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"He is Lenin. But Stalin loiters in the wings"

torbee

HB King
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Puppet President

by William Kristol

At midday yesterday, as debate raged about continuing resolutions and debt limits and a government shutdown, President-elect Donald Trump’s incoming White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, put out a statement.

Her important but unnamed topic: Elon Musk.

For the preceding twenty-four hours, Musk had been at the center of the Republican universe. It was he who was getting the credit, the blame, and above all the attention for his decisive role in killing the continuing resolution negotiated by Speaker Mike Johnson. Trump, by contrast, had praised Johnson earlier in the week, and had been relatively silent as Musk wreaked his havoc. Trump only weighed in against the CR after the deed was done.

It seemed, as Nick Catoggio of the Dispatch put it, to be “the first time since Trump took over the party that some other populist has managed to impose his will on it.”

That perception couldn’t be allowed to stand, so Leavitt hurried to set the record straight. “As soon as President Trump released his official stance on the CR, Republicans on Capitol Hill echoed his point of view. President Trump is the leader of the Republican Party. Full stop.”

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

And in her protest I spy a ray of hope.

As Catoggio writes, what’s striking is that Musk’s incitement of a grassroots rebellion against the CR “succeeded so spectacularly that even Donald Trump was caught off-guard.” Furthermore, “the obsequiousness that some members of Congress showed Musk as he pushed them around was also striking, as that sort of thing is typically reserved for the cult leader.”

Catoggio sums up the implication of what we all saw:

Never before in the Trump era has another populist commanded the political and financial capital needed to credibly threaten Republican politicians into doing his bidding. This is entirely new. . . . For the first time, there’s a possibility that Trump will be out-Trumped.
This thought has undoubtedly occurred to Trump. And Musk is undoubtedly aware Trump’s had this thought. That’s why Musk hastened to post, “First of all, I’m not the author of this proposal. Credit to @realDonaldTrump, @JDVance & @SpeakerJohnson.” It’s why, overnight, Musk posted again, accusing Trump’s critics of trying to drive a wedge between him and the president-elect by giving him the title “President Musk.”

The man doth protest too unconvincingly.

So what lies ahead on this front? Can Musk co-exist with Trump? Does Trump try to clip Musk’s wings? Does Musk try to edge Trump aside even as Trump has the Oval Office? Can he? Out in the country, could DOGE gradually replace MAGA as the ascendant authoritarian movement?

Could Musk run, as a Republican or as an independent, for president in 2028? He’s not a natural-born citizen. But why would he and his supporters let a phrase in a centuries-old document stand in his way? The will of the people is what matters. As Musk has tweeted more than once, Vox populi = Vox dei.

Trump seems, judging from his 3:00 am tweets, to be staying awake nights. He should be. It’s his movement. Or, at least, it has been his movement. He’s Lenin. But Stalin loiters in the wings.
 
We have moved past Hitler and gone to Stalin.........


I know you guys really want this Elon/Trump thing to be a thing, but Trump is an old dude who has been around dudes his whole life, he knows how to deal with "useful idiots" ( in the theme of the thread)
You probably should defer to William Kristol's knowledge of politics and history - he is an old time conservative with quite the bonafides.

Curriculum Vitae

WILLIAM KRISTOL

EDUCATION

Ph.D., Harvard University, in political science, 1979. A.B., Harvard University, magna cum laude in government, 1973.

EMPLOYMENT Editor, The Weekly Standard, June 1995-present.

Visiting Lecturer, Government Department, Harvard, Spring Semester 2003, Academic Year 2005-2006, Spring Semester 2007 and 2008.

Chairman, Project for the Republican Future, November 1993-May 1995. Director, The Bradley Project on the 90s, The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, JanuaryNovember 1993.

Chief of Staff to the Vice President, The White House, May 1989-January 1993; Assistant to the Vice President for Domestic Policy, January 1989-May 1989. Chief of Staff and Counselor to the Secretary, U.S. Department of Education, December 1985July 1988.

Special Assistant to the Secretary, July 1985-December 1985. Assistant Professor of Public Policy, Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, 19831985 (on leave 1985-1987).

Assistant Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Pennsylvania, 1979-1983.
Instructor, 1978-1979. TEACHING FIELDS Political philosophy, public policy, American government.

