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Holiday Bowl/Citrus Bowl/Red Box

AuroraHawk said:
Easy answer. You have OSU, PSU, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota and Iowa all with 9+ wins. You also have a contract with various bowls which precludes the Outback and Gator from selecting a team that has played in that bowl once in the previous 6 years. That leaves Citrus, Holiday and Redbox for Iowa and potentially Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa competing for those three spots. Take Wisconsin out of the mix and Iowa won't be in the Redbox. Put Wisconsin in the mix and Iowa's in the Redbox because . . . none of the 9 wins and 2 of the three losses were to Wisconsin and Michigan. I don't like it but the reality is that Iowa didn't take care of matters on the field against those two teams and both games were winnable.
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How does the Big Ten put themselves into a box with these bowl arrangements where one of their 9 win teams gets relegated to the Redbox Bowl? Ridiculous. Why even have an arrangement with this bowl? I'd prefer the Sun Bowl, Music City Bowl, or pretty much anything else (except Detroit and Boise) than the Redbox.
 
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SoDakHawk said:
How does the Big Ten put themselves into a box with these bowl arrangements where one of their 9 win teams gets relegated to the Redbox Bowl? Ridiculous. Why even have an arrangement with this bowl? I'd prefer the Sun Bowl, Music City Bowl, or pretty much anything else (except Detroit and Boise) than the Redbox.
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Because they want to give fans the chance to travel to different locations hoping it would help attendance. In other words they care about $$$ not how the teams perform on the field. I think it backfires on them this year.
 
MepoDawg# said:
Because they want to give fans the chance to travel to different locations hoping it would help attendance. In other words they care about $$$ not how the teams perform on the field. I think it backfires on them this year.
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Last time I remembered B1G bowl deals biting someone, it was Iowa in 1991 to the Holiday Bowl at 10-1. I suppose it’s happened to others, but I don’t remember those ;)
 
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iahawks10 said:
Agreed, and they deserve better. If Iowa falls to the Redbox at (9-3), then the B1G needs to reconsider its bowl alignments and contracts. That would be a complete joke.

I hope a back door deal works out to where another conference switches with the B1G (not likely) or they’re loose the rules “guidelines” and the Hawks make a better bowl. If it is in fact the Redbox, I can only imagine how bad the attendance is going to be.
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While I certainly agree that it is unfortunate that a 9-3 Iowa team could fall to the Redbox, I find it interesting that Iowa fans are being critical of the situation and want to blame the B1G conference.

There are 6 teams that are 9-3 or better in the B1G.

OSU - 12-0. They deserve a better bowl than Iowa. There can be no question about that.
PSU - 10-2. Beat Iowa head-to-head. Lost to OSU and to 10-2 Minnesota. They are ranked in the top 10 in the CFP. No rational person will claim that Iowa deserves a better bowl than PSU.
Wisconsin - 10-2. B1G West champs. Beat Iowa head-to-head. Only "real" hiccup is that they lost to Illinois. Again, no rational person would claim that Iowa deserves a better bowl than Wisconsin.
Michigan - 9-3. Beat Iowa head-to-head. Losses to Wisconsin, OSU and PSU. Can you make an argument that Iowa deserves a better bowl than Michigan? Sure. Is it a strong argument? Nope.
Minnesota - 10-2. The only team on this list that Iowa defeated head-to-head. Yes, the Gophers took advantage of a weak schedule but they also beat PSU head-to-head which Iowa did not do. Iowa is higher ranked in CFP than Minnesota. IMO, Iowa's argument for going to a better bowl than Minnesota is stronger than any of the other teams. That written, Minnesota is slotted to play in the Outback Bowl. If you want Iowa to return to Tampa to play in the Outback Bowl, you'll be the first person I've heard that wants that.

Bottom line? In the B1G bowl hierarchy, Iowa is, at best, 5th and, at worst, 6th. The B1Gs first six bowl affiliations are Rose, Citrus, Outback, Holiday, Gator and Redbox.

