Good Article: Why Millennials are Drawn to Socialism

[What Would Jesus Do?]

For eight years, as the economy steadily improved, many Republicans denounced President Barack Obama as a socialist out to demolish the free market. Obama left office with a 77 percent approval rating among millennials. If he was a socialist, many of them must have decided, socialism can’t be so bad.

For baby boomers, the champion of capitalism was Ronald Reagan. For millennials, it’s Donald Trump. Among those who are 15 to 34, a recent poll found, two-thirds disapprove of his performance as president — and most regard him as “dishonest,” “racist” and “mentally unfit.”

lots more good points here:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...alism-capitalism-20180520-story.html#nws=true

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

In short because of Republicans they don't actually know what socialism really is.

 

[ihhawk]

If people want socialism, just go visit Venezuela for a week. Come back and see if you still want it

 

[LuteHawk]

Socialism is being totally dependent on the government
for food, clothing, and shelter. Socialism takes away the
individual incentive to make something of your life.
Socialism takes away your freedom in the name of
everyone being equal.

 

[ThorneStockton]

If people want socialism, just go visit Venezuela for a week. Come back and see if you still want it

If people want stupidity, just go read ihhawk's posts for a day. Come back and see if you still want it.

 

[ihhawk]

If people want stupidity, just go read ihhawk's posts for a day. Come back and see if you still want it.

Thank you for confirming you have no argument on the benefits of socialism

 

[hexumhawk]

If people want stupidity, just go read ihhawk's posts for a day. Come back and see if you still want it.

Well, he is correct though. There are plenty of examples of long term trials of socialism all over the globe. Non of them ever seem to turn out to well. It is either economic and social collapse or full governmental control of the people.

 

[ThorneStockton]

Thank you for confirming you have no argument on the benefits of socialism

There is no argument to be made when your intellectual capabilities are limited to shouting "Venezuela!" like a trained monkey.

You've been trained well.

 

[Big Hawk D-Port]

It amazes me that Americans can look at the miracle that is our country, and then think “we should be more like the other countries that can’t keep up with us.”

 

[ThorneStockton]

Well, he is correct though. There are plenty of examples of long term trials of socialism all over the globe. Non of them ever seem to turn out to well. It is either economic and social collapse or full governmental control of the people.

Do you ever get tired of when the liberals point to the Nordic countries as examples of successful ways to do things?

Do those counties ring a bell at all?

 

[ihhawk]

There is no argument to be made when your intellectual capabilities are limited to shouting "Venezuela!" like a trained monkey.

You've been trained well.

I’m surprised you haven’t blamed Trump Russia collusion yet.

 

[hexumhawk]

It amazes me that Americans can look at the miracle that is our country, and then think “we should be more like the other countries that can’t keep up with us.”

Agreed. We built the best country in the world that everyone wants to come to. Is it perfect...no. Was it built on perfect moral standards...no. But it is still exceptional compared to the rest of the world.

The main pillar for our greatness that has propelled us has been capitalism.

 

[hexumhawk]

Do you ever get tired of when the liberals point to the Nordic countries as examples of successful ways to do things?

Do those counties ring a bell at all?

I knew you would go there because you don't understand the argument between the two.
https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/

 

[srams21]

I knew you would go there because you don't understand the argument between the two.
https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/

You do realize the US has had elements of socialism for quite a while, right?

And most on the left, myself included, are only asking for an extended safety net. That would include UHC and a more affordable college education.

 

[ThorneStockton]

I knew you would go there because you don't understand the argument between the two.
https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/

What argument? That using Venezuela is silly and so is using the Nordic countries? Derp, maybe this whole thing is a little more complicated than shouting "Venezuela!"

But you defended that.

 

[Run&Blade]

I didn’t read the article but I think a couple factors is massive student debt caused by colleges out of control spending and reduced funding.

Another is more people wanting to get degrees in majors that don’t pay shit.

The hideous gap between the super rich and everybody else. Trickle down doesn’t work when too few people have all the money. They simply can’t spend it fast enough.

What amazes me is the democrats can’t formulate a message that wins them every election easily. I could do it in about three days.

Want to win? Increase taxes on the billionaires significantly. Add new taxes to luxury items. Pool all this money and write checks to middle class. Few people would hate that idea, even the red necks.

Increase military pay but decrease the size of the military. Close bases, close lots of foreign bases. Target 25% reduction in budget. If countries want our bases on their land to stay open they need to pay the United States. They likely will find that a good deal compared to ramping up their own military.

Cell phone tax to help cut the cost of healthcare. Even poors have cell phones.

1% national sales tax with it all going towards healthcare.

Keep it simple and don’t fire up the other side with losing issues like gun control, abortion, government funded sex changes, and other hot button issues. Win some elections and once you have some power that is the time to make your move on those items.

 

[thewop]

It amazes me that Americans can look at the miracle that is our country, and then think “we should be more like the other countries that can’t keep up with us.”

So true, I never realized how special it was until I lived other places. I think most people who live in other countries for longer than a few months grow to appreciate what we have here, and it really has nothing to do with whether you're democrat or republican.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I knew you would go there because you don't understand the argument between the two.
https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/

So reading that one should know what socialism is and is not and not say that Obama or Clinton or even Sanders is a socialist!!!!