SELECTED ACADEMIC PUBLICATIONS Articles “Women’s Liberation: The Relevance of Tocqueville,” in Ken Masugi, ed., Alexis de Tocqueville Observes the New American Order (University Press of America, 1991). “The Problem of the Separation of Powers: Federalist 47-51,” in Charles R. Kesler, ed., Saving the Revolution: The Federalist Papers and the American Founding (The Free Press, 1987). “The Friends and Enemies of Democratic Capitalism,” in Fred E. Baumann, ed., Democratic Capitalism? (University Press of Virginia, 1986). “Liberty, Equality, Honor,” Social Philosophy and Policy, vol. 2, no. 1, Autumn, 1984. Review Essays “The Heavenly City of Post-Constitutional Theory,” The University of Chicago Law Review, vol. 51, no. 1, Winter 1984. “On the Neoliberal Frontier,” Regulation, May/June 1983. “Conservative Statecraft,” The Public Interest, no. 73, Fall 1983. “Defending Democratic Capitalism,” The Public Interest, no. 68, Summer 1982. “Constitutional Law Today,” The Public Interest, no. 62, Winter 1981. “Speaking Intelligently About Policy Analysis,” The Public Interest, no. 59, Spring 1980. Co-Authored Book The War Over Iraq: Saddam's Tyranny and America's Mission (Encounter Books, 2003), By Lawrence F. Kaplan and William Kristol. Co-Edited Books The Future is Now: America Confronts the New Genetics (Rowman & Littlefield, 2002), edited by William Kristol and Eric Cohen. Bush v. Gore: The Court Cases and the Commentary (Brookings Institution Press, 2001), edited by E. J. Dionne, Jr. and William Kristol. Present Dangers: Crisis and Opportunity in American Foreign and Defense Policy (Encounter Books, 2000), edited by Robert Kagan and William Kristol. Educating the Prince: Essays in Honor of Harvey Mansfield, (Rowman & Littlefield, 2000), edited by Mark Blitz and William Kristol. The Neoconservative Imagination: Essays in Honor of Irving Kristol (The AEI Press, 1995), edited by Christopher DeMuth and William Kristol.
 
You probably should defer to William Kristol's knowledge of politics and history - he is an old time conservative with quite the bonafides.

Curriculum Vitae

WILLIAM KRISTOL

EDUCATION

Ph.D., Harvard University, in political science, 1979. A.B., Harvard University, magna cum laude in government, 1973.

EMPLOYMENT Editor, The Weekly Standard, June 1995-present.

Visiting Lecturer, Government Department, Harvard, Spring Semester 2003, Academic Year 2005-2006, Spring Semester 2007 and 2008.

Chairman, Project for the Republican Future, November 1993-May 1995. Director, The Bradley Project on the 90s, The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, JanuaryNovember 1993.

Chief of Staff to the Vice President, The White House, May 1989-January 1993; Assistant to the Vice President for Domestic Policy, January 1989-May 1989. Chief of Staff and Counselor to the Secretary, U.S. Department of Education, December 1985July 1988.

Special Assistant to the Secretary, July 1985-December 1985. Assistant Professor of Public Policy, Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, 19831985 (on leave 1985-1987).

Assistant Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Pennsylvania, 1979-1983.
Instructor, 1978-1979. TEACHING FIELDS Political philosophy, public policy, American government.