Again, I don't like the idea of Iowa falling to the Redbox at 9-3 but, given the performance of the other teams, it makes perfect sense. At least 4, if not 5 teams, have earned the right to be picked higher.
 
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AuroraHawk said:
For Iowa to necessarily avoid the Redbox, it needs an SEC team in the Orange Bowl, a B1G team in the Cotton Bowl with the Citrus Bowl being able to pick a B1G team.
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Bingo! If it comes down to SEC and B1G for the two Orange and Cotton spots, I feel confident powers that be will shape rankings to put Florida in Orange, so that ACC doesn’t get our Citrus bid. It’s overcoming OU/Baylor loser and possibly Utah for the Cotton that worries me. Rose isn’t required to take highest ranked B1G team, so if final rankings of those teams are Florida, PSU, Utah, Baylor/OU, Wisconsin maybe Rose can pick UW so that PSU is there for Cotton?
 
AuroraHawk said:
While I certainly agree that it is unfortunate that a 9-3 Iowa team could fall to the Redbox, I find it interesting that Iowa fans are being critical of the situation and want to blame the B1G conference.

There are 6 teams that are 9-3 or better in the B1G.

OSU - 12-0. They deserve a better bowl than Iowa. There can be no question about that.
PSU - 10-2. Beat Iowa head-to-head. Lost to OSU and to 10-2 Minnesota. They are ranked in the top 10 in the CFP. No rational person will claim that Iowa deserves a better bowl than PSU.
Wisconsin - 10-2. B1G West champs. Beat Iowa head-to-head. Only "real" hiccup is that they lost to Illinois. Again, no rational person would claim that Iowa deserves a better bowl than Wisconsin.
Michigan - 9-3. Beat Iowa head-to-head. Losses to Wisconsin, OSU and PSU. Can you make an argument that Iowa deserves a better bowl than Michigan? Sure. Is it a strong argument? Nope.
Minnesota - 10-2. The only team on this list that Iowa defeated head-to-head. Yes, the Gophers took advantage of a weak schedule but they also beat PSU head-to-head which Iowa did not do. Iowa is higher ranked in CFP than Minnesota. IMO, Iowa's argument for going to a better bowl than Minnesota is stronger than any of the other teams. That written, Minnesota is slotted to play in the Outback Bowl. If you want Iowa to return to Tampa to play in the Outback Bowl, you'll be the first person I've heard that wants that.

Bottom line? In the B1G bowl hierarchy, Iowa is, at best, 5th and, at worst, 6th. The B1Gs first six bowl affiliations are Rose, Citrus, Outback, Holiday, Gator and Redbox.

Again, I don't like the idea of Iowa falling to the Redbox at 9-3 but, given the performance of the other teams, it makes perfect sense. At least 4, if not 5 teams, have earned the right to be picked higher.
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Don’t think anyone’s saying we should be higher than 5 on that list, but that B1G should have done better for its 6th bowl than Pinstripe/Redbox. I actually think this is just a strange year. Usually B1G is sending a 7-5 team to Outback because no better team is available after NY6 and Citrus
 
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SoDakHawk said:
How does the Big Ten put themselves into a box with these bowl arrangements where one of their 9 win teams gets relegated to the Redbox Bowl? Ridiculous. Why even have an arrangement with this bowl? I'd prefer the Sun Bowl, Music City Bowl, or pretty much anything else (except Detroit and Boise) than the Redbox.
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Sun Bowl is ACC (any bowl eligible team that finishes #4 through #8) versus Pac12 (fifth choice). Sun Bowl chooses a Pac 12 team AFTER the Redbox Bowl chooses its Pac12 representative.

Sun Bowl pays $3.45M; Redbox pays $3.6M.

Sun Bowl is in El Paso. Redbox is in Santa Clara.