And for the record the Scandinavian countries the government does own the oil industry there. So they are not completely socialist but the oil industry is socialist.

 

[hexumhawk]

So reading that one should know what socialism is and is not and not say that Obama or Clinton or even Sanders is a socialist!!!!

And for the record the Scandinavian countries the government does own the oil industry there. So they are not completely socialist but the oil industry is socialist.

Correct. I think the other misconception is that all republicans are against all socialist programs. I think you can survive on a mix that helps your people but doesnt make them "slaves" to the system.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Correct. I think the other misconception is that all republicans are against all socialist programs. I think you can survive on a mix that helps your people but doesnt make them "slaves" to the system.

We have no socialist programs. The social safety net as was stated isn't socialism. Socialism is about the government owning the means of production.

And most Republicans when it comes right down to it are against the social safety net.

 

[joelbc1]

Correct. I think the other misconception is that all republicans are against all socialist programs. I think you can survive on a mix that helps your people but doesnt make them "slaves" to the system.

I believe many here have a problem understanding the difference between a “social program” and a socialist program.

 

[Big Hawk D-Port]

So true, I never realized how special it was until I lived other places. I think most people who live in other countries for longer than a few months grow to appreciate what we have here, and it really has nothing to do with whether you're democrat or republican.

Maybe what I mean to say is that people aren’t curious as to why America has experienced the kind of growth that we have, while other economic powers have not. It is not a surprise or accident that we produce the world’s innovation and China, with 4 times the people we have, doesn’t. The EU has double the people we do, but they did not invent the iPhone, or Viagra or Rock & Roll. America did.

When people are free to pursue their imaginations and get rich doing it, they come up with awesome stuff that benefits everyone. When the government takes most of what you produce and decides what gets made and who gets what, you might get equality, but the overall standard of living for everyone drops.

 

[srams21]

I didn’t read the article but I think a couple factors is massive student debt caused by colleges out of control spending and reduced funding.

Another is more people wanting to get degrees in majors that don’t pay shit.

The hideous gap between the super rich and everybody else. Trickle down doesn’t work when too few people have all the money. They simply can’t spend it fast enough.

What amazes me is the democrats can’t formulate a message that wins them every election easily. I could do it in about three days.

Want to win? Increase taxes on the billionaires significantly. Add new taxes to luxury items. Pool all this money and write checks to middle class. Few people would hate that idea, even the red necks.

Increase military pay but decrease the size of the military. Close bases, close lots of foreign bases. Target 25% reduction in budget. If countries want our bases on their land to stay open they need to pay the United States. They likely will find that a good deal compared to ramping up their own military.

Cell phone tax to help cut the cost of healthcare. Even poors have cell phones.

1% national sales tax with it all going towards healthcare.

Keep it simple and don’t fire up the other side with losing issues like gun control, abortion, government funded sex changes, and other hot button issues. Win some elections and once you have some power that is the time to make your move on those items.

No offense, but I don't think adding taxes is going to win you over any righties.

Also, even mentioning decreasing military "anything" will get most righties in a tizzy.

I agree with most of your ideas too btw.

 

[naturalmwa]

Maybe what I mean to say is that people aren’t curious as to why America has experienced the kind of growth that we have, while other economic powers have not. It is not a surprise or accident that we produce the world’s innovation and China, with 4 times the people we have, doesn’t. The EU has double the people we do, but they did not invent the iPhone, or Viagra or Rock & Roll. America did.

When people are free to pursue their imaginations and get rich doing it, they come up with awesome stuff that benefits everyone. When the government takes most of what you produce and decides what gets made and who gets what, you might get equality, but the overall standard of living for everyone drops.

You should be more curious yourself. America grew because we redistributed funds to artificially create a large middle class after WW2. The iPhone was invented by government research. Your world view isn't based on facts.

 

[Moral]

 

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

I just finished reading "The Vanishing American Adult" by Senator Ben Sasse, which is a tremendous and timely read. Among other things Sasse argues that part of the reason that millennials are drawn to socialism is because their lives have largely been free of toil (mostly not their own fault), and also because due to a lack of reading, they have no concept of what made and makes America unique.

I am a millennial and am sickened by the fact that many of my contemporaries do not realize that while imperfect (as is the case with anything consisting of sinful people this side of Heaven), this is the greatest nation in the history of the world. America was an idea.

 

[srams21]

Among other things Sasse argues that part of the reason that millennials are drawn to socialism is because their lives have largely been free of toil

lol. What?

I graduated college in the midst of a truly great recession. There were very few jobs and many were paying like crap with few benefits.

My father's generation (born in the 50's) and grandfather (born in the 30's) didn't have to go to college and many got great jobs with amazing pension plans.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

In short because of Republicans they don't actually know what socialism really is.

Socialism is being totally dependent on the government
for food, clothing, and shelter. Socialism takes away the
individual incentive to make something of your life.
Socialism takes away your freedom in the name of
everyone being equal.

