Group of Illinois pediatricians call for schools to open

[artradley]

Letter To The Editor: Local Pediatricians, With American Academy Of Pediatrics And CDC, Share Strong Recommendation For In-Person Schooling | RiverBender.com

Dated Aug 30, 2020As local pediatricians, in unity with the American Academy of Pediatrics and CDC, we write today to share our strong recommendation fo

www.riverbender.com

This points out that the current strategies for many schools is short-sighted, counter productive, and not well thought out. And the responses after the article demonstrate how people are quick to listen to experts, until they don't like what those experts are saying.

Couple of paragraphs worth noting:

Eliminating students from the classroom does not eliminate their risk of acquiring COVID19 from our community. When students are not in school parents must either cut back on work or find a responsible party to care for them. Some families are sending their students to daycares while others are piecing together childcare throughout the week. Either way, this is compromising the education of our young people and often nullifying the safety of ‘staying at home.’ At school, through cohorting and masking, we can control to a great extent the exposures the students have. Outside of school, students mingle without masks in uncontrolled settings, putting them at increased risk relative to in-person school and resulting in a rise in community numbers. There will be risk of infection during a pandemic, but it is important to consider that community activities and gatherings external to school are likely a greater source of transmission than in-classroom learning under the oversight of responsible adults.

...

Remote learning represents immediate practical complications like poor Wi-Fi connectivity, difficulty engaging students who are uncomfortable communicating via Zoom, and spreading caregivers thin as they juggle their students and their own work responsibilities. The consequences of remote learning will be far-reaching and may last for years to come. Already we are seeing a significant increase in child abuse cases in our pediatric emergency rooms and treating more depression in our offices. Beyond the educational shortcomings of remote learning, children are missing out on critical services such as speech and physical therapy, assessment of learning disabilities, social skills development and counseling services, school breakfasts and lunches, and opportunities to identify and address abuse and food insecurity.

 

[hawkeye54545]

In before HROT "experts" tell us why pediatricians are wrong.

 

[Pinehawk]

Perhaps those Doctors haven't heard from Joe's Place yet...

 

[artradley]

In before HROT "experts" tell us why pediatricians are wrong.

Oh, all the local "experts" weighed-in on that web site. "Total Bullshit", "Bullshit", "What about the teachers!"

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Mask up. Stay home if you're sick. Do the best you can.

Life needs to go on. Play football. Go to school.

 

[mcgrawfsu]

This is the 4th week of on-campus education in my district. Teachers have been in for 6 weeks. There have been a few asymptomatic positives in the entire district but so far no person to person transmission or infections from attending school. Even the teachers who were keeping their kids home are now bringing them back to school. Not every district is taking the same measures as mine, but this shows it can work.

The first football games are this week, so that will be another important step IMO to see whether further opening can occur.

Our county had 3 days last week with no new cases and no days above 8 new cases for the past 2 weeks. The peak in cases this summer was around 250.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

your last bolded sentence is conjecture. They including teachers have no way of knowing what the long term effects will be. At best you are weighing two unknown entities. Online school vs potential extension of the covid crisis and at this point there is really no evidence which is worse.
Why aren't people aren't up in arms about the Des Moines virtual academy or the numerous other online academies that parents use to homeschool their kids, not to mention the thousands of unqualified parents that homeschool their kids. Or the kids that don't see any other adult and are mistreated at home with the protection of being "schooled at home".
Being at school is better than online. No debate but maybe we should trust the local districts.

 

[PerkyForHerky]

Oh, all the local "experts" weighed-in on that web site. "Total Bullshit", "Bullshit", "What about the teachers!"

The teachers that I know (a few neighbors, as well as the superintendent living across the street) all got in to education to educate kids. They truly enjoy it. And they seem to be willing to give it a shot to be in school with the kids. The people that are so worried about the teachers have good intentions but maybe they should ask the teachers what they want. What about the teachers? Well, ask them.

 

[artradley]

your last bolded sentence is conjecture. They including teachers have no way of knowing what the long term effects will be. At best you are weighing two unknown entities. Online school vs potential extension of the covid crisis and at this point there is really no evidence which is worse.
Why aren't people aren't up in arms about the Des Moines virtual academy or the numerous other online academies that parents use to homeschool their kids, not to mention the thousands of unqualified parents that homeschool their kids. Or the kids that don't see any other adult and are mistreated at home with the protection of being "schooled at home".
Being at school is better than online. No debate but maybe we should trust the local districts.

Big difference between parents choosing an online school or home schooling versus having it thrust upon them when they don't have the means to make it work. And a lot of us do have misgivings about home-schooling unless the state has safeguards in place. And none of that, in any way, discredits what these pediatricians are saying.

