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Hillary "gays shouldn't lose their jobs and women should be paid the same"

The Tradition

HB King
Apr 23, 2002
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These laws are already on the books, Hill.

The first bill Obama signed into law was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

GBLTs can't be fired because of who they love based on an EEOC re-interpretation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964's prohibition on sex discrimination and supporting court decisions.

If she wants to be "progressive" maybe she should solve a problem that hasn't already been codified into law already?
 
Honest question. Are you saying because there are laws in place, it's not a problem?
 
there were laws in place before the aca that obozo left out so he could sell his sham of a plan

the dems have a record of making up crisis stuff so they can swoop in and save the day

black lives matter is another one, we had racism basically subdued till obozo needed to bring it back, so he could swoop in and save the day
 
Honest question. Are you saying because there are laws in place, it's not a problem?

I'm saying the laws are already in place, and those who feel discriminated against can already seek relief under them.

What would Hillary do further to make it "no longer a problem"?
 
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I once fired a gay with severe attendance problems.

Was I in the wrong?
 
I once fired a gay with severe attendance problems.

Was I in the wrong?

If he can point to a straight guy with severe attendance problems who didn't get fired, then yes, you're a candidate for a wallet extraction.
 
I once fired a gay with severe attendance problems.

Was I in the wrong?
No, but I have worked at places where gays and minorities were excluded from employment, and women need not apply for anything other than entry level work. This is not ancient history in the US. Discrimination still happens.
 
No, but I have worked at places where gays and minorities were excluded from employment, and women need not apply for anything other than entry level work. This is not ancient history in the US. Discrimination still happens.

Anecdotal.
 
I'm saying the laws are already in place, and those who feel discriminated against can already seek relief under them.

What would Hillary do further to make it "no longer a problem"?
I think you saw a move by Obama last week to start collecting data about contractors with federal ties, and that's a nice start. We both know laws are on the books, but why aren't they being enforced? Is it because lack of information or a pervasive attitude amongst business owners to ignore the law?
 
No, but I have worked at places where gays and minorities were excluded from employment, and women need not apply for anything other than entry level work. This is not ancient history in the US. Discrimination still happens.

You should have made a big deal about your opposition to such discriminatory practices. That way, you can hit the jackpot when they fire you, too.
 
No, but I have worked at places where gays and minorities were excluded from employment, and women need not apply for anything other than entry level work. This is not ancient history in the US. Discrimination still happens.
you played football at the nfl level? in 1953?
 
Yep, the only time anyone has ever been denied an employment opportunity in the US since 1967 due to who they are.

I'm sure it's not.

But, as has been mentioned, how much more illegal do you want to make it?
 
I'm sure it's not.

But, as has been mentioned, how much more illegal do you want to make it?
I have never said I want it more illegal. I want it targeted and enforced. I want the business owners who discriminate to go to jail.
 
IT%27S+NOT+FASCISM+WHEN+WE+DO+IT.png
 
You raise a good point. I don't honestly know, but maybe it still happens quite a bit and is not being enforced as often as it could be, for a lot of reasons. The victim doesn't understand their rights, doesn't know how to do something, etc.

I'm not sure how long rape has been illegal, but I bet a higher percentage are reported now than 50 years ago. Hell, probably 15 years ago.

The President is probably in a position to affect these things, to ensure the existing laws are enforced. That's what everyone says Obama should do on gun control, enforce the laws that exist instead of passing new laws... I would never question the Pubs, if they say it can be done, it can be done.
 
These laws are already on the books, Hill.

The first bill Obama signed into law was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

GBLTs can't be fired because of who they love based on an EEOC re-interpretation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964's prohibition on sex discrimination and supporting court decisions.

If she wants to be "progressive" maybe she should solve a problem that hasn't already been codified into law already?
LGBTs do not have the rights you think we do. But I'm pleased you think we should. What we have now is some executive orders acting to stretch old laws to protect us if we get a friendly judge to agree. What we want is an actual law protecting us. A con should understand the difference.
 
I have never said I want it more illegal. I want it targeted and enforced. I want the business owners who discriminate to go to jail.

But you don't want people who commit non-violent crimes to go to jail. This is a non-violent crime. Perhaps a fine or a slap on the wrist.

I just think jail is too harsh for this "crime", don't you?
 