Lute proves Hoosier's point in the very next post.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Lute proves Hoosier's point in the very next post.

Not to mention the fact that we are already dependent upon the government for those things. The government provides law and order. Take away the forces of law and order and see how much food, clothing and shelter there is available for anyone.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

We have no socialist programs. The social safety net as was stated isn't socialism. Socialism is about the government owning the means of production.

And most Republicans when it comes right down to it are against the social safety net.

Actually, the safety net is exactly the sort of thing that socialists fought for.

Socialism isn't about the government owning the means of production. It's about the workers owning the means of production.

 

[Moral]

lol. What?

I graduated college in the midst of a truly great recession. There were very few jobs and many were paying like crap with few benefits.

My father's generation (born in the 50's) and grandfather (born in the 30's) didn't have to go to college and many got great jobs with amazing pension plans.

And there have been plenty of wars for millennials to go die in too.

Avacado bread amirite guys?

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Maybe what I mean to say is that people aren’t curious as to why America has experienced the kind of growth that we have, while other economic powers have not. It is not a surprise or accident that we produce the world’s innovation and China, with 4 times the people we have, doesn’t. The EU has double the people we do, but they did not invent the iPhone, or Viagra or Rock & Roll. America did.

When people are free to pursue their imaginations and get rich doing it, they come up with awesome stuff that benefits everyone. When the government takes most of what you produce and decides what gets made and who gets what, you might get equality, but the overall standard of living for everyone drops.

Innovation is often about resources, government, law and order, freedom.

China hasn't done so well on that part. The EU might not have invented some of the things you mentioned (I question that you can name a singular country as inventing rock and roll, I seem to remember a little band called the Beatles comming from the UK.) but the EU has made innovations of their own too.

Airbus A380 for example. . . worlds largest passenger liner.

It's not like America has been sitting here inventing and creating everything important in the world since world war 2.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Actually, the safety net is exactly the sort of thing that socialists fought for.

Socialism isn't about the government owning the means of production. It's about the workers owning the means of production.

When it comes down to the nitty gritty of how it ends up working then it ends up being the government owning the means of production. "On behalf of the workers" of course.

 

[Big Hawk D-Port]

You should be more curious yourself. America grew because we redistributed funds to artificially create a large middle class after WW2. The iPhone was invented by government research. Your world view isn't based on facts.

If redistribution led to prosperity then other countries would be lapping us, but they’re not. Of course that notion doesn’t even make common sense either.

And LOL that government research created the iPhone. Intuition based on understanding the customer created the iPhone, 2 things government agencies neither posses nor desire.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

There is no argument to be made when your intellectual capabilities are limited to shouting "Venezuela!" like a trained monkey.

You've been trained well.

Give an example. And then apply it to a population of 360,000 people where the people who champion socialism also champion letting as many people as possible coming into the country without any restrictions and never asking them to leave. Then compare that to a place like Denmark who has some of the strictest immigration policy on earth and barely the population of Vermont.

 

[Big Hawk D-Port]

Innovation is often about resources, government, law and order, freedom.

China hasn't done so well on that part. The EU might not have invented some of the things you mentioned (I question that you can name a singular country as inventing rock and roll, I seem to remember a little band called the Beatles comming from the UK.) but the EU has made innovations of their own too.

Airbus A380 for example. . . worlds largest passenger liner.

It's not like America has been sitting here inventing and creating everything important in the world since world war 2.

It’s not like Europe or Asia never get anything right. Of course they have smart people too. But America has indeed created MOST of the important stuff since WW2, because we have millions of entrepreneurs trying and failing / succeeding at a scale no other country does.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

If people want socialism, just go visit Venezuela for a week. Come back and see if you still want it

Or Switzerland...or Finland...or Denmark...or....

 

[naturalmwa]

If redistribution led to prosperity then other countries would be lapping us, but they’re not. Of course that notion doesn’t even make common sense either.

And LOL that government research created the iPhone. Intuition based on understanding the customer created the iPhone, 2 things government agencies neither posses nor desire.

Your curiosity is failing you.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

It’s not like Europe or Asia never get anything right. Of course they have smart people too. But America has indeed created MOST of the important stuff since WW2, because we have millions of entrepreneurs trying and failing / succeeding at a scale no other country does.

No mostly because for the first 20 or 30 years we where busy building ourselves up into a superpower while the rest of the world was trying to re-build.

You can't ignore that we where the only industrialized country that was pretty much untouched at home by the war. Our cities where not battlefields, our factories where not bombed.

Europe was pretty much flattened by warfare. China had that war and their civil war plus a crappy commie government.

Also the EU isn't a single country. They only recently within the last 15 or so years gotten one single currency. They still all have kept their native languages. So I don't think you can quite treat them like they are the United States of Europe. At least not yet.

I am guessing that if you look from the 1980's onward we don't have such a big advantage.

 

[ThorneStockton]

Give an example. And then apply it to a population of 360,000 people where the people who champion socialism also champion letting as many people as possible coming into the country without any restrictions and never asking them to leave. Then compare that to a place like Denmark who has some of the strictest immigration policy on earth and barely the population of Vermont.

Did you mean to reply to my post?