History Thread #5
- Thread starter Jimmy McGill
- Start date
I always assumed it was the 99 Luftballons song, I dont see that as an option, was I wrong?
If Gorbachev was as bloodthirsty as Stalin or Putin there’d still be a USSR the same way we still have a People’s Republic of China and a Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
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What is the scam?
They removed troops from Germany.
Dissolved the Warsaw Pact.
Cut off Cuba
What was their prize?
US troops never leaving Europe and NATO waging war against their historic ally Serbia to partition the country.
Can’t imagine why anyone in Russia would thus view the U.S. (and hence NATO) with suspicion after the subsequent lies and interventions in Libya and Iraq?
Can’t imagine why NATO (read: US) bases on the border constitute a genuine strategic risk/threat?
It’s like someone telling you they can’t read a map. I can’t picture what they’re failing to picture.
Like a moth to the flame.
Here is a great opinion write up that kind of aligns how I see it looking back at history 1945-2024.
The ‘Cold War’ as we know it is a myth, yet its underlying conflict never ended
We mistakenly view both 1991 and 1945 as unique historic moments, not as changes within a continuous and ongoing Eurasian competition.
thehill.com
I've been watching Turning Point - Cold War, I really think that if Gorby hadn't come to power, we might all be dead.
There were dozens of false attacks in each sides detection systems, and only individual humans saved us.
Yeah. Some amazing stories. Everyone should know who Stanislav Petrov is and have a drink in his memory on his birthday.
You’re wasting your time: geopolitics is a 3D game of Chess while these people can only comprehend issues as complex as Candy Crush.
That is who I watched last night. He went with common sense rather than following protocol. "If the U.S. is going to attack us, surely they wouldn't do it with so few missles"
Uhhhh…excuse me. WTF?
No doubt it scared the shite out of the Cubans and Nicaraguans.
Günter Schabowski. He was the E German official that misunderstood the new travel regulations and announced, mistakenly, that Germans were free to travel through the gates between E and W Berlin and Germany. It confused the hell out of both sides for hours, by the time the mistake was figured out, it was too late. E Germany started pouring into W Germany.
His stupidity, and the failure of his leadership to properly communicate new travel regulations, literally opened the flood gates. Cheers to Günter!!!
His stupidity, and the failure of his leadership to properly communicate new travel regulations, literally opened the flood gates. Cheers to Günter!!!
I found that part rather amusing. He inadvertently put the final nail in the coffin.
I was there (in W Germany on the border). It started off as the scariest "WTF is happening?" in modern history (we actually thought WWIII was starting) then turned into something hilarious. Some dumbass' misunderstanding of a communique ended a country.
At like 1900 hours the night it happened, we got calls from W German troops asking if people were at the gates in our sector. Our guys were like "Yeah, a lot...WTF is going on?"
No one had told us. We found out an hour later or so that W German news was broadcasting excerpts of the news conference and that E German TV/radio had shown it live. E German citizens had, literally, heard his statement, walked out of wherever they were and headed directly to the nearest border crossing demanding to be let through.
At places, the E German troops were more confused than us, so they opened the gates. Hell, we saw a few unarmed E German troops, in uniform, walking around. None of them knew where to go or what to do, they all just knew they didn't want to be in E Germany any more.
Most bizarre thing I've ever witnessed. It's not often you participate in something that you know immediately will be talked about for generations. That was one.
That is amazing. You should write about it. I mean it. I keep telling myself to put my experiences down to paper, just not sure it makes a full book.
Thanks again. I got your six.
I think it was a combination of factors. But I chose the first option (more about the solidarity movement) because there needs to be a critical mass of people who want change and are willing to stand up for it for there to be any chance for major changes to occur. The systemic problems due to inefficiencies and corruption were mounting, and Gorbachev saw the writing on the wall. Whatever Gorbachev was or wasn't, he was at the very least enough of a humanitarian to facilitate a bloodless end to the USSR, which is pretty incredible when you think about it.
I wouldn't have included it if I didn't think it was a viable response. I agree with you about mass of people wanting change.
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