Have we talked about JD Vance admiting the modern GOP is an extension of the Confederacy?

[torbee]

Apalling, but unsurprising:

JD Vance and the “Southern Bourbons”​

Kind of weird to see yourself as part of a modern incarnation of the Civil War—and that you’re on the side of the slaveholders.​

Jonathan V. Last
Sep 12, 2024

1. Choosing Sides
​

The other day JD Vance did that thing where conservatives talk about modern America in terms of civil war.

But there was a twist. Vance wasn’t talking about a civil war. He was talking about the Civil War. And he was locating the battle lines in an intriguing way: He said that today’s liberals were like the Yankees.



I agree with Vance, actually. I’m just kind of shocked that he’s willing to admit that in this parallel, Democrats and liberals are the abolitionists and he’s on the side of the slaveholders.

Actually, scratch that. I’m not shocked at all.

To his credit, Vance has enough sense not to say “slaveholders” out loud. Instead, he deploys a classy euphemism, calling those Very Fine People “Southern Bourbons.” That’s nice.

You should read his full quote, because it’s even more nativist than it sounds.

American history is a constant war between Northern Yankees and Southern Bourbons, where whichever side the hillbillies are on, wins. And that’s kind of how I think about American politics today, is like, the Northern Yankees are now the hyper-woke, coastal elites. The Southern Bourbons are sort of the same old-school Southern folks that have been around and influential in this country for 200 years. And it’s like the hillbillies have really started to migrate towards the Southern Bourbons instead of the Northern woke people. That’s just a fundamental thing that’s happening in American politics.

In Vance’s telling, the Yankee coastal elites are a . . . novel . . . group of people. But the “Southern Bourbons” are just the same folks who’ve been around for 200 years. You might even call them Real Americans, I guess.

---

This ties in neatly with Vance’s speech at the Republican National Convention in which he made Buchananism the explicit view of the Republican party. Here was the most important passage:

You know, one of the things that you hear people say sometimes is that America is an idea. And to be clear, America was indeed founded on brilliant ideas, like the rule of law and religious liberty. Things written into the fabric of our Constitution and our nation. But America is not just an idea. It is a group of people with a shared history and a common future. It is, in short, a nation.
Now, it is part of that tradition, of course, that we welcome newcomers. But when we allow newcomers into our American family, we allow them on our terms.

Let’s unpack that. In Vance’s view,

• America was founded on some ideas, but is not an idea.
• It is a nation, meaning a distinct patch of land with historical inhabitants.1
• Immigration to America is only “part of” a “tradition.”
• To the extent that this tradition is allowed to continue, it must be on terms dictated by the “American family.”
• In this “family,” the votes of some members count more than others.2

Those ideas put that “Southern Bourbon” talk about “folks that have been around and influential in this country for 200 years” in an . . . interesting light.

 

[torbee]

Fake But Accurate
​

One more thing about JD Vance. But first, we have to talk a little bit about history.

Two of the formative controversies of my journalism career were fights over Rigoberta Menchú and George W. Bush’s Texas Air National Guard service.

You probably remember the Bush-TexANG story, in which fake documents were planted supposedly showing that Bush served dishonorably. 60 Minutes got suckered by these fakes. It was kind of a big deal.

I covered this story at the time and I was pretty hung up on the fact that the documents were forgeries. Many people on the left argued that even if the docs weren’t legitimate, the story was “fake, but true,” because Bush was a terrible person who must have served dishonorably.

---

The story of Rigoberta Menchú is slightly more obscure. A Guatemalan human rights activist, Menchú published a testimony of her life in 1983. The book was called I, Rigoberta Menchú and it was widely acclaimed as witness of the terrible treatment of indigenous peoples. In 1992, she was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize on the strength of her activism, which was derived largely from the platform her influential book created for her.

In 1998 an anthropologist named David Stoll published a book documenting several major discrepancies between Menchú’s account of her life and other evidence.

Over the course of a few years, this controversy blew back and forth. There was a movement to revoke Menchú’s Nobel prize. (It failed.) I didn’t cover this story at the time—I only followed it. But the fight broke down along the same basic lines: Some people (like me) thought it was important (and wrong) that Menchú had lied about key details of her life. On the other hand, Menchú’s ideological allies maintained that even if the specific details of her story never took place, there had been terrible human rights abuses in Guatemala. So her story was “fake, but true.”

---

I mention this ancient history because it’s illustrative of how our ideological poles have swapped places.

After the presidential debate, Kaitlan Collins pressed JD Vance about the Springfield, Ohio, cat/dog eating story.


The end result is that when Vance is called out for spreading false memes, he says that he’s going to keep spreading false memes. They may or may not be baseless, he says, but they’re the only way to get “the media” to cover the real problems with immigration.

