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Here's the thing about guns....

I get that and that’s why I’m saying we have to try something. However, if you take all the guns away, they’ll find another way. They will do bombings or just go to a crowded area and run everyone over. Sound familiar?

Yes, some will. But we can enact restrictions that will reduce the number of these incidents. I'm certain of that.
 
It's probably true to an extent, but it certainly gets harder to do without guns.
You can take away all the guns, literally all of the known weapons tracked down by serial numbers. There will still be guns. Just last year, in my own neighborhood, the feds confiscated 40 AK-47 ghost guns...some full auto. They were making them with a machine as I descibed above. Again, I'm all for restrictions...but there will be access, and that will have to be addressed as well. A much more ellusive beast to wrangle.
 
You can take away all the guns, literally all of the known wrapons tracked down by serial numbers. There will still be guns. Just last year, in my own neighborhood, the feds confiscated 40 AK-47 ghost guns...some full auto. They were making them with a machine as I descibed above. Again, I'm all for restrictions...but there will be access, and that will have to be addressed as well. A much more ellusive beast to wrangle.
But there would still be fewer of them which means less opportunity. Also, if they are hard to get and find they become very expensive for criminals as well.
 
I certainly don’t have the answers. No one does. We just can’t sit and not do anything. There has to be changes to at least slow the mass shootings. I just don’t hold out hope.

We will never make any inroads if we don’t try SOMETHING.

You can take away all the guns, literally all of the known wrapons tracked down by serial numbers. There will still be guns. Just last year, in my own neighborhood, the feds confiscated 40 AK-47 ghost guns...some full auto. They were making them with a machine as I descibed above. Again, I'm all for restrictions...but there will be access, and that will have to be addressed as well. A much more ellusive beast to wrangle.

Step 1 to me is to at least start to restrict access. Another step would be to place additional emphasis on cracking down on illegal guns. A third imo is to hold gun companies responsible as well if/when large amounts of their guns hit the black market.
 
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It's probably true to an extent, but it certainly gets harder to do without guns.

Well of course but that’s not an option.
 
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We will never make any inroads if we don’t try SOMETHING.



Step 1 to me is to at least start to restrict access. Another step would be to place additional emphasis on cracking down on illegal guns. A third imo is to hold gun companies responsible as well if/when large amounts of their guns hit the black market.
I agree completely...it will slow the rate of occurence. The violence will never go away though...it's deeply rooted in this country's culture. It will take many generations to fade...it's sad, but true. I do think we need to try to do something now though...for our future generations.
 
Guns don’t need to be banned. Most gun owners follow safety protocols, understand the danger their weapon poses and take precautions. What we need to do is stop allowing gun manufacturers to crack back on regs to maximize sales. If we can make background checks required for all transactions with consistent enforcement and draconian punishment for those caught bypassing, plus red-flag laws to do our best to ensure that those who shouldn’t have them don’t get then, we’d go along way. I’d also add gun safety/training requirements to gun ownership and serious penalties for those who mis-handle their weapons. This would cut away a lot of the danger in the fringes.
This lib basically agrees with all of this.
 
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The great gun debate continues!
It’s our societies identity. America = Guns.
Look at the most popular action movies and first person shooter games. Guns are glorified. Guns make people feel stronger, safer and powerful. Guns aren’t going anywhere!
Humans have been killing each other forever, it’s never going to stop and the devices designed for killing have gotten more and more powerful.
It starts at the top and unfortunately the people in power care more about staying in power than they do the good of the people. I’d love to live in a world without armies and war, but that will never happen!
Only thing left to do is build a bunker and load up on weapons.
 
Then they’ll get in their car and run over everyone. There’s no stopping the evil. Maybe it’s because of what I see and hear on a daily basis where it’s hard for the average person to understand.

The Tulsa shooter was specifically targeting a Dr. who had treated him. You're saying without access to the gun he could have used his car as plan B fairly easily? How?
 
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I really hope that most are beginning to realize that this needs to be attacked from all sides to IMPROVE things (we unfortunately won't eliminate all killings by evil people).

I've done hunters safety as an adult, as I got into hunting later in life. It's shocking that we don't require a "gun safety" or hunters safety course to be completed before buying a gun. That is a bare minimum change, that MIGHT prevent some of these tragedies. Universal background checks and 30 day waits... I think that is a good change, if you are a law abiding gun buyer.... I don't see the big deal. The sale on high capacity mags should also be on the chopping block.

Mental health and the WHY also is a huge factor, but it so hard to put in tangible changes, like we would see in gun laws. This country has an attention span issue, so everyone wants change NOW and changing gun law probably has a more immediate impact (and I'm in favor of some of those changes).

I REALLY think social media, selfishness, isolation, violence in games/movies all have an impact on WHY this keeps happening, but how do you make changes in these areas and how do you measure success? Ban social media until 18?
 
The Tulsa shooter was specifically targeting a Dr. who had treated him. You're saying without access to the gun he could have used his car as plan B fairly easily? How?
I don't think plan B would have been to use his car. I think plan B would have been to obtain an illegal gun, or use another weapon. Both will become more and more accessible as restrictions tighten. It's basic economics...the supply will increase, suppliers will increase, because demand will remain. The demand is the problem...a much more complex issue.
 