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LGBTs do not have the rights you think we do. But I'm pleased you think we should. What we have now is some executive orders acting to stretch old laws to protect us if we get a friendly judge to agree. What we want is an actual law protecting us. A con should understand the difference.


Employers and employees often have questions about whether discrimination related to LGBT status is prohibited under the laws the EEOC enforces. While Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 does not explicitly include sexual orientation or gender identity in its list of protected bases, the Commission, consistent with case law from the Supreme Court and other courts, interprets the statute's sex discrimination provision as prohibiting discrimination against employees on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.

The Commission's Strategic Enforcement Plan (SEP), adopted by a bipartisan vote in December of 2012, lists "coverage of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender individuals under Title VII's sex discrimination provisions, as they may apply" as an enforcement priority for FY2013-2016. This enforcement priority is consistent with positions the Commission has taken in recent years regarding the intersection of LGBT-related discrimination and Title VII's prohibition on sex discrimination.

In 2012, the EEOC held that discrimination against an individual because that person is transgender (also known as gender identity discrimination) is discrimination because of sex and therefore is prohibited under Title VII. See Macy v. Department of Justice, EEOC Appeal No. 0120120821 (April 20, 2012). The Commission has also held that discrimination against an individual because of that person's sexual orientation is discrimination because of sex and therefore prohibited under Title VII. SeeDavid Baldwin v. Dep't of Transportation, EEOC Appeal No. 0120133080 (July 15, 2015).

Consistent with case law from the Supreme Court and other courts, the Commission takes the position that discrimination against an individual because that person is transgender is a violation of Title VII's prohibition of sex discrimination in employment. Therefore, the EEOC's district, field, area and local offices will accept and investigate charges from individuals who believe they have been discriminated against because of transgender status (or because of gender identity or a gender transition).

The Commission also takes the position, consistent with case law from the Supreme Court and other courts referenced at the previous link, that discrimination against an individual because of that person's sexual orientation is a violation of Title VII. The Commission accepts and investigates charges alleging sexual-orientation discrimination in employment.

Charge Data
In January 2013, the EEOC began tracking information on charges filed alleging discrimination related to gender identity and/or sexual orientation. In the final three quarters of FY 2013 (January through September), EEOC received 643 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination related to sexual orientation and 147 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination based on gender identity/transgender status. In FY 2014, the EEOC received 918 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination related to sexual orientation and 202 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination based on gender identity/transgender status. For the first two quarters of FY 2015, EEOC received 505 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination related to sexual orientation and 112 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination based on gender identity/transgender status.

Litigation Activity
The Commission has begun to file LGBT-related lawsuits under Title VII challenging alleged sex discrimination.

  • EEOC v. Lakeland Eye Clinic, P.A. (M.D. Fla. Civ. No. 8:14-cv-2421-T35 AEP filed Sept. 25, 2014). The EEOC sued Lakeland Eye Clinic, a Florida-based organization of health care professionals, alleging that it discriminated based on sex in violation of Title VII by firing an employee because she is transgender, because she was transitioning from male to female, and/or because she did not conform to the employer's gender-based expectations, preferences, or stereotypes. The EEOC's lawsuit alleged the employee performed her duties satisfactorily throughout her employment. However, after she began to present as a woman and informed the clinic she was transgender, Lakeland fired her. On April 9, 2015, the U.S. District Court in Tampa approved an agreement in which Lakeland Eye Clinic will pay $150,000 to settle the lawsuit. Lakeland also agreed to implement a new gender discrimination policy and to provide training to its management and employees regarding transgender/gender stereotype discrimination.
  • EEOC v. R.G. & G.R. Harris Funeral Homes Inc. (E.D. Mich. Civ. No. 2:14-cv-13710-SFC-DRG filed Sept. 25, 2014). The EEOC sued Detroit-based R.G. & G.R. Harris Funeral Homes Inc., alleging that it discriminated based on sex in violation of Title VII by firing a Garden City, Mich., funeral director/embalmer because she is transgender, because she was transitioning from male to female, and/or because she did not conform to the employer's gender-based expectations, preferences, or stereotypes. The lawsuit alleges that an individual had been employed by Harris as a funeral Director/Embalmer since October 2007 and had always adequately performed the duties of that position. In 2013, the worker gave Harris a letter explaining she was undergoing a gender transition from male to female, and would soon start to present (e.g., dress) in appropriate business attire at work, consistent with her gender identity as a woman. Two weeks later, Harris's owner fired the transgender employee, telling her that what she was "proposing to do" was unacceptable.
Additionally the Commission has filed several amicus briefs and successfully conciliated charges involving these issues. A more detailed discussion of the Commission's lawsuits, amicus briefs and conciliations is available here.

http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/wysk/enforcement_protections_lgbt_workers.cfm
 
These laws are already on the books, Hill.