Hard to claim that the Sun Bowl is a more prestigious bowl than the Redbox. A tad less money, awful destination and an inferior Pac12 opponent.

As for Music City, they are part of the B1G contract with Gator Bowl. Each bowl gets 3 B1G teams in the 6 year deal. We are in year 6. Music City has hosted B1G team 3 times and a SEC twice. Unless the terms are waived and there appears to be no hint of this happening, the Music City Bowl gets a SEC team this year.
 
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In terms of TV viewership, it's probably a wash. The Holiday Bowl on a Friday night on FS1 or the Redbox Bowl on a Monday afternoon on the main FOX broadcast network.

Neither one draws much more than the fans of the particular teams playing in those bowls, because the casual fan seems to default to whatever bowl game is on ESPN.

Last year the Redbox on Fox had just under 3.8 million viewers, and the Holiday on FS1 had half that (1.8 million). The last time the Holiday Bowl drew over 2 million was in 2016, the last time it was on ESPN.
 
El Simbolo said:
Don’t think anyone’s saying we should be higher than 5 on that list, but that B1G should have done better for its 6th bowl than Pinstripe/Redbox. I actually think this is just a strange year. Usually B1G is sending a 7-5 team to Outback because no better team is available after NY6 and Citrus
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The bolded portion of your comment is the key. It is a "strange" year. And bowl tie-ins may not inure to Iowa's benefit this year. However, it would be extremely disingenuous to complain when the B1G's bowl tie-ins last year allowed for a 7-5 Iowa team to head to Tampa.

For those complaining that the Redbox shouldn't be 6th on the list, I'd be curious to not only know what bowl should the B1G have "locked in" but (a) the payout from that bowl and (b) why that bowl should not have contracted with the conference that it chose. In other words, if your answer is "Alamo" and its $7M+ payout, why would the Alamo think that it is better to take the 6th B1G team over either Pac12 #2 or Big 12 #3.

The Redbox bowl pays $3.6M per team . . . as the 6th B1G bowl affiliation.

The Liberty Bowl (Memphis) pays $4.3M as the 6th SEC bowl affiliation. So, yes, you could argue that the SEC's 6th bowl is better than the B1G's 6th bowl but . . . it's played in Memphis.

Looking at the other conferences, there is no way that you can claim that the Pac 12, Big 12 or ACC has better bowl arrangements than the B1G.
 
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And unfortunately, with this being the final year of the 6 year agreement, it's getting to the point where the bowls are painted into a corner on what schools they're allowed to take. So, Sunday afternoon is going to be a busy time for the conference to work with these bowls and get everything figured out. That's why at this point of the agreements, once you get past the Rose and Citrus, there's not a true pecking order. It becomes a matter of which schools haven't been to certain bowls, based on most wins.
 
Here's how College Football News breaks it down:

1. Rose Bowl vs. Pac-12

2. Citrus Bowl vs. ACC or SEC
– Agreement for Citrus is for five different teams in six years, so no Penn State, Minnesota or Michigan, if possible.

3. Outback Bowl vs. SEC
– Agreement is for five different teams in six years, so no Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan or Northwestern, if possible.

4. San Diego Country Credit Union Holiday Bowl vs. Pac-12
– Agreement is for five different teams in six years, so no Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern or Wisconsin, if possible.

5. TaxSlayer Bowl vs. SEC
-- no Iowa or Penn State, if possible.

New Era Pinstripe Bowl vs. ACC
– no Indiana, Iowa, Northwestern, Penn State or Wisconsin, if possible.

Redbox Bowl vs. Pac-12
– Agreement is for five different teams in six years, so no Indiana, Maryland, Michigan State, Nebraska or Purdue, if possible.
 
AuroraHawk said:
The bolded portion of your comment is the key. It is a "strange" year. And bowl tie-ins may not inure to Iowa's benefit this year. However, it would be extremely disingenuous to complain when the B1G's bowl tie-ins last year allowed for a 7-5 Iowa team to head to Tampa.