You’re one of the few that get it. The problem is with those that have evil inside them and will conduct these acts regardless of gun laws. They will get the job done.
No I’m not against trying things to reduce the issue, but those with evil will still prevail.
I like that you participate and your perspective. I will say that you should talk to older deputies and ask them about the days before seatbelts and airbags. We accepted a lot of needless deaths on the roads. Cars got better. Roads were made better. We can do better with guns.
There will always be evil, but allowing unfettered access to guns can be changed. It can be done without impeding gun ownership by lawful people.
 
You could completely ban all gun sales right now and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. There are guns everywhere in America. If the drug war taught us anything, it's that people are going get what they want to get, and banning stuff just makes people want that forbidden thing even more.

Making guns harder to acquire isn't going to do squat. We need to figure out WHY our culture is so obsessed with shooting people.
Very few people want to ban all gun sales. There are clearly certain types of guns that have caused more harm than others. AR15's, for instance. Start with gun buy backs with no questions asked, that will get a few. Confiscate and destroy any used in commission of crimes or possessed by felons. Over time, it will reduce the number of the most dangerous guns. I recently listened to a podcast interviewing ER surgeons and what they said across the board is over the last number of years the difference they are seeing is the number of shots one person takes and the severity of the would caused by high caliber ammunition.

"Variations of the AR-15 were used in this month's massacre at a Buffalo supermarket; at a Texas Walmart in 2019; a Florida high school in 2018; a Texas church and a Las Vegas concert in 2017; and Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. The AR-15 style weapon is the most popular rifle in America with well over 11 million. And they are rarely used in crime. But, the AR-15 is the weapon of choice of the worst mass murderers. AR-15 ammunition travels up to three times the speed of sound. And as we first showed you in 2018, we're going to slow that down - so you can see why the AR-15's high velocity ammo is the fear of every american emergency room."
 
Very few people want to ban all gun sales. There are clearly certain types of guns that have caused more harm than others. AR15's, for instance. Start with gun buy backs with no questions asked, that will get a few. Confiscate and destroy any used in commission of crimes or possessed by felons. Over time, it will reduce the number of the most dangerous guns. I recently listened to a podcast interviewing ER surgeons and what they said across the board is over the last number of years the difference they are seeing is the number of shots one person takes and the severity of the would caused by high caliber ammunition.

"Variations of the AR-15 were used in this month's massacre at a Buffalo supermarket; at a Texas Walmart in 2019; a Florida high school in 2018; a Texas church and a Las Vegas concert in 2017; and Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. The AR-15 style weapon is the most popular rifle in America with well over 11 million. And they are rarely used in crime. But, the AR-15 is the weapon of choice of the worst mass murderers. AR-15 ammunition travels up to three times the speed of sound. And as we first showed you in 2018, we're going to slow that down - so you can see why the AR-15's high velocity ammo is the fear of every american emergency room."

It's not just the caliber, but the ammo itself. Target rounds will just go through you, leaving a little hole. Compare and contrast with defense rounds that are specifically manufactured to create damage to the object or target that it hits.
 
You could completely ban all gun sales right now and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. There are guns everywhere in America. If the drug war taught us anything, it's that people are going get what they want to get, and banning stuff just makes people want that forbidden thing even more.

Making guns harder to acquire isn't going to do squat. We need to figure out WHY our culture is so obsessed with shooting people.

Actually if we could do that it might do a small amount of good immediately in terms of reducing violence but the real payoff would be decades down the line.

Eventually if you can't buy a new gun or get the parts for existing guns they will break down and no longer be useable.

Now of course banning all gun sales isn't politically feasible nor do I think it would be fitting with our culture. But laws do in fact work because at the very least they can make it harder for a bad person to obtain a gun and a lot of times just making it harder to do will prevent something.

That's why we lock our doors. Not because locking your doors is going to stop someone who is determined to break into your house, but it stops people who arn't as determined.

Think about it this way, one of the big predictors of completed suicide is easy access to a gun. Now is this because people who have easy access to guns are more suicidal? No. It's because if something really tough hits you, easy access to a gun makes it easy to kill yourself without stopping to think about it. Someone going through the same thing without easy access to a gun has to find another method. Now this isn't going to stop anyone determined to kill themselves but someone who's less determined might stop and reconsider. And it happens often enough to make a statistical difference.

You would be surprised how many bad things can be prevented by simply making it a little harder to do.
 
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Actually if we could do that it might do a small amount of good immediately in terms of reducing violence but the real payoff would be decades down the line.

Eventually if you can't buy a new gun or get the parts for existing guns they will break down and no longer be useable.

Now of course banning all gun sales isn't politically feasible nor do I think it would be fitting with our culture. But laws do in fact work because at the very least they can make it harder for a bad person to obtain a gun and a lot of times just making it harder to do will prevent something.

That's why we lock our doors. Not because locking your doors is going to stop someone who is determined to break into your house, but it stops people who arn't as determined.