The first bill Obama signed into law was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

GBLTs can't be fired because of who they love based on an EEOC re-interpretation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964's prohibition on sex discrimination and supporting court decisions.

If she wants to be "progressive" maybe she should solve a problem that hasn't already been codified into law already?

Women actually get paid more then men in engineering careers.
 
Employers and employees often have questions about whether discrimination related to LGBT status is prohibited under the laws the EEOC enforces. While Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 does not explicitly include sexual orientation or gender identity in its list of protected bases, the Commission, consistent with case law from the Supreme Court and other courts, interprets the statute's sex discrimination provision as prohibiting discrimination against employees on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.

The Commission's Strategic Enforcement Plan (SEP), adopted by a bipartisan vote in December of 2012, lists "coverage of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender individuals under Title VII's sex discrimination provisions, as they may apply" as an enforcement priority for FY2013-2016. This enforcement priority is consistent with positions the Commission has taken in recent years regarding the intersection of LGBT-related discrimination and Title VII's prohibition on sex discrimination.

In 2012, the EEOC held that discrimination against an individual because that person is transgender (also known as gender identity discrimination) is discrimination because of sex and therefore is prohibited under Title VII. See Macy v. Department of Justice, EEOC Appeal No. 0120120821 (April 20, 2012). The Commission has also held that discrimination against an individual because of that person's sexual orientation is discrimination because of sex and therefore prohibited under Title VII. SeeDavid Baldwin v. Dep't of Transportation, EEOC Appeal No. 0120133080 (July 15, 2015).

Consistent with case law from the Supreme Court and other courts, the Commission takes the position that discrimination against an individual because that person is transgender is a violation of Title VII's prohibition of sex discrimination in employment. Therefore, the EEOC's district, field, area and local offices will accept and investigate charges from individuals who believe they have been discriminated against because of transgender status (or because of gender identity or a gender transition).

The Commission also takes the position, consistent with case law from the Supreme Court and other courts referenced at the previous link, that discrimination against an individual because of that person's sexual orientation is a violation of Title VII. The Commission accepts and investigates charges alleging sexual-orientation discrimination in employment.

Charge Data
In January 2013, the EEOC began tracking information on charges filed alleging discrimination related to gender identity and/or sexual orientation. In the final three quarters of FY 2013 (January through September), EEOC received 643 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination related to sexual orientation and 147 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination based on gender identity/transgender status. In FY 2014, the EEOC received 918 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination related to sexual orientation and 202 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination based on gender identity/transgender status. For the first two quarters of FY 2015, EEOC received 505 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination related to sexual orientation and 112 charges that included allegations of sex discrimination based on gender identity/transgender status.

Litigation Activity
The Commission has begun to file LGBT-related lawsuits under Title VII challenging alleged sex discrimination.