SELECTED ACADEMIC PUBLICATIONS Articles “Women’s Liberation: The Relevance of Tocqueville,” in Ken Masugi, ed., Alexis de Tocqueville Observes the New American Order (University Press of America, 1991). “The Problem of the Separation of Powers: Federalist 47-51,” in Charles R. Kesler, ed., Saving the Revolution: The Federalist Papers and the American Founding (The Free Press, 1987). “The Friends and Enemies of Democratic Capitalism,” in Fred E. Baumann, ed., Democratic Capitalism? (University Press of Virginia, 1986). “Liberty, Equality, Honor,” Social Philosophy and Policy, vol. 2, no. 1, Autumn, 1984. Review Essays “The Heavenly City of Post-Constitutional Theory,” The University of Chicago Law Review, vol. 51, no. 1, Winter 1984. “On the Neoliberal Frontier,” Regulation, May/June 1983. “Conservative Statecraft,” The Public Interest, no. 73, Fall 1983. “Defending Democratic Capitalism,” The Public Interest, no. 68, Summer 1982. “Constitutional Law Today,” The Public Interest, no. 62, Winter 1981. “Speaking Intelligently About Policy Analysis,” The Public Interest, no. 59, Spring 1980. Co-Authored Book The War Over Iraq: Saddam's Tyranny and America's Mission (Encounter Books, 2003), By Lawrence F. Kaplan and William Kristol. Co-Edited Books The Future is Now: America Confronts the New Genetics (Rowman & Littlefield, 2002), edited by William Kristol and Eric Cohen. Bush v. Gore: The Court Cases and the Commentary (Brookings Institution Press, 2001), edited by E. J. Dionne, Jr. and William Kristol. Present Dangers: Crisis and Opportunity in American Foreign and Defense Policy (Encounter Books, 2000), edited by Robert Kagan and William Kristol. Educating the Prince: Essays in Honor of Harvey Mansfield, (Rowman & Littlefield, 2000), edited by Mark Blitz and William Kristol. The Neoconservative Imagination: Essays in Honor of Irving Kristol (The AEI Press, 1995), edited by Christopher DeMuth and William Kristol.

Reads like a RINO! or you know, an actual conservative intellectual that used to command respect in the Republican party before the Trump takeover and the cult was formed.
 
This whole trans movement is going to be more impactful than the gay movement based solely on the fact that without it, Musk never goes hard right and stays out of the political forefront.

Something something laws and something something unintended consequences
 
1. WDT's comment re: the hitler stalin pivot was actually my first thought too.
2. Kristol is a smart guy, but let's face it, for better and worse, he's jumped the shark. And anyway, i'm always a little circumspect about kowtowing to 'intellectuals.' Indeed, while we're on the subject of Soviets, to quote my political philosophy/marxist thought professor George Friedman, "Trotsky had some interesting ideas. But Stalin...ah, Stalin...he had an icepick."
3. As i said in the other thread, go figure, our legislature is not as monolithic as this board led me to believe.
 
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Reads like a RINO! or you know, an actual conservative intellectual that used to command respect in the Republican party before the Trump takeover and the cult was formed.
As we can easily see, just by reading posts of trump/musk supporters, they are obviously now the party of stupid. It's actually kind of funny to watch them try to out dumb each other.
 

Puppet President

by William Kristol

At midday yesterday, as debate raged about continuing resolutions and debt limits and a government shutdown, President-elect Donald Trump’s incoming White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, put out a statement.

Her important but unnamed topic: Elon Musk.

For the preceding twenty-four hours, Musk had been at the center of the Republican universe. It was he who was getting the credit, the blame, and above all the attention for his decisive role in killing the continuing resolution negotiated by Speaker Mike Johnson. Trump, by contrast, had praised Johnson earlier in the week, and had been relatively silent as Musk wreaked his havoc. Trump only weighed in against the CR after the deed was done.

It seemed, as Nick Catoggio of the Dispatch put it, to be “the first time since Trump took over the party that some other populist has managed to impose his will on it.”

That perception couldn’t be allowed to stand, so Leavitt hurried to set the record straight. “As soon as President Trump released his official stance on the CR, Republicans on Capitol Hill echoed his point of view. President Trump is the leader of the Republican Party. Full stop.”

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

And in her protest I spy a ray of hope.

As Catoggio writes, what’s striking is that Musk’s incitement of a grassroots rebellion against the CR “succeeded so spectacularly that even Donald Trump was caught off-guard.” Furthermore, “the obsequiousness that some members of Congress showed Musk as he pushed them around was also striking, as that sort of thing is typically reserved for the cult leader.”

Catoggio sums up the implication of what we all saw:


This thought has undoubtedly occurred to Trump. And Musk is undoubtedly aware Trump’s had this thought. That’s why Musk hastened to post, “First of all, I’m not the author of this proposal. Credit to @realDonaldTrump, @JDVance & @SpeakerJohnson.” It’s why, overnight, Musk posted again, accusing Trump’s critics of trying to drive a wedge between him and the president-elect by giving him the title “President Musk.”

The man doth protest too unconvincingly.