For those complaining that the Redbox shouldn't be 6th on the list, I'd be curious to not only know what bowl should the B1G have "locked in" but (a) the payout from that bowl and (b) why that bowl should not have contracted with the conference that it chose. In other words, if your answer is "Alamo" and its $7M+ payout, why would the Alamo think that it is better to take the 6th B1G team over either Pac12 #2 or Big 12 #3.

The Redbox bowl pays $3.6M per team . . . as the 6th B1G bowl affiliation.

The Liberty Bowl (Memphis) pays $4.3M as the 6th SEC bowl affiliation. So, yes, you could argue that the SEC's 6th bowl is better than the B1G's 6th bowl but . . . it's played in Memphis.

Looking at the other conferences, there is no way that you can claim that the Pac 12, Big 12 or ACC has better bowl arrangements than the B1G.
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Completely agree, and the new cycle is shaping up to be really good for the conference as well. The Las Vegas Bowl is going to be huge when it moves to the new stadium! Good to see the conference get in on that one!
 
AuroraHawk said:
Music City, they are part of the B1G contract with Gator Bowl. Each bowl gets 3 B1G teams in the 6 year deal. We are in year 6. Music City has hosted B1G team 3 times and a SEC twice. Unless the terms are waived and there appears to be no hint of this happening, the Music City Bowl gets a SEC team this year.
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Music City will be back to an annual relation with B1G next year :)
 
Michael1969 said:
Completely agree, and the new cycle is shaping up to be really good for the conference as well. The Las Vegas Bowl is going to be huge when it moves to the new stadium! Good to see the conference get in on that one!
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I assume the opponent is P12? I wonder which pick of the P12?
 
If the Redbox Bowl was called the Golden Gate Bowl or something like that, there’d probably be less heartburn on here ;) Just wait til we’re discussing Iowa’s chances for the Cheez-it Bowl next year
 
Michael1969 said:
In terms of TV viewership, it's probably a wash. The Holiday Bowl on a Friday night on FS1 or the Redbox Bowl on a Monday afternoon on the main FOX broadcast network.

Neither one draws much more than the fans of the particular teams playing in those bowls, because the casual fan seems to default to whatever bowl game is on ESPN.

Last year the Redbox on Fox had just under 3.8 million viewers, and the Holiday on FS1 had half that (1.8 million). The last time the Holiday Bowl drew over 2 million was in 2016, the last time it was on ESPN.
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Gee, let me see. Friday night Hawkeye game, beer in hand or Monday afternoon Hawkeye game while I'm at work. Which would I prefer? Yeah, I won't even watch the Redbox Bowl.
 
El Simbolo said:
I assume the opponent is P12? I wonder which pick of the P12?
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It's the Pac 12 for all 6 years. The Big 10 will be in the Vegas Bowl in 2021, 2023 and 2025...while the SEC will be in the Vegas Bowl in 2020, 2022 and 2024. The years the respective conference doesn't play in the Vegas Bowl, they'll play in the Belk Bowl.

The Vegas will pick 3rd from the Pac-12, after the Rose and Alamo. The Vegas had the 6th selection in the current cycle. The Vegas will be 4th in the pecking order in the Big 10 when the Big 10 doesn't send a team to the Orange. It's replacing the Holiday in the pecking order.
 
El Simbolo said:
Don’t think anyone’s saying we should be higher than 5 on that list, but that B1G should have done better for its 6th bowl than Pinstripe/Redbox. I actually think this is just a strange year. Usually B1G is sending a 7-5 team to Outback because no better team is available after NY6 and Citrus
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This! I’m not blaming anybody, but a 9-3 team going to the Redbox would be a complete joke. Anyway you slice it, a joke. Agree or disagree all you want.
 
