Golden State Warriors... Iowa trying to emulate GSW strategy?

[TheHawkeyeDudeAbides]

Love watching the pace and shooting of the GSW. Some of the assist passes are really tight ropes. GSW plays small ball better than most NBA teams and the spacing is critical. Anytime GSW has the ball 3 very good 3 point shooter are on the floor and they can hit their shots. Curry at 6'3" does always have to bring the ball up to start the offense and GSW usually has 3 players with Curry that are from 6'6" to 6'8" on the floor at the same time and really do not care about who is the center. GSW does have a bit of a B1G flavor to its roster with Draymond Green (Saginaw, MI) , Shaun Livingston (P-Town (Peoria), IL), and Andre Igloudala (Springfield (Lanphier HS/ Kevin Gamble-mentor), IL).

The usage of a bigger guard unit should help Iowa shoot over its opponents and create several mismatches as guards post up small guys near the hoop. This is one reason I am not sold on guys like Brady Ellingson who cannot move well enough to create their own shots and have limited skill sets outside of the long ball shot. Likewise that is also why I am favoring recruits like a Jordan Goodwin who can create own shot, post up opponents and score or make the timely assist to a cutting teammate. JG had another good tournament outing playing thru a shoulder injury. As much as I'd love to see Iowa land Malik Williams , Jordan with Moss and Williams would Iowa's guard court very tough to defeat. Article link below.
http://www.scout.com/college/illinois/story/1673651-jordan-goodwin-suffers-shoulder-injury

Having bigger SGs, SFs and PFs that can hit the 3 as well space out the defense makes for longer rebound kickouts. Mobility and quickness become more valuable than overall height. Anyone else think Fran is fan of the GSW offense? Go Hawks!

 

[DanL53]

Fran has put his pieces together and Iowa will play much like his Sienna teams played. Meanwhile, Steve Kerr has been the coach at Golden State since 2014. It is his first coaching gig. I don't know who Kerr would list as his mentors regarding coaching but one would likely be his college coach, Lute Olson.

If you're looking for someone that mentored McCaffery, I'd have to guess a big one was Digger Phelps. But Fran had already been a head coach (youngest in the country) when he went to work for Phelps at Notre Dame. And I'd have to say that Fran's town of Philadelphia has quite a history of basketball. Rollie Massimino had an effect on McCaffery growing up. Here's an article by Don Doxie, worth a read:

http://qctimes.com/sports/basketbal...cle_e2047629-58b6-5889-a8d8-fe37585b2616.html

As to positionless basketball, or broadly and inaccurately just small ball, I would guess it came to McCaffery and Kerr in different ways. And neither is going to go all in on a formula if a talented player comes along that causes some adjustments to the overall scheme.

As to Goodwin, I'm sure we'd love to have him but Williams, Moss, Bohannon, Ellingson, Dailey and coming in C. McCaffery followed by Wieskamp before any of those other guys are gone?

Just my opinion, I'd sooner have another forward type that can defend bigs and rebound, and post up. But at some point one has to say does a 6'3" Goodwin playing a wing bring more to the team than just taking a random big? Oh heck yes. That's the whole point to positionless basketball, you put the best guys on the court and move them around to fit the situation. My wish list in this order:

Malik Williams
Luka Garza
Jack Nunge
Jordan Goodwin

I left off the highly unlikely 5 stars and stopped after my top four. Is Goodwin better overall than a couple of these guys? No doubt. But what those other guys give us is more versatility to move Cook around, draw out bigs with shooting, or in a couple cases some back to the basket old school game.

If we get any of those four, we've scored. But to put the best five guys on the court? The top three fill the biggest need.

Finally, what good coaches do....they don't have to invent a dang thing. They just have to be good at "borrowing" what works for others. Tracing the evolution of things like positionless basketball is practically impossible. Too much, "I got it from, who got it from, who got it from"...mixed in with, "I tweaked it like this, I added this little change..."

 

[hooper56]

Fran has put his pieces together and Iowa will play much like his Sienna teams played. Meanwhile, Steve Kerr has been the coach at Golden State since 2014. It is his first coaching gig. I don't know who Kerr would list as his mentors regarding coaching but one would likely be his college coach, Lute Olson.

If you're looking for someone that mentored McCaffery, I'd have to guess a big one was Digger Phelps. But Fran had already been a head coach (youngest in the country) when he went to work for Phelps at Notre Dame. And I'd have to say that Fran's town of Philadelphia has quite a history of basketball. Rollie Massimino had an effect on McCaffery growing up. Here's an article by Don Doxie, worth a read:

http://qctimes.com/sports/basketbal...cle_e2047629-58b6-5889-a8d8-fe37585b2616.html

As to positionless basketball, or broadly and inaccurately just small ball, I would guess it came to McCaffery and Kerr in different ways. And neither is going to go all in on a formula if a talented player comes along that causes some adjustments to the overall scheme.