So what lies ahead on this front? Can Musk co-exist with Trump? Does Trump try to clip Musk’s wings? Does Musk try to edge Trump aside even as Trump has the Oval Office? Can he? Out in the country, could DOGE gradually replace MAGA as the ascendant authoritarian movement?

Could Musk run, as a Republican or as an independent, for president in 2028? He’s not a natural-born citizen. But why would he and his supporters let a phrase in a centuries-old document stand in his way? The will of the people is what matters. As Musk has tweeted more than once, Vox populi = Vox dei.

Trump seems, judging from his 3:00 am tweets, to be staying awake nights. He should be. It’s his movement. Or, at least, it has been his movement. He’s Lenin. But Stalin loiters in the wings.
This is pretty damn rich coming from the party that:

A. Stole the 2020 presidential election
B. Stole the 2024 presidential nomination
C. Stole numerous house elections in 2024
 
You probably should defer to William Kristol's knowledge of politics and history - he is an old time conservative with quite the bonafides.

Curriculum Vitae

WILLIAM KRISTOL

EDUCATION

Ph.D., Harvard University, in political science, 1979. A.B., Harvard University, magna cum laude in government, 1973.

EMPLOYMENT Editor, The Weekly Standard, June 1995-present.

Visiting Lecturer, Government Department, Harvard, Spring Semester 2003, Academic Year 2005-2006, Spring Semester 2007 and 2008.

Chairman, Project for the Republican Future, November 1993-May 1995. Director, The Bradley Project on the 90s, The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, JanuaryNovember 1993.

Chief of Staff to the Vice President, The White House, May 1989-January 1993; Assistant to the Vice President for Domestic Policy, January 1989-May 1989. Chief of Staff and Counselor to the Secretary, U.S. Department of Education, December 1985July 1988.

Special Assistant to the Secretary, July 1985-December 1985. Assistant Professor of Public Policy, Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, 19831985 (on leave 1985-1987).

Assistant Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Pennsylvania, 1979-1983.
Instructor, 1978-1979. TEACHING FIELDS Political philosophy, public policy, American government.

SELECTED ACADEMIC PUBLICATIONS Articles “Women’s Liberation: The Relevance of Tocqueville,” in Ken Masugi, ed., Alexis de Tocqueville Observes the New American Order (University Press of America, 1991). “The Problem of the Separation of Powers: Federalist 47-51,” in Charles R. Kesler, ed., Saving the Revolution: The Federalist Papers and the American Founding (The Free Press, 1987). “The Friends and Enemies of Democratic Capitalism,” in Fred E. Baumann, ed., Democratic Capitalism? (University Press of Virginia, 1986). “Liberty, Equality, Honor,” Social Philosophy and Policy, vol. 2, no. 1, Autumn, 1984. Review Essays “The Heavenly City of Post-Constitutional Theory,” The University of Chicago Law Review, vol. 51, no. 1, Winter 1984. “On the Neoliberal Frontier,” Regulation, May/June 1983. “Conservative Statecraft,” The Public Interest, no. 73, Fall 1983. “Defending Democratic Capitalism,” The Public Interest, no. 68, Summer 1982. “Constitutional Law Today,” The Public Interest, no. 62, Winter 1981. “Speaking Intelligently About Policy Analysis,” The Public Interest, no. 59, Spring 1980. Co-Authored Book The War Over Iraq: Saddam's Tyranny and America's Mission (Encounter Books, 2003), By Lawrence F. Kaplan and William Kristol. Co-Edited Books The Future is Now: America Confronts the New Genetics (Rowman & Littlefield, 2002), edited by William Kristol and Eric Cohen. Bush v. Gore: The Court Cases and the Commentary (Brookings Institution Press, 2001), edited by E. J. Dionne, Jr. and William Kristol. Present Dangers: Crisis and Opportunity in American Foreign and Defense Policy (Encounter Books, 2000), edited by Robert Kagan and William Kristol. Educating the Prince: Essays in Honor of Harvey Mansfield, (Rowman & Littlefield, 2000), edited by Mark Blitz and William Kristol. The Neoconservative Imagination: Essays in Honor of Irving Kristol (The AEI Press, 1995), edited by Christopher DeMuth and William Kristol.
Dude is a real bookworm, huh?
 
