Here's the thing about guns....

[hawkifann]

The problem is more than just guns for sure. I think though in terms of gun control though, mitigations could begin to pay off pretty soon, and the benefits will increase over time—beyond our lifetimes. I think magazine capacity restrictions would be a good starting point for gun control.

The cultural and mental health issues are perhaps more intractable than the hundreds of millions of guns. Let’s start chipping away at all sides of this problem. Personally I think we have a disgusting culture that glorifies selfishness, violence and war—not sure what to do about it. I found it a bit absurd that a coach of a popular bball team called the WARRIORS was speaking out against violence, but I find a lot of things absurd that others take for granted.

Guns don’t need to be banned. Most gun owners follow safety protocols, understand the danger their weapon poses and take precautions. What we need to do is stop allowing gun manufacturers to crack back on regs to maximize sales. If we can make background checks required for all transactions with consistent enforcement and draconian punishment for those caught bypassing, plus red-flag laws to do our best to ensure that those who shouldn’t have them don’t get then, we’d go along way. I’d also add gun safety/training requirements to gun ownership and serious penalties for those who mis-handle their weapons. This would cut away a lot of the danger in the fringes.

 

[Torg]

You’re one of the few that get it. The problem is with those that have evil inside them and will conduct these acts regardless of gun laws. They will get the job done.
No I’m not against trying things to reduce the issue, but those with evil will still prevail.

Some of the evil ones are making a killing off selling the guns. Then they use some of their gross profits to buy politicians to protect them and their profits and not little kids in school.

No one should be allowed to own weapons of war. Many of the people who purchase these weapons of war want to use them to destroy our country. They have been hoping for open rebellion for years.

 

[JupiterHawk]

You could completely ban all gun sales right now and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. There are guns everywhere in America. If the drug war taught us anything, it's that people are going get what they want to get, and banning stuff just makes people want that forbidden thing even more.

Making guns harder to acquire isn't going to do squat. We need to figure out WHY our culture is so obsessed with shooting people.

Honest question - Do you think these sickly looking kids would be in the hood buying their guns off the street? And these are some of the worst ever. Turning 18 and being able to buy an AR off the internet is NOT the answer.

 

[Hawkman98]

We can easily implement 1990s bans again and raise the age of purchase of an AR-15 and it would already make a difference. The USA is a worldwide embarrassment.

Then they will use handguns or shotguns. Or they’ll just steal a ar-15 and use that. Gun laws are mostly for those that abide by the laws. Criminals or people ready to become criminals don’t care about laws.

 

[Hawkman98]

Some of the evil ones are making a killing off selling the guns. Then they use some of their gross profits to buy politicians to protect them and their profits and not little kids in school.

No one should be allowed to own weapons of war. Many of the people who purchase these weapons of war want to use them to destroy our country. They have been hoping for open rebellion for years.

Any weapon can be described as a weapon of war.

 

[Hawkman98]

Honest question - Do you think these sickly looking kids would be in the hood buying their guns off the street? And these are some of the worst ever. Turning 18 and being able to buy an AR off the internet is NOT the answer.

Do you think they wouldn’t get their guns illegally if they didn’t purchase them legally? I’m ok raising the limits to 21 as long as you can’t enlist in the military until age 21 as well.

 

[JupiterHawk]

Do you think they wouldn’t get their guns illegally if they didn’t purchase them legally? I’m ok raising the limits to 21 as long as you can’t enlist in the military until age 21 as well.

Hell no. Look at them. And make it a severe penalty if your gun is found in a murder. If you want to sell your AR on the black market, fine. But you are taking a helluva risk if that is used in a crime.

 

[JupiterHawk]

Any weapon can be described as a weapon of war.

Would you rather your liver have a laceration or look like melon smashed by a sledgehammer? It matters.

In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.

I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?

 

[RileyHawk]

You’re one of the few that get it. The problem is with those that have evil inside them and will conduct these acts regardless of gun laws. They will get the job done.
No I’m not against trying things to reduce the issue, but those with evil will still prevail.

So let's make it as easy as possible for them to do evil? C'mon Man!