Think about it this way, one of the big predictors of completed suicide is easy access to a gun. Now is this because people who have easy access to guns are more suicidal? No. It's because if something really tough hits you, easy access to a gun makes it easy to kill yourself without stopping to think about it. Someone going through the same thing without easy access to a gun has to find another method. Now this isn't going to stop anyone determined to kill themselves but someone who's less determined might stop and reconsider. And it happens often enough to make a statistical difference.

You would be surprised how many bad things can be prevented by simply making it a little harder to do.
Again, you can make guns at home, for cheaper than you can buy a complete one in some instances. This mill is literally called the ghost gunner. Fully functional, mil-spec gun parts out of solid metal, no CNC experience needed, in the privacy of your own home. Stopping these machines with thousands of legitimate uses is impossible. They have tried to regulate the plans, but they are already out there...no going back in the tube for that toothpaste.

 
Again, you can make guns at home, for cheaper than you can buy a complete one in some instances. This mill is literally called the ghost gunner. Fully functional, mil-spec gun parts out of solid metal, no CNC experience needed, in the privacy of your own home. Stopping these machines with thousands of legitimate uses is impossible. They have tried to regulate the plans, but they are already out there...no going back in the tube for that toothpaste.

You're missing the point. Making a gun is a LOT harder than buying a gun.
 
You're missing the point. Making a gun is a LOT harder than buying a gun.
I get that, but my point is when you make guns more difficult to buy (someting I %100 support), it won't be. These machines will become a standard in the homes of gun lovers. Put a block of metal in it...hit a button and go plow your cousin. They can figure that out.
 
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I went to high school In Pensacola just a few years after busing based desegregation. The white kids mostly drove to school. Most of them had guns in their cars and trucks, on school property. There were quite a few riots at the time, and lots of race related fights. A few knives were brandished, but nobody was killed. Even though the white kids had guns, none were ever even brandished. This was the early 70's.

It seems that Columbine changed everything. It was extremely common in rural areas for nearly everyone to have a gun rack in their truck.

So what changed? Guns have been around since the beginning of the country.
 
We will never make any inroads if we don’t try SOMETHING.



Step 1 to me is to at least start to restrict access. Another step would be to place additional emphasis on cracking down on illegal guns. A third imo is to hold gun companies responsible as well if/when large amounts of their guns hit the black market.
Anymore I'm of the mind that we need to go after gun manufacturers first. As long as they are allowed to pump millions of guns onto the market, with no serious responsibility for abuse after, we will always fight an uphill battle.
 
I went to high school In Pensacola just a few years after busing based desegregation. The white kids mostly drove to school. Most of them had guns in their cars and trucks, on school property. There were quite a few riots at the time, and lots of race related fights. A few knives were brandished, but nobody was killed. Even though the white kids had guns, none were ever even brandished. This was the early 70's.

It seems that Columbine changed everything. It was extremely common in rural areas for nearly everyone to have a gun rack in their truck.

So what changed? Guns have been around since the beginning of the country.
I also went to high school pre Columbine and in a very rural school. Honestly, I don't recall anyone having gun racks in their cars. To be honest I don't even recall many kids driving trucks.
 
I also went to high school pre Columbine and in a very rural school. Honestly, I don't recall anyone having gun racks in their cars. To be honest I don't even recall many kids driving trucks.

My high school had guys who would go hunting early in the morning before school and would show up for class dressed in camos with dried deer blood on them.
 
I get that, but my point is when you make guns more difficult to buy (someting I %100 support), it won't be. These machines will become a standard in the homes of gun lovers. Put a block of metal in it...hit a button and go plow your cousin. They can figure that out.
There will be a small fraction of gun owners who do that. Even so, they're not the issue in the vast majority of cases.
 
Gun safety/training has been mentioned by several as a requirement that may stop these gun killings. Just not seeing how that would help. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this?
 
My high school had guys who would go hunting early in the morning before school and would show up for class dressed in camos with dried deer blood on them.
I just don't remember many kids driving trucks. Parents drove them but not kids. Everybody I can remember drove beat up cars or stuff like Trans Ams if they had the money.
 
Gun safety/training has been mentioned by several as a requirement that may stop these gun killings. Just not seeing how that would help. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this?

I think it may SLIGHTLY help. If there is one more barrier to prevent an "angry 18 year old" from running to the store and buying a gun.

They'd at least have to make the effort to attend a multiple week course. Unfortunately, a lot of the damn huntng safety courses are all online now, but might require a "field day" to prove that you can handle a gun safely.

This might not have a huge impact with the mass shootings, but requiring a little bit of knowledge/experience before buying a gun is a GOOD thing. In my opinion.
 
The Tulsa shooter was specifically targeting a Dr. who had treated him. You're saying without access to the gun he could have used his car as plan B fairly easily? How?
At face value, as I don't know your opinion, this is why real gun legislation will likely never happen. Your statement would appear to mean that you want to ban all guns. I mean, if your target is one individual it really doesn't matter what type of gun you use right?
 
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Why have speed limits or DUI laws? People can just break them anyways?
 
We can easily implement 1990s bans again and raise the age of purchase of an AR-15 and it would already make a difference. The USA is a worldwide embarrassment.
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