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1. WDT's comment re: the hitler stalin pivot was actually my first thought too.
2. Kristol is a smart guy, but let's face it, for better and worse, he's jumped the shark. And anyway, i'm always a little circumspect about kowtowing to 'intellectuals.' Indeed, while we're on the subject of Soviets, to quote my political philosophy/marxist thought professor George Friedman, "Trotsky had some interesting ideas. But Stalin...ah, Stalin...he had an icepick."
3. As i said in the other thread, go figure, our legislature is not as monolithic as this board led me to believe.
Never really got the Hitler comparisons. Mussolini is always the comp. The weak strong man wannabe.
 
Kristol is nothing but a light-in-the-loafers version of Dick Cheney. Warmongering, lying scumbag and neocon hypocrite.

But the libs love his sorry ass now, and it says a lot more about them than it does about Wee Willy Kristol. 🤡

Bill Kristol, one of the vanguards of the Right’s faux-intelligentsia, is now a vaunted Never-Trumper. All the strategists and consultants who gave us decades of some of the most misogynistic and racist advertisements imaginable, who ushered Sarah Palin and the new Know-Nothings into the spotlight, are now heroes of the “Resistance” and probably sleep on mountains of liberal donations every night.

All of it is sickening. In a world that made sense, Bush and Cheney would be following American politics from a cell in the Hague. The people who helped them and who guided the GOP along its trajectory would be isolated from power and influence and treated like pariahs. Instead, the Overton Window has shifted. And now the Democratic Party spans the ideological spectrum from Bernie Sanders to the Neoconservative Right.

It would be one thing if they were just commentators and influencers, but Neoconservatism has seeped into the party as well. Watching the Democratic National Convention, you couldn’t help but notice that the rhetorical tropes of freedom and strength dominated the discourse. Support for Israel’s ongoing brutalities in Gaza was seen across the board. And Harris herself punctuated her acceptance by promising to maintain “the most lethal fighting force” on the face of the Earth, a phrase most often used by Pentagon officials. The idea that America is some special nation with a special destiny and a war machine to change the world was inescapable.


 
Yeah - why listen to someone who has studied a subject when you can turn to someone with uninformed feelings about it instead. :rolleyes:
FWIW, I was a soviet studies major, who studied in soviet moscow, before i went to law school. As i said, kristol's a bright guy, but he's sort of like a nobel laureate in that at some point he let people convince him that he knows everything about everything.
 
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Never really got the Hitler comparisons. Mussolini is always the comp. The weak strong man wannabe.
hadn't thought about that but well said. the thing about hitler and stalin is that they were psychopathic murderers. Mussolini, at the least, a little less so.
 
You probably should defer to William Kristol's knowledge of politics and history - he is a neoconservative old time conservative with quite the bonafides.

FTFY

Agree with him that the Iraq war was a good idea?

He hates Trump because Trump mocked the stupid wars he lobbied for from the safety of his ivory tower.
 
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We have moved past Hitler and gone to Stalin.........


I know you guys really want this Elon/Trump thing to be a thing, but Trump is an old dude who has been around dudes his whole life, he knows how to deal with "useful idiots" ( in the theme of the thread)

Trump is the useful idiot in his relationship with Musk.
 
This whole trans movement is going to be more impactful than the gay movement based solely on the fact that without it, Musk never goes hard right and stays out of the political forefront.

Something something laws and something something unintended consequences
Or, maybe if Musk wasn’t such a shitty father his reaction would’ve been to show love to his child instead of going on the warpath against whatever he thinks caused it.
 
Bill Kristol has lost the last little bit of remaining shit he was still carrying,.. Loon.
 
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Trump is not a longtime politician. Trump is not a DC insider. Trump is not a Tame Republican. Trump did not fit any pre-existing Republican pigeonhole category when he first ran.
That does not compute with Old Guard guys like Kristol.
 
Are there reasons to believe that's actually a fact?
He went off the rails and hard right after buying Twitter and seeing his daughter become estranged. He told Jordan Peterson on air that he was tricked into giving her gender affirming care.

He took a lot of risk going hardcore MAGA and basically running alongside Trump. I believe he is getting close to the government to further enrich himself, but I think the genesis for this is the fact that though the worlds richest man and a visionary of mankind, he found himself entangled in the American culture war.
 