  • EEOC v. Lakeland Eye Clinic, P.A. (M.D. Fla. Civ. No. 8:14-cv-2421-T35 AEP filed Sept. 25, 2014). The EEOC sued Lakeland Eye Clinic, a Florida-based organization of health care professionals, alleging that it discriminated based on sex in violation of Title VII by firing an employee because she is transgender, because she was transitioning from male to female, and/or because she did not conform to the employer's gender-based expectations, preferences, or stereotypes. The EEOC's lawsuit alleged the employee performed her duties satisfactorily throughout her employment. However, after she began to present as a woman and informed the clinic she was transgender, Lakeland fired her. On April 9, 2015, the U.S. District Court in Tampa approved an agreement in which Lakeland Eye Clinic will pay $150,000 to settle the lawsuit. Lakeland also agreed to implement a new gender discrimination policy and to provide training to its management and employees regarding transgender/gender stereotype discrimination.
  • EEOC v. R.G. & G.R. Harris Funeral Homes Inc. (E.D. Mich. Civ. No. 2:14-cv-13710-SFC-DRG filed Sept. 25, 2014). The EEOC sued Detroit-based R.G. & G.R. Harris Funeral Homes Inc., alleging that it discriminated based on sex in violation of Title VII by firing a Garden City, Mich., funeral director/embalmer because she is transgender, because she was transitioning from male to female, and/or because she did not conform to the employer's gender-based expectations, preferences, or stereotypes. The lawsuit alleges that an individual had been employed by Harris as a funeral Director/Embalmer since October 2007 and had always adequately performed the duties of that position. In 2013, the worker gave Harris a letter explaining she was undergoing a gender transition from male to female, and would soon start to present (e.g., dress) in appropriate business attire at work, consistent with her gender identity as a woman. Two weeks later, Harris's owner fired the transgender employee, telling her that what she was "proposing to do" was unacceptable.
Additionally the Commission has filed several amicus briefs and successfully conciliated charges involving these issues. A more detailed discussion of the Commission's lawsuits, amicus briefs and conciliations is available here.

http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/wysk/enforcement_protections_lgbt_workers.cfm
Yes, this is exactly what I told you. It's not a law specifically protecting LGBT rights. That's what we want. It's not a hard point to understand why we don't want to rely on executive policy that can change the moment the EEOC is under different orders.
 
Yes, this is exactly what I told you. It's not a law specifically protecting LGBT rights. That's what we want. It's not a hard point to understand why we don't want to rely on executive policy that can change the moment the EEOC is under different orders.

It's not "executive policy"... It's the law of the land. Be happy, you won. You don't have to dance in the end zone, too.
 
It's not "executive policy"... It's the law of the land. Be happy, you won. You don't have to dance in the end zone, too.
I don't think so. What you posted says an executive enforcement agency has decided to reinterpret laws from the 60's to cover gays. That policy can be changed at any time. It does not say the 1960's laws were amended. But if you think you are correct, link us the law in the U.S. Code that outlaws employment discrimination for LGBT folks. So far the evidence you linked supports my view.
 
I don't think so. What you posted says an executive enforcement agency has decided to reinterpret laws from the 60's to cover gays. That policy can be changed at any time.

No it can't, because the EEOC's positions have been validated by the courts.

That's called "precedent" and can't be changed at any time.

There is no Roe v. Wade law. This is the same thing.
 
No it can't, because the EEOC's positions have been validated by the courts.

That's called "precedent" and can't be changed at any time.

There is no Roe v. Wade law. This is the same thing.
Yes, precedents can change or maybe more correctly be off set. But more importantly the EEOC isn't bound to enforce precedent if they no longer interpret the law accordingly. The info you linked says flat out the EEOC is choosing to interpret old laws broadly to cover gays. We both know those laws don't say anything about gays. I want to remove that ambiguity. I want an affirmative law enshrining my rights specifically spelled out. You asked what more we wanted and I'm telling you.
 
Yes, precedents can change or maybe more correctly be off set. But more importantly the EEOC isn't bound to enforce precedent if they no longer interpret the law accordingly. The info you linked says flat out the EEOC is choosing to interpret old laws broadly to cover gays. We both know those laws don't say anything about gays. I want to remove that ambiguity. I want an affirmative law enshrining my rights specifically spelled out. You asked what more we wanted and I'm telling you.

The EEOC doesn't have to enforce it. The barn door is open and can't be closed. File your charge, if the EEOC isn't doing anything, then request your "Right to Sue Letter" and go to court.
 
The EEOC doesn't have to enforce it. The barn door is open and can't be closed. File your charge, if the EEOC isn't doing anything, then request your "Right to Sue Letter" and go to court.
And if I got a friendly judge and a clever attorney maybe I would win. But as I have said multiple times, I want it to be more clear. How can you object to wanting a clear law that spells out civil rights?
 
And if I got a friendly judge and a clever attorney maybe I would win. But as I have said multiple times, I want it to be more clear. How can you object to wanting a clear law that spells out civil rights?

I object to an ever-expanding list of protected classes. You're arguing that you should be more equal than other people, with a special protection just for you.
 
I object to an ever-expanding list of protected classes. You're arguing that you should be more equal than other people, with a special protection just for you.
How? It would be a special protection just for you too. It would make sure I can't fire breeders.
 
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