Here’s Vance:

Whether those exact rumors turn out to be somewhat true, mostly true—whatever the case may be4—Kaitlan, this town has been ravaged by 20,000 migrants coming in. Healthcare costs are up. Housing costs are up. Communicable diseases like HIV and TB have skyrocketed in this small Ohio town. . . .
And I think it’s interesting, Kaitlan, that the media did not care about the carnage wrought by these policies until we turned it into a meme about cats. . . .
If we have to meme about it to get the media to care, we’re going to keep on doing it.

In other words: Fake, but true.

---

One last thing: Notice how Vance defends his lies by saying that they are necessary to force “the media” to care about this small Ohio town.

But why does it matter if “the media” cares about the problems in Springfield, Ohio?

Is CNN going to lower housing costs in Springfield? Are MSNBC or Fox going to open clinics and hire more healthcare providers for Springfield?

Springfield has a mayor (Rob Rue5). Ohio has a governor (Republican Mike DeWine). It has a congressional representative (Republican Warren Davidson). Springfield even has a couple of United States senators, one of whom is a Republican. His name is JD Vance.

If Vance were interested in solving the challenges presented by immigration, then he would be working with state and local governments, as well as private civic groups, to address the specific problems.

The fact that Vance justifies spreading lies by saying that it’s the only way to get media attention kind of gives the game away.

It’s even worse than “fake, but true.”

What JD Vance is doing something more protean, and sinister.

 

[millah_22]

He also said lying and fabricating stories is okay as long as he gets his point across.

 

[BelemNole]

He is the new republican party, truth is irrelevant, only grievances matter.

 

[TarponSpringsNole]

The guy is a complete dud. A dullard with incel type tendencies, who I find annoyingly nauseating.

 

[McLovin32]

The more I hear JD Vance talk the more I believe he might actually **** couches.

 

[bunsen82]

Vance was on CNBC the other day, and honestly had a fairly decent interview by his standards. However Joe Kernen is full blown republican, so in most cases it is fairly safe confines for republicans unless Andrew starts in. You know you the republicans are way off in right field if Becky steps in LOL. In either case I thought he came off ok.

However, I am just waiting for the debates. If I am Walz, every reply would be how do we know if that is the truth or not, he has already stated he will lie to prove a point. On voting records state he wants to give child bearing voters more votes and try to isolate the cat ladies. Then I would pull out the zinger, I would really like to talk about couches, but I know that is a false story so would never bring it up. I think you could have him in such a twisted pretzel by the end of the debate he wouldn't be able to get untied. It really wouldn't be that difficult. Hell bring this stuff up, some of his ideas are just way off in left field. The last line would be he is currently the representative of Ohio, and his own constituents in springfield he was willing to throw under the bus with a lie, that he admits to, that has resulted in bomb threats to the school and hospital. If he thinks this is presidential behavior, the only way to show them that is not is at the polls.

 

[torbee]

Pro-confederacy should be disqualifying for federal office IMO.

 

[goldmom]

Pro-conderate should be disqualifying for federal office IMO.

Pro conderate?
Heck I agree. Those pro-cons are terrible.

 

[Firekirknow]

The couch story was also fake but true

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

The couch story was also fake but true

?

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

The guy is a complete dud. A dullard with incel type tendencies, who I find annoyingly nauseating.

Well said.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

It kinda fits. Get their ass handed to them and won't admit defeat.

 

[torbee]

It kinda fits. Get their ass handed to them and won't admit defeat.

JD "Lost Cause" Vance

Sounds like a losing confederate cavalry general, lol.

 

[ihhawk]

He also said lying and fabricating stories is okay as long as he gets his point across.

Harry Reid style?

 

[thewop]

However, I am just waiting for the debates. If I am Walz, every reply would be how do we know if that is the truth or not, he has already stated he will lie to prove a point.

With Walz credibility, that won't be an effective strategy for him.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

“ By any means necessary “ - Malcolm X …

 

[Tom Paris]

Harry Reid style?

Link to Reid saying this?

 

[millah_22]

The more I hear JD Vance talk the more I believe he might actually **** couches.

Northern is disgusted by this statement. Honestly what you posted is worse than anything Trump or Vance has ever said or done.

 

[southlakehawk]

Were JD and Steve King in the same classroom??

 

[Slappy Pappy]

It's helpful to remember that Hitler and the Nazi Party's antisemitism and anti-LGBT policies were inspired by, and closely followed, the policies and politics of the white American South:

How the Nazis Were Inspired by Jim Crow | HISTORY

To craft legal discrimination, the Third Reich studied the United States.

www.history.com

 

[millah_22]

It's helpful to remember that Hitler and the Nazi Party's antisemitism and anti-LGBT policies were inspired by, and closely followed, the policies and politics of the white American South:

How the Nazis Were Inspired by Jim Crow | HISTORY

To craft legal discrimination, the Third Reich studied the United States.

www.history.com

Mah heritage!

