Height deficiencies next year

[LincolnHawkeye]

Looking at projected starting lineups for next year, it looks like pretty much all of our players will be between 6'5" and 6'8" (Not counting Bohannon). So is this what Fran's system is meant for? A bunch of middle sized players that are versatile and quick, generally good shooters who can run for days? I think it's a good thing that less athletic players, such as Gesell and Woodbury are gone, but I can't help think that losing a 7'1" player, while not having anyone taller than maybe 6'9" is gonna hurt us somehow in the post.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Height can be countered by length, strength, leaping ability, quickness.
I don't know that Cook will come in ready to go, but 6'8"+ and 240lb+ with what appears to be the strength and movement he demonstrates on video is not unusual for a 5 in today's game.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

I guess I look at it is, you can a 7-1 guy on your team but if he doesn't block any shots and has issues with having people tip the ball away from him on rebounds. Whats the point of having him.

You can have a 6-7 to 6-9 guy in the lane who can jump and block shots and get up for rebounds.

I would take the smaller the player, because they are able to alter shots and get up for the rebound. I agree we need some "meat" on our bones for next year. If they are all 6-5 to 6-8 they will need to bulk up and be strong.

 

[StormHawk42]

Size can be masked by other areas, notably athleticism and shooting. For further reference, see ISU.

 

[joemc2]

Height can be countered by length, strength, leaping ability, quickness.
I don't know that Cook will come in ready to go, but 6'8"+ and 240lb+ with what appears to be the strength and movement he demonstrates on video is not unusual for a 5 in today's game.

Height is overrated. Why did n't Iowa throw lobs to Woody- because a 6'7 or 6'8 guy could out jump him and steal it. Lots of teams in Sweet 16 don't have true big man, but their inside players are athletic, have some bulk and can jump.

 

[0418hawkguy1001]

would you rather have a team full of Woodbury's or a team full of Basabe's? I would rather have the length and athleticism of the Basabe's over the height and less athleticism of the Woodbury's. Keep in mind that Melsahn did eventually develop a nice little jumper and hopefully Wagner and Cook can do that to keep other teams honest on them.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Wagner is strong. I'd like to see him add more muscle and weight. A 235lb.+ Ahmad Wagner would be a force in the paint. I hope he loves the weight room!

 

[EZ2BJZ]

College basketball has evolved. Height is only an advantage if it is coupled with athleticism. So what everyone else is saying.

Also, athleticism was not Mike Gesell's problem.

 

[iowalawhawk]

Other than this year, Fran would always go small in crunch time, preferring some combination of White, Uthoff, McCabe, Basabe, etc to Uthoff or Olaseni. Part of that could be due to Woodbury's free throw shooting, but I think it's actually Fran's preference.

 

[cleotishaywood]

I guess I look at it is, you can a 7-1 guy on your team but if he doesn't block any shots and has issues with having people tip the ball away from him on rebounds. Whats the point of having him.

You can have a 6-7 to 6-9 guy in the lane who can jump and block shots and get up for rebounds.

I would take the smaller the player, because they are able to alter shots and get up for the rebound. I agree we need some "meat" on our bones for next year. If they are all 6-5 to 6-8 they will need to bulk up and be strong.

Reggie Evans is 6'-8" and Greg Brunner was 6'-5" and both were rebounding monsters. Strength and positioning are also keys to efficient rebounding.

 

[mtdew_fever]

I'd agree. There just aren't that many quality 6'10"-7' guys out there. A team can be very successful if they have a few talented 6'7" guys that can play/guard multiple positions in their lineup instead of a 6'10" guy filling up space.

While they didn't do much this year in the NCAA tournament this year, Baylor is a good example of a team that didn't have any 6'10" guys, but had height at nearly every position on the floor (excluding PG).

Height can be countered by length, strength, leaping ability, quickness.
I don't know that Cook will come in ready to go, but 6'8"+ and 240lb+ with what appears to be the strength and movement he demonstrates on video is not unusual for a 5 in today's game.

 

[Kurt Warner]

A 7'1 guy that misses tons of bunnies isn't really a good thing either.

 

[nu2u]

Rebounding is more about technique and effort than height.

Also, good rebounders have a certain instinct you can't teach....I'm thinking of Settles, Bruner, Bowen - guys like that. I would put Baer in that category.

We'll be OK. Besides, the Iowa coaches teach the strategic "shove" technique, a great equalizer when all else fails.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Reggie Evans is 6'-8" and Greg Brunner was 6'-5" and both were rebounding monsters. Strength and positioning are also keys to efficient rebounding.

That is THE key and Iowa is terrible in both areas

 

[Suterman]

People need to stop saying that Mike Gesell is not athletic.

 

[TJHawkeye]

Adam was 7'1", but has T rex arms and no jumping ability. He had a lot of heart desire and toughness, but a 6'8" player with long arms and jumping ability will work just fine. I'm MUCH more worried about our deficiency at point guard. We have no one with true PG quickness and handles.
Williams and Bohannon don't have it. Fleming doesn't have it. We're in trouble there.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

We will actually be quite a bit taller next year vs this year. We will replace two 6'1" guys with two 6'6" guys that are long. Williams has a 7' wingspan. That is significant gain overall. Plus we have three guys coming in that are over 240lbs. Muscle in the middle that we have not had in years. I am not worried.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

People need to stop saying that Mike Gesell is not athletic.