And, no, I don't trust local school districts who are making fear-based decisions rather than listening to the experts.

 

[artradley]

The teachers that I know (a few neighbors, as well as the superintendent living across the street) all got in to education to educate kids. They truly enjoy it. And they seem to be willing to give it a shot to be in school with the kids. The people that are so worried about the teachers have good intentions but maybe they should ask the teachers what they want. What about the teachers? Well, ask them.

Unfortunately, a lot of them are also irrationally panicked about this. A school district outside of Buffalo (where the pandemic is fundamentally gone) asked teachers to show up in their empty classroom two or three times a week and conduct their Zoom classes from there. AND THEY WERE UP IN ARMS ABOUT IT! They are taking medical leaving, resigning, and announcing through their union that despite their schools implementing all the measures recommended by the state it is not safe to spend a few hours in a classroom by themselves.

My wife does physical therapy in schools and is beside herself that her special needs kids have been abandoned since March (with no end in sight) and is completely willing to meet with them in person, because helping kids is her calling. And she has to be in direct contact with her kids. But she knows that with a face shield and face mask, and spending most of her time a few steps away from the child she is working with, she is safe. That so many teachers would rather abandon their students than "risk" being in a room with them (at a distance, with PPE) is depressing to me.

 

[BelemNole]

The teachers that I know (a few neighbors, as well as the superintendent living across the street) all got in to education to educate kids. They truly enjoy it. And they seem to be willing to give it a shot to be in school with the kids. The people that are so worried about the teachers have good intentions but maybe they should ask the teachers what they want. What about the teachers? Well, ask them.

I have a friend that teaches at a university out near you all, she thinks opening back up to on campus learning will likely kill her. Buy hey, football!!

 

[QChawks]

Mask up. Stay home if you're sick. Do the best you can.

Life needs to go on. Play football. Go to school.

amen brother!

 

[artradley]

I have a friend that teaches at a university out near you all, she thinks opening back up to on campus learning will likely kill her. Buy hey, football!!

She is irrational, and part of the problem. I would suggest she take a year off. Perhaps she can DoorDash for a while.

 

[PerkyForHerky]

I have a friend that teaches at a university out near you all, she thinks opening back up to on campus learning will likely kill her. Buy hey, football!!

Does she have options to offer her services remote?

 

[PerkyForHerky]

Unfortunately, a lot of them are also irrationally panicked about this. A school district outside of Buffalo (where the pandemic is fundamentally gone) asked teachers to show up in their empty classroom two or three times a week and conduct their Zoom classes from there. AND THEY WERE UP IN ARMS ABOUT IT! They are taking medical leaving, resigning, and announcing through their union that despite their schools implementing all the measures recommended by the state it is not safe to spend a few hours in a classroom by themselves.

My wife does physical therapy in schools and is beside herself that her special needs kids have been abandoned since March (with no end in sight) and is completely willing to meet with them in person, because helping kids is her calling. And she has to be in direct contact with her kids. But she knows that with a face shield and face mask, and spending most of her time a few steps away from the child she is working with, she is safe. That so many teachers would rather abandon their students than "risk" being in a room with them (at a distance, with PPE) is depressing to me.

I understand that some teachers may not be willing, or hesitant at least, to return to in person education. I don't really hold it against them either, especially considering the vast majority of them likely either have children at home to think about or may be higher in age. My concern is that if people are over the top concerned with the "what about the teachers" issue.. they need to be sure they know what the teachers want. It will vary by family, by location, of course.. but the ones that I know and have asked around here are all for in person. My sister-in-law in small town Minnesota, where there is a lot of processing plants and all (there is/was a Tyson there.. whatever it is called now, it had been hit hard) hates that she is back in the school, and I get her concern as well.

 

[Fijimn]

Is Illinois 100% at home? Our district gives parents the option, but in-school is phased in for the first 4 weeks (i believe that is correct), where the in-school kids start of with 2 days in school the in-school kids are separated into three groups.

 

[BelemNole]

She is irrational, and part of the problem. I would suggest she take a year off. Perhaps she can DoorDash for a while.

What do you know about her that makes you think she's irrational?

 

[JohnBasedow]

Big difference between parents choosing an online school or home schooling versus having it thrust upon them when they don't have the means to make it work. And a lot of us do have misgivings about home-schooling unless the state has safeguards in place. And none of that, in any way, discredits what these pediatricians are saying.

And, no, I don't trust local school districts who are making fear-based decisions rather than listening to the experts.

I agree that there is a difference between homeschooling being chosen and mandatory but that doesn’t take away from the fact that it is conjecture that there will be long term effects.

Forgive me but I haven’t been following the school issues for every specific area. Are there school districts requiring mandatory virtual learning? The schools here are giving families the option of choosing in person or virtual.