El Simbolo said:
If the Redbox Bowl was called the Golden Gate Bowl or something like that, there’d probably be less heartburn on here ;) Just wait til we’re discussing Iowa’s chances for the Cheez-it Bowl next year
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Not true. The Redbox Bowl has had several names over the years and none of them are appealing because it’s a terrible bowl. Usually one reserved for those who are barely bowl eligible. Hell, the Redbox Bowl is probably the best name they’ve had.
 
I got Iowa in Citrus Bowl vs AUB - Could be Michigan or Bama here

Michigan Holiday bowl vs USC - Could be Iowa here

MN Outback Bowl vs Bama - Could be Penn State or Auburn here, MN to Gator Bowl

Penn State and Wisconsin in NY6 bowls

Illinois Red Box Bowl vs Cal
 
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MepoDawg# said:
How does Utah losing impact Iowa’s possible destination?
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It certainly does. I calculate our chances of avoiding the Redbox just went from 38% to 50/50. Basically, if LSU and Clemson win we’re very likely to Holiday or possibly Citrus as long as Florida stays above PSU or Wisconsin.
 
Its sounding like the Citrus is becoming more and more likely per twitter. Apparently Michigan is making overtures to the Holiday bowl and they’ll have an interesting matchup possibility against USC since Utah lost big tonight and likely won’t make a NY6 game. Having the Pac 12 at one bid in NY6 and no CFP was ideal to open up a slot for us potentially by having another B1G move up to NY6.
 
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What's working for Iowa's favor for the Citrus is many of the teams above them in the pecking order have already played in it during this cycle and by agreement really can't play in it (mainly Penn State, Michigan & Minnesota). And I don't see Wisconsin dropping that far after they've beaten 2 of those 3 teams.
 
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Just read an article putting Notre Dame against ISU in the Camping World Bowl. Wow, if that happens and we end up in the Redbox, well that would be a kick in the nuts.
 
MepoDawg# said:
San Fran is off the board. Illinois is going there.
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If that’s the case, then B1G office knows that B1G will have 3 teams in a NY6 game not named Orange, or that our Gator ban isn’t set in stone, or the trade for Music City is real, or Holiday wants us over Michigan. Because no way Iowa is falling to Pinstripe or Quicklane.
 
El Simbolo said:
According to the article...
https://collegefootballtalk.nbcspor...ois-headed-to-redbox-bowl-most-likely-vs-cal/

IU must be bumping up from Pinstripe to Gator if that’s available???
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That would seem logical. It come down to how much the conference sticks to its "can't go to" agreements. That's how all of this has changed. There used to be a true pecking order and when it came to a bowl's turn they would extend an invitation to a school, but now everything's in the conference's hand to hammer things out with the bowls.
 
IowaNiceHawk said:
The better east?? In terms of Won-Loss, this year, the
2 divisions were almost identical. Not much difference at all.
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As they have been for years. ONE team, and ONE team only, OSU changes the supposed narrative of which division is tougher, and some years even then not by much. This year, OSU is clearly the best team, by a wide margin, so the east looks that much tougher.
 
SoDakHawk said:
How does the Big Ten put themselves into a box with these bowl arrangements where one of their 9 win teams gets relegated to the Redbox Bowl? Ridiculous. Why even have an arrangement with this bowl? I'd prefer the Sun Bowl, Music City Bowl, or pretty much anything else (except Detroit and Boise) than the Redbox.
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Nine wins doesn't matter; Big Ten wins matter! Possible relegation to the Redbox Bowl is because of finishing 6th in the Big Ten behind OH, PSU, MINN, WIS & MICH. Another reason KF bonus $$$ should be based on Big Ten wins, and not overall wins.

We should also be grateful that OSU is in the final four, or we could end up in Detroit.
 
If Iowa had been 9-3 (with losses to Miami-Ohio, ISU, and Midd. Tenn.) they'd be playing tonight for a trip to the Rose Bowl.
 
Wow... taking on Auburn in the Citrus would be quite the challenge. Good for the program win or loss. Just hope it would not get too out of hand.
 
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