He was avg athletically, but a below avg skill set is what was his biggest problem.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

He was avg athletically, but a below avg skill set is what was his biggest problem.

How is he average athletically? How many 6'1 point guards do you know who can throw it down like he can? He's also quick and a good defender.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Adam was 7'1", but has T rex arms and no jumping ability. He had a lot of heart desire and toughness, but a 6'8" player with long arms and jumping ability will work just fine. I'm MUCH more worried about our deficiency at point guard. We have no one with true PG quickness and handles.
Williams and Bohannon don't have it. Fleming doesn't have it. We're in trouble there.

Yep, PG is the single biggest weak spot for next years. I'm not sure guard play in general, but definitely PG. We've watched 6 years of Fran teams not have a PG who had the quickness to be able to beat anyone off the dribbles, inadequate handles,

 

[HawkCapt1912]

Looking at projected starting lineups for next year, it looks like pretty much all of our players will be between 6'5" and 6'8" (Not counting Bohannon). So is this what Fran's system is meant for? A bunch of middle sized players that are versatile and quick, generally good shooters who can run for days? I think it's a good thing that less athletic players, such as Gesell and Woodbury are gone, but I can't help think that losing a 7'1" player, while not having anyone taller than maybe 6'9" is gonna hurt us somehow in the post.

Looks a little like Doc Tom's 3 headed monster team. Bunch of guys 6'5" - 6'8" with a 6'+ pt guard. Similar results would be awesome.

 

[And1Hawk]

How is he average athletically? How many 6'1 point guards do you know who can throw it down like he can? He's also quick and a good defender.

The odd part is I agree that MG is athletic and can leap. He seemed to be a good defender yet better guards were constantly getting into the lane or were wide open from distance. So what was the reason for that?

 

[EZ2BJZ]

The odd part is I agree that MG is athletic and can leap. He seemed to be a good defender yet better guards were constantly getting into the lane or were wide open from distance. So what was the reason for that?

Iowa's defensive strategy over the last month and a half has been a mystery to many. I have no answer for you, but don't believe Gesell was the only Hawkeye with a defensive deficiency during that stretch.

 

[RocknRollface]

I'd agree. There just aren't that many quality 6'10"-7' guys out there. A team can be very successful if they have a few talented 6'7" guys that can play/guard multiple positions in their lineup instead of a 6'10" guy filling up space.

While they didn't do much this year in the NCAA tournament this year, Baylor is a good example of a team that didn't have any 6'10" guys, but had height at nearly every position on the floor (excluding PG).

True, but most of the teams left playing have them. UNC has a bunch.

Im not saying Iowa can't compete with athletic guys in the 6'7 6'9 range though. Id rather have them than guys with short arms who cant jump.

White and Uthoff were only average jumpers but were able to do allot with their long arms.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

True, but most of the teams left playing have them. UNC has a bunch.

Im not saying Iowa can't compete with athletic guys in the 6'7 6'9 range though. Id rather have them than guys with short arms who cant jump.

White and Uthoff were only average jumpers but were able to do allot with their long arms.

White was an "average" jumper? Strongly disagree.

 

[RocknRollface]

Iowa's defensive strategy over the last month and a half has been a mystery to many. I have no answer for you, but don't believe Gesell was the only Hawkeye with a defensive deficiency during that stretch.

Mike was capable of playing very good D. He shut down Yogi Ferrel for a big stretch in the second half in IC, and thats hard to do.

Ill bet if you put MG through a set of NFL combine style drills to measure athleticism he would rate towards the top of D1 PGs.

He was pg sized but really nothing about his game was natural pg. He wanted to pass right away or get to the rim as quick as possible. A good pg needs to be able to weave in and out of the lane force the D to move.

 

[RocknRollface]

White was an "average" jumper? Strongly disagree.

He was better than Uthoff I guess.

If I remember his vertical when measured wasn't all that impressive.

If White had the same wingspan proportionately that Woodbury did he would not have been nearly as effective.

Did some searching.
Average vertical leap of an ncaa basketball player is 27-30 inches.

Whites measured at 30 inches.

Sounds about right, long arms help allot.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

He was better than Uthoff I guess.

If I remember his vertical when measured wasn't all that impressive.

If White had the same wingspan proportionately that Woodbury did he would not have been nearly as effective.

Did some searching.
Average vertical leap of an ncaa basketball player is 27-30 inches.

Whites measured at 30 inches.

Sounds about right, long arms help allot.

But he was a quick jumper. And that's the key. For example, if he got the ball under the basket he was quick off the floor before anyone had a chance to block him.

 

[LincolnHawkeye]

The odd part is I agree that MG is athletic and can leap. He seemed to be a good defender yet better guards were constantly getting into the lane or were wide open from distance. So what was the reason for that?

He may have been fairly athletic, but he was a below average shooter and couldn't finish at the rim.