 

[RileyHawk]

Evil will exist no matter what you do. Take all the guns in the US away there will still be mass killings. No one is stopping someone who wants to complete a killing.

Do you have any interest in measures that will reduce mass killings? Or gun deaths overall? Or are you so invested in the status quo that no measure is worth considering?

 

[Hawkman98]

So let's make it as easy as possible for them to do evil? C'mon Man!

Who said that? If you’d look at my previous post you’ll see I’m in favor of most gun restriction suggestions. My point was if someone wants to kill multiple people they will get it done regardless of new gun regulations and you’re gullible if you don’t think that’s the truth

 

[soybean]

You could completely ban all gun sales right now and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. There are guns everywhere in America. If the drug war taught us anything, it's that people are going get what they want to get, and banning stuff just makes people want that forbidden thing even more.

Making guns harder to acquire isn't going to do squat. We need to figure out WHY our culture is so obsessed with shooting people.

So, nothing can be done?

 

[RileyHawk]

Who said that? If you’d look at my previous post you’ll see I’m in favor of most gun restriction suggestions. My point was if someone wants to kill multiple people they will get it done regardless of new gun regulations and you’re gullible if you don’t think that’s the truth

That simply doesn't make sense. Why would you support more gun control if you don't think it will have a positive effect?

Fact is, many of these are snap decisions that could/would change if access to the weapons were not so easy.

 

[Huey Grey]

You could completely ban all gun sales right now and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. There are guns everywhere in America. If the drug war taught us anything, it's that people are going get what they want to get, and banning stuff just makes people want that forbidden thing even more.

Making guns harder to acquire isn't going to do squat. We need to figure out WHY our culture is so obsessed with shooting people.

The guy who just killed people at the healthcare center bought his gun just hours before his spree.

 

[Hawkman98]

That simply doesn't make sense. Why would you support more gun control if you don't think it will have a positive effect?

Fact is, many of these are snap decisions that could/would change if access to the weapons were not so easy.

It doesn’t make sense to you because you have no experience (assumption on my part) dealing with these people. Spend hours interviewing these people and maybe you’d start to understand the way these people think and why gun restrictions won’t solve the problem. I’m for some restrictions because we have to do something and if it prevents one mass shooting it’s worth it. However, those that are evil will accomplish their task at any cost. If they can’t buy it legally, they’ll buy it illegally.

 

[Hawkman98]

The guy who just killed people at the healthcare center bought his gun just hours before his spree.

If there was a 3 day wait do you think he wouldn’t have done it at a later time? If guns are banned he would just get one illegally.

 

[Huey Grey]

It doesn’t make sense to you because you have no experience (assumption on my part) dealing with these people. Spend hours interviewing these people and maybe you’d start to understand the way these people think and why gun restrictions won’t solve the problem. I’m for some restrictions because we have to do something and if it prevents one mass shooting it’s worth it. However, those that are evil will accomplish their task at any cost. If they can’t buy it legally, they’ll buy it illegally.

Good point. However the vast majority do buy legally which must be addressed.

 

[markfromj]

You could completely ban all gun sales right now and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

I disagree. Improvement is always on the margin. Someone someday would NOT be murdered by the gun that isn’t sold told.

But a ban on new sales would indeed be only one of many steps.

 

[RileyHawk]

It doesn’t make sense to you because you have no experience (assumption on my part) dealing with these people. Spend hours interviewing these people and maybe you’d start to understand the way these people think and why gun restrictions won’t solve the problem. I’m for some restrictions because we have to do something and if it prevents one mass shooting it’s worth it. However, those that are evil will accomplish their task at any cost. If they can’t buy it legally, they’ll buy it illegally.

What restrictions are you for? And why will that potentially prevent even one mass shooting if these evil people are unstoppable?

 

[Huey Grey]

If there was a 3 day wait do you think he wouldn’t have done it at a later time? If guns are banned he would just get one illegally.

Wait? Why not ban? If ARs are so easy a massive shooter can buy one on his way to the shooting, we have a problem.

 

[RileyHawk]

If there was a 3 day wait do you think he wouldn’t have done it at a later time? If guns are banned he would just get one illegally.