 

[anon_89hvcc2uyzmki]

File all of this under "No SH*T Sherlock".

Currently trying to "teach" my Kindergartner and 3rd grader from home while also doing a full time job. It's not working for any of us. And not only that. Even when it is working....it is still short changing my children who are missing out on VITAL social learning and growth opportunities.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Big difference between parents choosing an online school or home schooling versus having it thrust upon them when they don't have the means to make it work. And a lot of us do have misgivings about home-schooling unless the state has safeguards in place. And none of that, in any way, discredits what these pediatricians are saying.

And, no, I don't trust local school districts who are making fear-based decisions rather than listening to the experts.

Pediatricians making blanket statements is of little consequence. Let me know what the epidemiologists and viral experts have to say. A Fear based decision would be not trusting your locally elected officials and superintendent to do whats best for kids locally. That's just as bad if not worse.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Letter To The Editor: Local Pediatricians, With American Academy Of Pediatrics And CDC, Share Strong Recommendation For In-Person Schooling | RiverBender.com

Dated Aug 30, 2020As local pediatricians, in unity with the American Academy of Pediatrics and CDC, we write today to share our strong recommendation fo

www.riverbender.com

This points out that the current strategies for many schools is short-sighted, counter productive, and not well thought out. And the responses after the article demonstrate how people are quick to listen to experts, until they don't like what those experts are saying.

Couple of paragraphs worth noting:

Eliminating students from the classroom does not eliminate their risk of acquiring COVID19 from our community. When students are not in school parents must either cut back on work or find a responsible party to care for them. Some families are sending their students to daycares while others are piecing together childcare throughout the week. Either way, this is compromising the education of our young people and often nullifying the safety of ‘staying at home.’ At school, through cohorting and masking, we can control to a great extent the exposures the students have. Outside of school, students mingle without masks in uncontrolled settings, putting them at increased risk relative to in-person school and resulting in a rise in community numbers. There will be risk of infection during a pandemic, but it is important to consider that community activities and gatherings external to school are likely a greater source of transmission than in-classroom learning under the oversight of responsible adults.

...

Remote learning represents immediate practical complications like poor Wi-Fi connectivity, difficulty engaging students who are uncomfortable communicating via Zoom, and spreading caregivers thin as they juggle their students and their own work responsibilities. The consequences of remote learning will be far-reaching and may last for years to come. Already we are seeing a significant increase in child abuse cases in our pediatric emergency rooms and treating more depression in our offices. Beyond the educational shortcomings of remote learning, children are missing out on critical services such as speech and physical therapy, assessment of learning disabilities, social skills development and counseling services, school breakfasts and lunches, and opportunities to identify and address abuse and food insecurity.

Not to mention the article says that kids are not primary spreaders. Based on what evidence? They haven't been in school since march.

 

[SalAunese]

Well, I guess we can all agree that our experts cannot come to a general consensus regarding this issue. Hardly surprising.

 

[Tom Paris]

Big difference between parents choosing an online school or home schooling versus having it thrust upon them when they don't have the means to make it work. And a lot of us do have misgivings about home-schooling unless the state has safeguards in place. And none of that, in any way, discredits what these pediatricians are saying.

And, no, I don't trust local school districts who are making fear-based decisions rather than listening to the experts.

LOL. Our super IS listening to the experts...local experts. The governor is listening to Dear Leader...but you don't seem to have a problem with that.

 

[artradley]

Not to mention the article says that kids are not primary spreaders. Based on what evidence? They haven't been in school since march.

Understood - you got a better handle on this than the pediatricians. So long as we are clear - that the only experts to be believed are the ones you agree with.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

My own anecdotal evidence that no one asked for:

- Local suburban school district opened in-person learning three weeks ago. A large contingent of teachers resigned the Friday before for medical purposes. They were asked two months earlier to designate if they had intended to teach in-person but waited till the last minute. The teachers that did “resign” all came from the high school science department. No other teachers resigned. The zip-code is reporting a steady decline in COVID cases each week over the last month and are well within State Health guidelines.
- News is reporting State Teachers Education Association leaders are encouraging more last minute teacher sick-outs.

 

[SalAunese]

LOL. Our super IS listening to the experts...local experts. The governor is listening to Dear Leader...but you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Iowa schools didn’t even have a good contingency plan for last March.

 

[Tom Paris]

Iowa schools didn’t even have a good contingency plan for last March.

Because fear of lawsuits.

 

[artradley]

What do you know about her that makes you think she's irrational?

That she thinks she will "likely" die if classes are held on campus. A nursing home patient can sit in a room full of COVID patients and let them spit in their face, and they won't be "likely" to die.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

@torbee I know you have been very in tune with what is going on across the river, thoughts here?