 

[alaskanseminole]

TL;DR Summary:

The article critiques JD Vance’s views on modern American politics by drawing comparisons to the Civil War. Vance likens liberals to Northern Yankees and conservatives to Southern Bourbons, who represent old-school Southern values. The author points out that Vance's analogy indirectly aligns him with the side of the Confederacy, though he avoids explicitly mentioning slavery, opting instead for the euphemism "Southern Bourbons." Vance also emphasizes the importance of America as a nation with shared history rather than simply an idea, asserting that immigration should occur on terms set by the "American family."

The article also touches on how Vance defends spreading false information, such as a meme about migrants eating pets in Ohio, as a tactic to draw media attention to immigration issues. The author compares this defense to past political controversies, where false stories were justified as "fake, but true." The writer argues that Vance’s approach reveals a willingness to manipulate facts for political gain, rather than focusing on real solutions for problems like immigration.

 

[jasonrann]

Considering he would probably fook up a two-car parade, not much would surprise me.

 

[franklinman]

J D Vance = weird, could probably use a brain transplant.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

MAGA is a throwback to the old-school, pre-Civil Rights-era, Jim Crow Democrats who dominated Southern politics for a century after the Reconstruction.

 

[franklinman]

MAGA is a throwback to the old-school, pre-Civil Rights-era, Jim Crow Democrats who dominated Southern politics for a century after the Reconstruction.

In other words, unamerican assholes.

 

[Thunderlips71]

It’s no surprise he’s siding with the inbred, treasonous losers.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

In Iowa terms, I’m probably about as hillbilly and redneck as they come. If JD thinks I’d be standing on his side in a hypothetical disagreement, then he’s just wrong. I used to actually respect the guy a bit before he sold his soul for political ambitions.

 

[FlickShagwell]

MAGA is a throwback to the old-school, pre-Civil Rights-era, Jim Crow Democrats who dominated Southern politics for a century after the Reconstruction.

Or the mid century John Birch society - far right wingers, conspiracy theorists, suspicious that everyone including Dwight Eisenhower was secretly a communist.

 

[ihhawk]

Link to Reid saying this?

You don’t remember him making up the Romney tax issue

https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/31/politics/harry-reid-dana-bash-interview/index.html

Also

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/15/harry-reid-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes-hes-still-not-sorry/

 

[bagdropper]

If there actually are aliens on this earth, and by some circumstance their first contact with humans was with Vance - they'd probably report back to their superiors that there's no sign of intelligent life on this planet.

 

[DPUboiler]

I had to google the phrase "Southern Bourbons" to see if I somehow was unfamiliar with this nomenclature. I can find nothing on this term ever being used before. What is this about? Did he just make up a phrase? Why is he using this phrase? Is he trying to somehow "own" bourbon for the R's? Very strange.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

I had to google the phrase "Southern Bourbons" to see if I somehow was unfamiliar with this nomenclature. I can find nothing on this term ever being used before. What is this about? Did he just make up a phrase? Why is he using this phrase? Is he trying to somehow "own" bourbon for the R's? Very strange.

I really don’t think he even knows what he’s talking about.

 

[fsu1jreed]

Pro-confederacy should be disqualifying for federal office IMO.

That would be almost all of the GQP

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

I had to google the phrase "Southern Bourbons" to see if I somehow was unfamiliar with this nomenclature. I can find nothing on this term ever being used before. What is this about? Did he just make up a phrase? Why is he using this phrase? Is he trying to somehow "own" bourbon for the R's? Very strange.

I think he was referring to

Bourbon Democrat - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Flie]

I find it fascinating how modern day republicans like to claim both the confederates and the union, depending on the context. "The republicans freed the slaves" is a common narrative I see expressed over the last year or so. That's an attempt to show how bad democrats are and have always been. "Look at all of the bad things democrats have done throughout history" and much of the list is from the confederate era.

Clearly, modern day republicans (MAGA specifically) identify with the old south in pretty much every way. The old south was made up mostly of democrats.

I get pounced on when I refer to the rebel flag as a democrat flag. I say that tongue in cheek.

 

[DPUboiler]

I think he was referring to

Bourbon Democrat - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Thank you for posting - appears you are correct.

 

[pink shizzle]

The more I hear JD Vance talk the more I believe he might actually **** couches.

Leather with lube or do you think he goes in dry and likes the burn?

 

[McLovin32]

Leather with lube or do you think he goes in dry and likes the burn?

Goddammit, I don't want to think about it in that much detail!

......He's a dry guy