Where? I hear this excuse often and I don't buy it. Part of human nature is path of least resistance. I'm pissed and know I can buy a gun at the corner store - I can do that without thinking very much. But if I can't buy one easily I have to think a whole lot more and put in a lot more effort. Those things are deterrents - maybe not enough to stop it. But maybe so.

 

[SoProudNole]

Evil will exist no matter what you do. Take all the guns in the US away there will still be mass killings. No one is stopping someone who wants to complete a killing.

This debate isn't about bringing mass killings to zero. No one is making that argument and I don't know of anyone who thinks it's possible.

The point is to reduce as much as possible the number and scope of killings.

And you can be guaranteed that, as you posted, "taking all the guns in the US away" will absolutely achieve that.

 

[Hawkman98]

Good point. However the vast majority do buy legally which must be addressed.

But once they can’t they will buy illegally. Just like drugs.

 

[RileyHawk]

But once they can’t they will buy illegally. Just like drugs.

Every one of them? Everyone who can't buy a gun legally will go to the illegal market? Really?

 

[Hawkman98]

What restrictions are you for? And why will that potentially prevent even one mass shooting if these evil people are unstoppable?

The restrictions can’t hurt right? Something needs to change. I said IF it prevents one it’s worth it. No one knows for sure what will or won’t. If people claim they know it will prevent a mass shooting, they’re full of shit.

 

[Hawkman98]

Wait? Why not ban? If ARs are so easy a massive shooter can buy one on his way to the shooting, we have a problem.

Ban every ar that’s sitting on the shelf right now and the shooter will steal one or buy one illegally.

 

[Hawkman98]

Every one of them? Everyone who can't buy a gun legally will go to the illegal market? Really?

If they want to accomplish their mission yes. They’re plenty of guns out there and once there is a ban people will sell in the black market and make a killing.

 

[Hawkman98]

This debate isn't about bringing mass killings to zero. No one is making that argument and I don't know of anyone who thinks it's possible.

The point is to reduce as much as possible the number and scope of killings.

And you can be guaranteed that, as you posted, "taking all the guns in the US away" will absolutely achieve that.

I get that and that’s why I’m saying we have to try something. However, if you take all the guns away, they’ll find another way. They will do bombings or just go to a crowded area and run everyone over. Sound familiar?

 

[JupiterHawk]

But once they can’t they will buy illegally. Just like drugs.

I disagree with that, especially with these 18-year-old kids who are bullied.

Selling drugs illegally is not the same as selling guns. Guns are not as easy to conceal and can't be sold on a street corner with a hand-to-hand transaction. Plus the cost of an illegal gun will be at least four times the retail value you see today. And the penalty of being caught selling illegal guns that are used in murder should be extreme.

 

[Hawkman98]

I disagree with that, especially with these 18-year-old kids who are bullied.

Selling drugs illegally is not the same as selling guns. Guns are not as easy to conceal and can't be sold on a street corner with a hand-to-hand transaction. Plus the cost of an illegal gun will be at least four times the retail value you see today. Plus the penalty of being caught selling illegal guns that are used in murder should be extreme.

Then they’ll get in their car and run over everyone. There’s no stopping the evil. Maybe it’s because of what I see and hear on a daily basis where it’s hard for the average person to understand.

 

[JupiterHawk]

Then they’ll get in their car and run over everyone. There’s no stopping the evil. Maybe it’s because of what I see and hear on a daily basis where it’s hard for the average person to understand.

I would like my chances of a car racing towards me vs. sitting in a theater and an AR pointed at me.

And I disagree with you on these kids. I think they feel empowered holding the weapon. Especially one that looks like an AR and is viewed as so masculine. In a weird way, it's like putting on a cape for a superhero. They fantasize daily about using a gun maybe first in self-defense but then to do evil things. I don't think mom's minivan will give them that power and fantasy. Look at the two photos of Lanza, the POS sandy hook shooter. He is empowered. Tell me I am wrong.

 

[JupiterHawk]

Then they’ll get in their car and run over everyone. There’s no stopping the evil. Maybe it’s because of what I see and hear on a daily basis where it’s hard for the average person to understand.

