Going to a knee(or both) in Neutral. Stalling or Not?

[MSU158]

I am having a pretty strong back and forth with some MIZZ fans regarding Waters going to his knees in neutral.

Since Iowa fans are well known for their "stalling" chants

, I am interested to see where most of you stand on this topic.

Is it stalling?

 

[Shafthawk]

I guess unless you lock up with them on your knees also(DiJulius/Clark), how exactly do you score against that stance?

I personally don't like it, ref should make them go to their feet, if the one wrestler is purposefully staying in that stance.

This post was edited on 3/18 11:32 AM by Shafthawk

 

[Spoons]

YES!!

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

When they go to their knees they are counting on their opponent to initiate the action. If Waters does this Gilman should just stand in the center and wait for him to stand up.

 

[1stplacehawk]

If it's for more than a second or two it's stalling

 

[clhawks00]

If the wrestler goes to his knees and stays there then it is stalling.

 

[MSU158]

There are several people vehemently defending it. To me the whole intent of going to a knee is to slow down the match and stop your opponent from attacking. Even if you are inevitably able to work offense from this position it requires your opponent to engage you in that position.

If it isn't stalling it just shouldn't be allowed. It is ugly, boring and quite frankly embarrassing. It's almost as bad as the guy in MMA just falling to his back and staying there, halfheartedly kicking and hoping for a submission situation to develop. Are you really that worried about how you match up with your opponent on your feet?

 

[HawkTitan]

Originally posted by WEH8ST8HAWK:
When they go to their knees they are counting on their opponent to initiate the action. If Waters does this Gilman should just stand in the center and wait for him to stand up.

This is the same strategy I've said wrestlers should take against Delgado and the others who back up right off the whistle. Just stand in the center and make him come to you. And if he doesn't, the official will have to choose to call stalling on one or both of you. It's kind of a way of making a mockery of the sport but, unfortunately, I think that's what it's going to take to get anything done.

And yes, going to a knee and staying there is stalling, IMO.

 

[HAWKMANN]

Going to one knee isn't that bad because you can still work from there and create openings but I think you need to stay moving if you are going to be on a knee. Simply dropping to a knee and waiting for your opponent to react is stalling. Going to both knees is stalling 99% of the time (I think I have only seen Jordan Burroughs score off both knees repeatedly).

What really irks me is when one guy drops to both knees and then the other wrestler immediately follows suit. That should be an automatic double stall call.

 

[T8KUDWN]

It's stalling and in my opinion that style of wrestling is bad for the sport. On 1 or 2 knees the wrestler is rarely going forward or creating an angle to score. It normally slows down the match and creates boring wrestling which we don't need anymore of!!

 

[pablow]

Didn't John Smith frequently wrestle from one knee? Dake too?

 

[MSU158]

I really don't remember Dake doing it. If he did so, it was very rare.

Smith, did it from time to time but he was so fast, he used it as a setup and wasn't on his knees for very long.

 

[Lsanders20]

Stiebers used to do it all the time. Either one knee or both.Hopefully folks understand that going to both knees out of a tie can be a method to set up a front head lock or some other things On the mat but what you are referring to is nothing new and wrestlers have been doing it since the beginning of time. It is just a way to kill time and it would not hurt my feelings if a warning was issued.

 

[LutherAce]

Anthony Robles was notorious for this tactic.

Damn him!

 

[XiXiTiger]

MSU wrote on The Mat that wrestling from knees is stalling because "in NO way does going to knee allow you to initiate offense" and it's "purely defensive". I and others mentioned that Waters does score frequently from there, and I linked two video instances of Waters taking down top 10 wrestlers from his knees. MSU's argument seemed to shift to how ugly and boring it is, and that Waters "only scores when his opponent comes to him" and "opponents get frustrated and walk into something".

Considering Waters has at least one takedown against just about everyone he's wrestled this year(not named Gilman or Garrett), there must be a bunch of suckers that fall for his "I'm on my knees, come and get me" traps. And for all the flack Waters gets for it, he's usually on his knees only a small fraction of his time in neutral. He beat Joey Dance at All-Star and I'm not sure he wrestled from his knees more than 5 seconds in the whole match. When he does drop to his knee(s), he advances and initiates contact and quickly shifts back and forth from one knee, to two knees, to standing.

To each his own, but you haven't watched many of Waters' matches if you think he drops to his knees to stall. IMO, it's a good defendable position for him that he uses to set up attacks.

 

[Chopper25]

It is stalling IMO. I know in freestyle the refs will generally tell the guy on his knees to come up. Most of the time it's instantly. I'm not sure what the exact rule is, but if they see it as a way to slow the action (or stall) at the international level why dont they look at it as stalling at the college level?

 

[Herkuleez5]

Stalling all the way. The call it the neutral position for a reason, BOTH UP, not one down on a knee or knees. Unless you are forced down to a knee or it is caused by reaction to offense from your opponent then it's BS in my opinion. I would like to see someone take a quick step toward one of these guys, lower their hips and put their face square in their chest knocking them on their ass all in one motion. Would it work? One way to find out and that is by letting the fur fly!

Of course backing to the center of the mat and making them get up will make them look bad in my eyes but then again someone would then say the Iowa guy is stalling because he is avoiding the other guy.

IT

 

[T8KUDWN]

I personally don't give a rats ass how Waters or any Mizzery wrestlers score points. 99.9% of the time going to one or both knees is a defensive strategy to slow the match down.... plain and simple, stalling!