 

[SSG T]

I'd question the basketball knowledge of anyone who thinks Mike's problems were athleticism or skill based. They weren't. He had the quickness and handles to beat even quick guards off the bounce. Reading the help defense and getting rid of the ball at the right time and to the right person were definitely issues at times.

 

[Mohawkeye]

The teams that gave us the most trouble this year had 6'8" guys with some bulk and length. Cook, Pemsyl and Kreiner all fit that mold, 6'8" or taller and 240 pounds or more. Uhl should be 235 by next year, and Wagner is one of those rare guys that can defend bigger due to his extreme athleticism. I was a huge fan of Woody, but I really look forward to a new brand of interior basketball that is athletic, long and strong.

 

[dbleagle1]

Think Ed Horton/Kent Hill.......

 

[cleotishaywood]

Mike was capable of playing very good D. He shut down Yogi Ferrel for a big stretch in the second half in IC, and thats hard to do.

Ill bet if you put MG through a set of NFL combine style drills to measure athleticism he would rate towards the top of D1 PGs.

He was pg sized but really nothing about his game was natural pg. He wanted to pass right away or get to the rim as quick as possible. A good pg needs to be able to weave in and out of the lane force the D to move.

What is puzzling is the way Mike G's shooting seemed to regress during his career. By the time he played his last game, you kinda hoped he wouldn't be the one they put at the line in close situations.
He seemed to have to reinvent his shooting form which was noticeable from last season. It looked like he had lost confidence in his shot and it showed just by how uncomfortbable he looked while shooting free throws.
Mike played with heart and had some good moments in his career. Was the motor that put things in motion.

 

[Pro14]

He was better than Uthoff I guess.

If I remember his vertical when measured wasn't all that impressive.

If White had the same wingspan proportionately that Woodbury did he would not have been nearly as effective.

Did some searching.
Average vertical leap of an ncaa basketball player is 27-30 inches.

Whites measured at 30 inches.

Sounds about right, long arms help allot.

For his draft measurements his no step vertical was 30 inches his max vertical was 35 inches which is very good for a player his size for reference blake griffin's max vert is 35.5

 

[PhantomFlyer]

I'd question the basketball knowledge of anyone who thinks Mike's problems were athleticism or skill based. They weren't. He had the quickness and handles to beat even quick guards off the bounce. Reading the help defense and getting rid of the ball at the right time and to the right person were definitely issues at times.

I'd question the basketball IQ of anyone who think Mike's problems weren't skill based. He had very avg handles for a PG. A good passer, but avg handles. He also didn't have the quickness to beat most guards off the dribble, which is why you saw him do very little of it outside of non-conference games. Shooting is a skill, MG was a terrible shooter. Ball handling is a skill. MG was avg, at best. Part of the reason MG struggled at the end of games is defenders would ratchet up their defense and get more aggressive/physical and this gave Gesell a devil of a time because he didn't have great handles. It's also why MG would pass the ball so quickly if a defender got in his shorts on D. Good PG's would drive past their defender, but MG didn't have the quickness/handles to do this effectively so it was a quick pass to AC or someone else out on the wings.

MG had avg athleticism for a PG, and slightly below avg skills. He was a good passer, decent defensive player, terrible shooter, avg quickness and handles. When you sum it all together you get a very avg B1G PG. Offensively challenged but did a decent job running the offense and playing defense.

BTW, I'd also consider "reading the help defense..." also a skill. And as you said, he did a poor job of it.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

The teams that gave us the most trouble this year had 6'8" guys with some bulk and length. Cook, Pemsyl and Kreiner all fit that mold, 6'8" or taller and 240 pounds or more. Uhl should be 235 by next year, and Wagner is one of those rare guys that can defend bigger due to his extreme athleticism. I was a huge fan of Woody, but I really look forward to a new brand of interior basketball that is athletic, long and strong.

Wagner got eaten up by taller guys. IMO he's too small to see major minutes. Maybe this could be offset if he's playing beside a big body underneath. Some added strength and a little more weight would also help.

 

[SoCalFan]

Looking at projected starting lineups for next year, it looks like pretty much all of our players will be between 6'5" and 6'8" (Not counting Bohannon). So is this what Fran's system is meant for? A bunch of middle sized players that are versatile and quick, generally good shooters who can run for days? I think it's a good thing that less athletic players, such as Gesell and Woodbury are gone, but I can't help think that losing a 7'1" player, while not having anyone taller than maybe 6'9" is gonna hurt us somehow in the post.

It seems to work pretty well for the Golden State Warriors...but then again, they have S. Curry.

 

[RocknRollface]

For his draft measurements his no step vertical was 30 inches his max vertical was 35 inches which is very good for a player his size for reference blake griffin's max vert is 35.5

The no step is the standard as far as I know.

They may have somehow been measured close but seriously, there's no way Aaron Whites vertical is the same as Blake Griffins.

 

[HawkeyeDenny]

Gesell can outjump our 7' 1" guy....height is over rated..!! It's just like OL weight means nothing without foot speed...

 

[hawklandish]

Kinda reminds me of some of the Denny Crum Louisville teams. Seems like his whole team was between 6-4 and 6-9. They did OK