And appreciate your viewpoint, history and background. Albeit it's depressing to hear that.

 

[sober_teacher]

Then they will use handguns or shotguns. Or they’ll just steal a ar-15 and use that. Gun laws are mostly for those that abide by the laws. Criminals or people ready to become criminals don’t care about laws.

Well, if they’re forced to use hand guns or shotguns, if nothing else it likely lowers the death to due to smaller magazine capacity for most hand guns. And sure, some would still buy them illegally. But not all. We are lazy people. If nothing else, this would at least add a roadblock or two and stop the impulse buys.

Do you think they wouldn’t get their guns illegally if they didn’t purchase them legally? I’m ok raising the limits to 21 as long as you can’t enlist in the military until age 21 as well.

Again, some would, but it would stop others, or at least significantly slow them down, buying time for them to get caught.

If there was a 3 day wait do you think he wouldn’t have done it at a later time? If guns are banned he would just get one illegally.

If he bought it in a fit of rage as it appears, then making him wait even a couple of days might significantly reduce the chances of him doing so, yes. Make him cool his heels, have second thoughts.

also, why is there this narrative that someone, who from what I understand was a law-abiding citizen prior to this, or at least many of these other shooters were, would just magically know where to buy guns illegally? They’re not exactly setting up in parking lots.

there is of course, NO perfect solution and mass shootings will still happen. maybe the most tragic part of this is to say there’s nothing more to be done and throw our hands in the air about it. Other countries have addressed this, and either eliminated or significantly reduced the number of occurrences. But somehow that’s not possible here.

 

[Hawkman98]

Well, if they’re forced to use hand guns or shotguns, if nothing else it likely lowers the death to due to smaller magazine capacity for most hand guns. And sure, some would still buy them illegally. But not all. We are lazy people. If nothing else, this would at least add a roadblock or two and stop the impulse buys.

Again, some would, but it would stop others, or at least significantly slow them down, buying time for them to get caught.

If he bought it in a fit of rage as it appears, then making him wait even a couple of days might significantly reduce the chances of him doing so, yes. Make him cool his heels, have second thoughts.

also, why is there this narrative that someone, who from what I understand was a law-abiding citizen prior to this, or at least many of these other shooters were, would just magically know where to buy guns illegally? They’re not exactly setting up in parking lots.

there is of course, NO perfect solution and mass shootings will still happen. maybe the most tragic part of this is to say there’s nothing more to be done and throw our hands in the air about it. Other countries have addressed this, and either eliminated or significantly reduced the number of occurrences. But somehow that’s not possible here.

I certainly don’t have the answers. No one does. We just can’t sit and not do anything. There has to be changes to at least slow the mass shootings. I just don’t hold out hope.

 

[RileyHawk]

If they want to accomplish their mission yes. They’re plenty of guns out there and once there is a ban people will sell in the black market and make a killing.

This is complete nonsense and one of the reasons it is so hard to get anything done on gun control.

 

[RileyHawk]

I get that and that’s why I’m saying we have to try something. However, if you take all the guns away, they’ll find another way. They will do bombings or just go to a crowded area and run everyone over. Sound familiar?

No - not familiar. Very, very rare by comparison. That's the point. JFC.

 

[Daggerfoot]

One other angle of illegal access is machining your own gun parts at home. Im not talking about a 3D printed POS, I'm talking about quality machined parts out of metal. The machines are about $1500 and the digital plans are readily available. You can make a fully auto AR lower receiver while you take a dump. I'm also for tighter restrictions, but the black market and ghost gun market will thrive under those restrictions.

 

[Hawkman98]

This is complete nonsense and one of the reasons it is so hard to get anything done on gun control.

Because people have different opinions then you on hypothetical scenarios?

 

[Hawkman98]

No - not familiar. Very, very rare by comparison. That's the point. JFC.

JFC because guns aren’t banned!! If they were you’d see much more of these types of mass casualties.

 

[B1GDeal]

Evil will exist no matter what you do. Take all the guns in the US away there will still be mass killings. No one is stopping someone who wants to complete a killing.

It's probably true to an extent, but it certainly gets harder to do without guns.