 

[Finance85]

My own anecdotal evidence that no one asked for:

- Local suburban school district opened in-person learning three weeks ago. A large contingent of teachers resigned the Friday before for medical purposes. They were asked two months earlier to designate if they had intended to teach in-person but waited till the last minute. The teachers that did “resign” all came from the high school science department. No other teachers resigned. The zip-code is reporting a steady decline in COVID cases each week over the last month and are well within State Health guidelines.
- News is reporting State Teachers Education Association leaders are encouraging more last minute teacher sick-outs.

For the record, I am for having an in-person option. I also believe everyone is responsible for their own health decisions. I will not criticize someone for making the decision to quit their job because they fear for their health. They need to find a new career where they don't have to interact with people.

My position is there should be options, for both in-person learning, and remote learning. I'm not sure why it can't be that simple, and why anyone is against having an in-person option, as long as there is still a remote option.

 

[BelemNole]

That she thinks she will "likely" die if classes are held on campus. A nursing home patient can sit in a room full of COVID patients and let them spit in their face, and they won't be "likely" to die.

That's a stupid comment - which has been par for the course for you on this topic. It all depends on their underlying health, and my friend has factors that makes being exposed to covid a dangerous proposition.

 

[LuteHawk]

First of all, there are NO "Experts" on Covid19 and in
classroom teaching. Everyone is pushing an agenda
that is self-centered. Parents and teachers have
various ideas about what is best for them personally.

Secondly, the students in grade school & high school
could survive one year of online learning. Some districts
are better than others in the quality of their instruction.
Hopefully, cooler heads prevail and we get through this.

 

[artradley]

That's a stupid comment - which has been par for the course for you on this topic. It all depends on their underlying health, and my friend has factors that makes being exposed to covid a dangerous proposition.

Do you have any statistic you can point to that describes any demographic that has over a 50% of dying if they contract the corona virus?

Further, she didn't say she is likely to die if she contracts the Corona virus; she is likely to die if in-person classes are held. As if she can't take a semester off, or has no way of preventing herself from contracting the virus.

That's just silly. It's part of the irrational din that has been driving all of our decisions.

 

[anon_89hvcc2uyzmki]

Because fear of lawsuits.

Individuals/businesses/schools etc have liability insurance for this very reason. Schools get sued on the regular. This is not something that is rare. If you haven't noticed the courts are all back logged because we are a very litigious society.

Nobody will ever win a suit relating to covid and successfully proving where they contracted it. If they did (again they won't) it would set legal precedent for anybody who ever got the flu/cold etc to sue any person/school etc. Stop with the legal fear porn. Stop with the covid flu porn.

 

[RileyHawk]

Understood - you got a better handle on this than the pediatricians. So long as we are clear - that the only experts to be believed are the ones you agree with.

You saying this is rich.

 

[artradley]

You saying this is rich.

Do you have any instances you can point to where I have not?

 

[OrlandNole]

Letter To The Editor: Local Pediatricians, With American Academy Of Pediatrics And CDC, Share Strong Recommendation For In-Person Schooling | RiverBender.com

Dated Aug 30, 2020As local pediatricians, in unity with the American Academy of Pediatrics and CDC, we write today to share our strong recommendation fo

www.riverbender.com

Remote learning represents immediate practical complications like poor Wi-Fi connectivity, difficulty engaging students who are uncomfortable communicating via Zoom, and spreading caregivers thin as they juggle their students and their own work responsibilities. The consequences of remote learning will be far-reaching and may last for years to come. Already we are seeing a significant increase in child abuse cases in our pediatric emergency rooms and treating more depression in our offices. Beyond the educational shortcomings of remote learning, children are missing out on critical services such as speech and physical therapy, assessment of learning disabilities, social skills development and counseling services, school breakfasts and lunches, and opportunities to identify and address abuse and food insecurity.

As a parent of a public school teacher, I can anecdotally confirm many of these things. Remote learning is almost worthless for children with learning disabilities.

Dammit, people, wear your effing masks!

 

[RileyHawk]

Do you have any insurances you can point to where I have not?

Lol - "insurances"? No, but this thread is a classic "instance".

 

[anon_89hvcc2uyzmki]

As a parent of a public school teacher, I can anecdotally confirm many of these things. Remote learning is almost worthless for children with learning disabilities.

Dammit, people, wear your effing masks!

It's worthless for those without learning disabilities. Supremely so for the k-5 group.

 

[artradley]

Lol - "insurances"? No, but this thread is a classic "instance".

Um, this thread is about experts suggesting remote learning to avoid the virusis a bad idea. And I am agreeing with them.