As to Goodwin, I'm sure we'd love to have him but Williams, Moss, Bohannon, Ellingson, Dailey and coming in C. McCaffery followed by Wieskamp before any of those other guys are gone?

Just my opinion, I'd sooner have another forward type that can defend bigs and rebound, and post up. But at some point one has to say does a 6'3" Goodwin playing a wing bring more to the team than just taking a random big? Oh heck yes. That's the whole point to positionless basketball, you put the best guys on the court and move them around to fit the situation. My wish list in this order:

Malik Williams
Luka Garza
Jack Nunge
Jordan Goodwin

I left off the highly unlikely 5 stars and stopped after my top four. Is Goodwin better overall than a couple of these guys? No doubt. But what those other guys give us is more versatility to move Cook around, draw out bigs with shooting, or in a couple cases some back to the basket old school game.

If we get any of those four, we've scored. But to put the best five guys on the court? The top three fill the biggest need.

Finally, what good coaches do....they don't have to invent a dang thing. They just have to be good at "borrowing" what works for others. Tracing the evolution of things like positionless basketball is practically impossible. Too much, "I got it from, who got it from, who got it from"...mixed in with, "I tweaked it like this, I added this little change..."

Actually Fran would tell you that although he did borrow from Digger Phelps he was more influenced by John MacLeod. He had a lot of respect for John and his systems and tries to emulate him in many ways.

 

[MadToxicologist]

Here I thought Golden State was trying to emulate Iowa!

 

[DanL53]

Actually Fran would tell you that although he did borrow from Digger Phelps he was more influenced by John MacLeod. He had a lot of respect for John and his systems and tries to emulate him in many ways.

I left Macleod off but you are right to say that there's another guy who Fran has borrowed from.

 

[hooper56]

I actually asked Fran once who was his biggest influence and he replied that he learned the most from John MacLeod.

 

[DanL53]

I actually asked Fran once who was his biggest influence and he replied that he learned the most from John MacLeod.

Ok, good! Thanks! I was just trying to point out in my reply that it probably wasn't a coach who got his first gig in 2014! But you are a world of good info and if it this was meant to be a contest over who influenced Fran the most I'd forfeit.

 

[Auger]

This coming season Fran will have pretty much the roster he has been trying to get to run his style of play in the B1G. I am very curious to see the type of success Fran has this next season. I love this lineup even if they don't produce the wins from last season.

 

[ConiferHawk]

This coming season Fran will have pretty much the roster he has been trying to get to run his style of play in the B1G. I am very curious to see the type of success Fran has this next season. I love this lineup even if they don't produce the wins from last season.

I would mostly agree with this except for not getting the quick, jitterbug scoring point guard that he's been trying to land.

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

I'd move Garza behind both Nunge and Goodwin, but I'd put Michael Porter on top. I can dream can't I. Lol

 

[CyCity]

I'd move Garza behind both Nunge and Goodwin, but I'd put Michael Porter on top. I can dream can't I. Lol

Porter already cut Iowa off his list

 

[SSG T]

Porter already cut Iowa off his list

Yep, but Williams still has them there. He'd be my dream big man (well, at least of the bigs considering Iowa currently) though I think I'd still prefer Goodwin over any of them.

 

[CyCity]

Yep, but Williams still has them there. He'd be my dream big man (well, at least of the bigs considering Iowa currently) though I think I'd still prefer Goodwin over any of them.

Williams and Goodwin are both really good. I bet Williams ends up at Michigan State but not sure on Goodwin

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

Oh well , Williams then, fine

 

[TheHawkeyeDudeAbides]

I'd move Garza behind both Nunge and Goodwin, but I'd put Michael Porter on top. I can dream can't I. Lol

Sure you can ......rainbow warrior. This video's dedicated to you (rainbow dreamer).

 

[SSG T]

Sure you can ......rainbow warrior. This video's dedicated to you (rainbow dreamer).

View embedded media

I'm good friends with his cousin.

 

[jdv77]

What is fascinating to me is that I don't think that we necessarily know what Coach McCaffery's preferred style is.

I would disagree with the assertion that this coming team will play a lot like McCaffery's Siena teams. Those teams did not necessarily shoot a lot of 3s. McCaffery's final team at Sienna was 160-498 from 3, in 34 games. That is 4.7 makes and 14.6 attempts per game from 3. Last year, Iowa was 269-719 from 3, in 33 games. That is 8.2 makes and 21.8 attempts per game from 3.