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Trump is not a longtime politician. Trump is not a DC insider. Trump is not a Tame Republican. Trump did not fit any pre-existing Republican pigeonhole category when he first ran.
That does not compute with Old Guard guys like Kristol.
Yeah, most rational people would prefer a politician to an oft-bankrupted failed businessman talk show host rapist serial liar for president.
 
You probably should defer to William Kristol's knowledge of politics and history - he is an old time conservative with quite the bonafides.

Curriculum Vitae

WILLIAM KRISTOL

EDUCATION

Ph.D., Harvard University, in political science, 1979. A.B., Harvard University, magna cum laude in government, 1973.

EMPLOYMENT Editor, The Weekly Standard, June 1995-present.

Visiting Lecturer, Government Department, Harvard, Spring Semester 2003, Academic Year 2005-2006, Spring Semester 2007 and 2008.

Chairman, Project for the Republican Future, November 1993-May 1995. Director, The Bradley Project on the 90s, The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, JanuaryNovember 1993.

Chief of Staff to the Vice President, The White House, May 1989-January 1993; Assistant to the Vice President for Domestic Policy, January 1989-May 1989. Chief of Staff and Counselor to the Secretary, U.S. Department of Education, December 1985July 1988.

Special Assistant to the Secretary, July 1985-December 1985. Assistant Professor of Public Policy, Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, 19831985 (on leave 1985-1987).

Assistant Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Pennsylvania, 1979-1983.
Instructor, 1978-1979. TEACHING FIELDS Political philosophy, public policy, American government.

SELECTED ACADEMIC PUBLICATIONS Articles “Women’s Liberation: The Relevance of Tocqueville,” in Ken Masugi, ed., Alexis de Tocqueville Observes the New American Order (University Press of America, 1991). “The Problem of the Separation of Powers: Federalist 47-51,” in Charles R. Kesler, ed., Saving the Revolution: The Federalist Papers and the American Founding (The Free Press, 1987). “The Friends and Enemies of Democratic Capitalism,” in Fred E. Baumann, ed., Democratic Capitalism? (University Press of Virginia, 1986). “Liberty, Equality, Honor,” Social Philosophy and Policy, vol. 2, no. 1, Autumn, 1984. Review Essays “The Heavenly City of Post-Constitutional Theory,” The University of Chicago Law Review, vol. 51, no. 1, Winter 1984. “On the Neoliberal Frontier,” Regulation, May/June 1983. “Conservative Statecraft,” The Public Interest, no. 73, Fall 1983. “Defending Democratic Capitalism,” The Public Interest, no. 68, Summer 1982. “Constitutional Law Today,” The Public Interest, no. 62, Winter 1981. “Speaking Intelligently About Policy Analysis,” The Public Interest, no. 59, Spring 1980. Co-Authored Book The War Over Iraq: Saddam's Tyranny and America's Mission (Encounter Books, 2003), By Lawrence F. Kaplan and William Kristol. Co-Edited Books The Future is Now: America Confronts the New Genetics (Rowman & Littlefield, 2002), edited by William Kristol and Eric Cohen. Bush v. Gore: The Court Cases and the Commentary (Brookings Institution Press, 2001), edited by E. J. Dionne, Jr. and William Kristol. Present Dangers: Crisis and Opportunity in American Foreign and Defense Policy (Encounter Books, 2000), edited by Robert Kagan and William Kristol. Educating the Prince: Essays in Honor of Harvey Mansfield, (Rowman & Littlefield, 2000), edited by Mark Blitz and William Kristol. The Neoconservative Imagination: Essays in Honor of Irving Kristol (The AEI Press, 1995), edited by Christopher DeMuth and William Kristol.
Bill Kristol is just another caeeer DC swamp creature. He's made millions accomplishing nothing of value. The opinions of people like him mean nothing to 99.9% of Americans.
 
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I hate Trump and am very wary of musk, but anyone who refers to any modern American politician as Hitler or Stalin deserves to be ridiculed and ignored.
I more or less agree that the constant hyperbole to drive home a point only does a disservice to legitimate political discussion. This is especially true if the people you're discussing with have a completely different foundation of beliefs/reality. Even if there is evidence that Trump is a want of bee authoritarian it doesn't get us anywhere to liken him to such extremes
 
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