absolutely. But we've all seen uber-athletes like Burroughs. He's probably the first super athlete to combine all the "can't teach" mental attributes typically associated with lesser talented athletes. He's tough (broken ankle Worlds), is always in shape (see last year's Dake series), has a will to win (see match with David Taylor), has great tactics (Worlds 2018), has great technique, never sits on a lead, can handle his emotions (see Tsargush match).

So yes. Does Burroughs possess some other-worldly athleticism? Agreed. But he also earned it. He wasn't that good as a little kid, as a high schooler, and not until his junior year of college. If you get the chance, talk to Manning. Burroughs was on his way out as a freshman. Manning had to sit him down and ask him if he wanted to be a wrestler and told him to change his work ethic. There aren't that many people, let alone athletes than change their mindset the way Burroughs did.

Metcalf beat Burroughs three times their sophomore year . . . not that there's anything embarrassing in losing to Metcalf. But Burroughs surely has come a long way.

 

[IAChief32]

And, to be blunt, many people believe black wrestlers are super-athletes and so deny them their due as skilled wrestlers. IMO Burrough is not as athletic as Dake or Snyder, so I'm giving him a lot of credit as a wrestler. But - can't deny that double.

This right here...also don’t give credit for the work ethic. Saw an interview with Magic and Larry Bird and this topic was brought up. Larry was the gym rat who put thousands of hours honing his skill as a boy and Magic came out of the womb dribbling a basketball. Both of them laughed about the generalizations because of skin color.

 

[vhsalum]

I don't think there is any great disagreement here. Burroughs has a solid compliment of skills to go with his double. And he worked at developing them. He earned it.

And, to be blunt, many people believe black wrestlers are super-athletes and so deny them their due as skilled wrestlers. IMO Burrough is not as athletic as Dake or Snyder, so I'm giving him a lot of credit as a wrestler. But - can't deny that double.

Yeah. so... I didn't want to be the one to say that so thanks. It's true. It just annoys me when people make these generalizations about Burroughs. He really is a master technician. And as a coach, I could never understand how our FS guys are/were so terrible with the out of bounds line. We cried about it instead of using it as a weapon. He was the first to do so. There are just so many little nuances to the way he wrestles that you can tell it's about the how work he puts in. Does he have a blast double that none of us can replicate? Sure. But he didn't have that prior to 2010. Like Gusaford said, he lost to Metcalf his sophomore year. And they weren't close matches.

I guess I'm on a soapbox, but SanSouci pissed me off with that hot take.

 

[vhsalum]

Let's bring it back to Gilman...

He's snapping guys right into his feet. I hope that gets fixed.

 

[Jackhawk87]

Jordan started out with a great blast double but evolved from there. He is good in par terre with a lace.He is exceedingly difficult to score on and like VHS said, his set ups and positioning are some of the best in the world. It was evident in the Olympics that he had lost a step so he went back to the drawing board and came back to win a world title.

Gable gave Jordan a great double but he worked to get everything else. Given Jordan's personality (magnetic), work ethic etc...whomever he decides to coach will be lucky.

I see what you did there with the Gable thing. Since nobody has given you props on it yet, well done.

 

[Husker Hank]

Maybe some coaches too?

My comment was mostly tongue in cheek but coaching was what precipitated the comment. Kid needs some offense, and offense out of defense in a big way, and also needs to be coached to realize the game plan has become to score off his shots.

 

[Husker Hank]

Or, imagine how much better Burroughs and Green would actually be if they trained in Iowa City and got away from that d-bag Manning.

I muse at the thought, every time I see a Hawk fan take a shot at Manning, while giving a pass to the psycho twins. Remember Terry was in Lincoln, for a time, and well, he makes some head scratcher choices too. Outside looking in now to the Iowa program, there is no reason for a Hawk to play that card about other coaches. Dont get me wrong, I like them both, but also am able to see some questionable antics. I just think Mark is a hell of a coach and person. Is it that hard to see that some of the good results coming out of Lincoln must fall back to the HC?

 

[lookleft goright]

I muse at the thought, every time I see a Hawk fan take a shot at Manning, while giving a pass to the psycho twins. Remember Terry was in Lincoln, for a time, and well, he makes some head scratcher choices too. Outside looking in now to the Iowa program, there is no reason for a Hawk to play that card about other coaches. Dont get me wrong, I like them both, but also am able to see some questionable antics. I just think Mark is a hell of a coach and person. Is it that hard to see that some of the good results coming out of Lincoln must fall back to the HC?

Manning has to be doing something right to keep JB and Green in Lincoln. I agree, it is best to give credit where credit is due.

 

[IAChief32]

My comment was mostly tongue in cheek but coaching was what precipitated the comment. Kid needs some offense, and offense out of defense in a big way, and also needs to be coached to realize the game plan has become to score off his shots.

"Kid" won a silver world coming out of college and beat all the best guys at his weight right there in Lincoln. I don't think offense or coaching is his problem.