So last year's Iowa team was certainly unlike his last team at Sienna. But it was a fair bit like the previous two Iowa teams, when Aaron White and Gabe Olaseni were juniors and seniors.

McCaffery's 3rd team at Sienna went 239-626 from 3 in 34 games. So that team would resemble more of what Iowa was this past year.

But the point is that his style is malleable. It gets reshaped to fit the roster of players that he has. When he had a great point guard (his final year at Sienna, the point guard averaged 7.7 assists and led the nation) the offense runs through the point. When he doesn't, the offense is more multiple.

I think that he would run GSW's offense if he had GSW's roster. When he has shooters, he lets them shoot. But I don't think we know his preferred style.

 

[unIowa]

He likes long, lean players. If he has 3 point shooters he wants them to shoot 3s (see Jok and Uthoff), if he doesn't he wants them to get to the line (see Dev and Whitey).

Outside of Jok (and potentially JB) i think we will see more effort to get to the line.

 

[TheHawkeyeDudeAbides]

unIowa ....Getting to the line takes a real potent dribble driver who can finish at a high rate as well as having the outside perimeter shooters who can draw the defenses out. Baer should be a viable perimeter shooter that can spark Iowa from off the bench next year. Jones was a good 6'7" in/ out shooter that was finding his way before the recurring injury. Uhl needs to go to the basket with authority and a dunking attitude. Not buying into JB yet as he has to prove he can play B1G ball. Christian Williams was a SG in HS. I think he and Moss will show a new life in Iowa BB next year. A lot of unknown qualities on this roster and couple of afterthoughts.

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

Thanks HawkeyeDudeAbides, I enjoyed the video, nearly as much as if Michael Porter came to play for the Hawkeyes.

 

[hooper56]

What is fascinating to me is that I don't think that we necessarily know what Coach McCaffery's preferred style is.

I would disagree with the assertion that this coming team will play a lot like McCaffery's Siena teams. Those teams did not necessarily shoot a lot of 3s. McCaffery's final team at Sienna was 160-498 from 3, in 34 games. That is 4.7 makes and 14.6 attempts per game from 3. Last year, Iowa was 269-719 from 3, in 33 games. That is 8.2 makes and 21.8 attempts per game from 3.

So last year's Iowa team was certainly unlike his last team at Sienna. But it was a fair bit like the previous two Iowa teams, when Aaron White and Gabe Olaseni were juniors and seniors.

McCaffery's 3rd team at Sienna went 239-626 from 3 in 34 games. So that team would resemble more of what Iowa was this past year.

But the point is that his style is malleable. It gets reshaped to fit the roster of players that he has. When he had a great point guard (his final year at Sienna, the point guard averaged 7.7 assists and led the nation) the offense runs through the point. When he doesn't, the offense is more multiple.

I think that he would run GSW's offense if he had GSW's roster. When he has shooters, he lets them shoot. But I don't think we know his preferred style.

This is a good point and history does suggest that Fran definitely changes or tweaks his style based on personnel. Some coaches play the same no matter what but Fran really does alter what he does based on his player's best skills. I like that about him.

 

[DodgerHawki]

What is fascinating to me is that I don't think that we necessarily know what Coach McCaffery's preferred style is.

I would disagree with the assertion that this coming team will play a lot like McCaffery's Siena teams. Those teams did not necessarily shoot a lot of 3s. McCaffery's final team at Sienna was 160-498 from 3, in 34 games. That is 4.7 makes and 14.6 attempts per game from 3. Last year, Iowa was 269-719 from 3, in 33 games. That is 8.2 makes and 21.8 attempts per game from 3.

So last year's Iowa team was certainly unlike his last team at Sienna. But it was a fair bit like the previous two Iowa teams, when Aaron White and Gabe Olaseni were juniors and seniors.

McCaffery's 3rd team at Sienna went 239-626 from 3 in 34 games. So that team would resemble more of what Iowa was this past year.

But the point is that his style is malleable. It gets reshaped to fit the roster of players that he has. When he had a great point guard (his final year at Sienna, the point guard averaged 7.7 assists and led the nation) the offense runs through the point. When he doesn't, the offense is more multiple.

I think that he would run GSW's offense if he had GSW's roster. When he has shooters, he lets them shoot. But I don't think we know his preferred style.

This is correct. Fran's good teams at Siena featured multiple smaller, quick guards who could get to the rim and cause problems for the opponent on defense. To date, Fran hasn't been able to get that type of player at Iowa. It's not for lack of trying (Ulis, Trey Dickerson, Moore, etc.). Either the small quick guard hasn't chosen Iowa, or turned out to be not very good (Dickerson).

Like any coach, Fran wants players who are as athletic and versatile as possible. He's taken lowly recruited guys who were tall/skilled, in the hopes that they could blossom. White, Olaseni and to some extent Uthoff fit that mold (as well as Baer).

I'm excited to see Cook get on campus and start playing. He's the type of player Iowa usually ends up playing against for Michigan State, Indiana, OSU, etc. Of course, I'd like to have 2-3 more players like Cook to match what Sparty usually has in the frontline.

My point is that I don't think Fran has any one "type" of player or team. He wants good, athletic, versatile, smart players, just like any coach. He has shown an ability to identify guys early and to identify lower-recruited guys with a unique skill set that end up being very good. White and Olaseni being Exhibits A and B, guys like Uhl and Baer hopefully being C and D. But if Fran wants to end up winning a conference title or making a deep NCAA run, the chances go up a lot if he can win more of the recruiting battles for players that other top-level programs want. Cook was a great get. Wieskamp looks like another. Can he strike gold again in 2017 or 18?

 

[unIowa]

unIowa ....Getting to the line takes a real potent dribble driver who can finish at a high rate as well as having the outside perimeter shooters who can draw the defenses out. Baer should be a viable perimeter shooter that can spark Iowa from off the bench next year. Jones was a good 6'7" in/ out shooter that was finding his way before the recurring injury. Uhl needs to go to the basket with authority and a dunking attitude. Not buying into JB yet as he has to prove he can play B1G ball. Christian Williams was a SG in HS. I think he and Moss will show a new life in Iowa BB next year. A lot of unknown qualities on this roster and couple of afterthoughts.

I think we have those in Williams, Moss and to a lesser extent I think Wagner is good off a pick and roll with one bounce going to the hoop. As for the shooters Pete can light it up and, I hope, JoBo can play enough defense so he can get a chance to get minutes as a shooter.

 

[DanL53]

I'm kind of surprised we've forgotten "Play fast but not stupid". Or how excited we were at the game style he was bringing after our last guy put us to sleep.

Of course Fran has a system. But yes, like all good coaches he tweaks it to fit his talent. He is the first coach we've had since Lute Olson that does this.

Fran's emphasis on the three quarter press, half court trapping, and using a zone and man to man hasn't changed since he got here. But there have been years we've seen little man to man.

We run the court. But the year Marble was a senior we ran every time. Makes, misses, we ran just to see what would happen. And you know we like to, but some years like last season we've done it less because unlike 2013/14 we weren't capable of playing ten, sometimes eleven, guys in a game.

Half-court offense? We run a motion and we certainly tweak it to fit our players. But it is the same motion, just with emphasis on things. White with the backdoor dunk? Lot's of guys can dunk a lob, but we emphasized it with Aaron.

We know what Iowa will run, minus a few things. We've not had a center that can play back to the basket. I'll be interested the day we get one to see how we use him. We certainly have not had guys 6'5", 6'6" 6"6 3/4ths" like Jok, Moss and Williams. Who COULD be passing the ball around the perimeter and wow talk about line of sight!

And yeah, Fran has recruited smaller point guards and if one pays attention he still recruits seven footers to. He's not going to ignore talent, he's going to plug it in. And I doubt he ever intended to have so much length at the guard spots. But he's going to find a way to use it.

System: Three Quarter Court Press, Half Court Trap, Zone and Man to Man as needed, Fast but not stupid, Motion. Oh, and as McCaffery recently said, he's not going to have only one guy handling the ball so that the team has to stop and all go to their assigned starting points over and over.

Tweaks: This year we focus on our scorer Devyn Marble, Next year it'll be White and Uthoff, then Uthoff and Jok....because we can emphasize who takes shots. This year we're going to take a lot of threes because one, we're a young team and there is less to screw up. And two, we've got the guys that can make them. Again, those are tweaks. This we don't know year to year. But I'd suggest forgetting about not having a "traditional" point guard. We don't have one. It is like trying to eat ice cream out of an empty bowl and frankly the longer one keeps doing it the more they appear to be insane. Start thinking about what a point guard with a 7' wingspan can do for a team...and what having guys like Moss, Bohannon around can do to help with keeping the offense flowing. Maybe even Jok but right now it's talk, we'll see.

But again, tweaks? Tell ya'll what Who wants to bet me we don't see the flat four with a guard isolated up top just we tried over and over again with Gesell? Same play Maryland runs for Melo and last year it was a big reason he had a bad season.

Anyway, who wants to bet we don't see that play? So then the next thing is just like Skinner and Woolridge BOTH were used by Davis to run the same last ten second play, and one stunk and the other was brilliant, we gotta ask ourselves is Williams going to be brilliant at it?

Conclusion, of course there is plenty we know, and always a little we don't.